Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
Author Message
Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 16,574
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 720
I Root For: California
Location: TROS
Post: #41
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think a big problem with the Big East has been that some of the C7 schools really pushed to stay at 10 and have the round robin. They like getting the Georgetown/Nova/St John's games guaranteed every year. I think that kind of thinking has hurt the Big East.

If I were programming FS1, that's what I'd want -- G-town, Nova, StJ playing each other twice a year. Replacing one of the annual G-town/Nova games with G-town/Saint Louis due to expansion... that's not going to help FS1's ratings for BE games.
09-28-2015 11:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wilkie01 Offline
Cards Prognosticater
Jersey Retired

Posts: 26,758
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 1072
I Root For: Louisville
Location: Planet Red
Post: #42
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
St, Louis makes sense because it adds a new TV market, while having history with DePaul and Marquette.

Dayton is to close to Xavier and does not add any TV market value. I think they are a no go.

VCU is a good choice and a competitive basketball program. They are the second best basketball program in the state of Virginia behind UVA. They would add a good share of the Virginia TV market.

So I would add St.Louis and VCU. 07-coffee3
09-28-2015 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 37,149
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 377
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #43
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think a big problem with the Big East has been that some of the C7 schools really pushed to stay at 10 and have the round robin. They like getting the Georgetown/Nova/St John's games guaranteed every year. I think that kind of thinking has hurt the Big East.

If I were programming FS1, that's what I'd want -- G-town, Nova, StJ playing each other twice a year. Replacing one of the annual G-town/Nova games with G-town/Saint Louis due to expansion... that's not going to help FS1's ratings for BE games.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying for schools like Providence or Seton Hall- they like getting Georgetown/Nova/St John's guaranteed 2x. That wasn't happening with the 16 team Big East.
09-28-2015 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,176
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 208
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #44
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?
09-28-2015 11:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 37,149
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 377
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #45
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?

Um, the Big East in 2 years has gotten 4 and 6 bids. I think that qualifies as a multi bid conference.
09-28-2015 11:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,176
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 208
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #46
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?

Um, the Big East in 2 years has gotten 4 and 6 bids. I think that qualifies as a multi bid conference.

I was responding to the Shockers' fan that Wichita State would fit into the AAC. AAC really have not gotten multi bids. Since the Big East do not want public schools, Wichita's only hope is MWC.
09-28-2015 11:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 16,574
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 720
I Root For: California
Location: TROS
Post: #47
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think a big problem with the Big East has been that some of the C7 schools really pushed to stay at 10 and have the round robin. They like getting the Georgetown/Nova/St John's games guaranteed every year. I think that kind of thinking has hurt the Big East.

If I were programming FS1, that's what I'd want -- G-town, Nova, StJ playing each other twice a year. Replacing one of the annual G-town/Nova games with G-town/Saint Louis due to expansion... that's not going to help FS1's ratings for BE games.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying for schools like Providence or Seton Hall- they like getting Georgetown/Nova/St John's guaranteed 2x. That wasn't happening with the 16 team Big East.

True, that's another factor in favor of not expanding.
09-28-2015 11:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 37,149
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 377
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #48
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?

Um, the Big East in 2 years has gotten 4 and 6 bids. I think that qualifies as a multi bid conference.

I was responding to the Shockers' fan that Wichita State would fit into the AAC. AAC really have not gotten multi bids. Since the Big East do not want public schools, Wichita's only hope is MWC.

The AAC has though. Got 4 and 2(and had the 1st team out last year).
09-28-2015 11:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lenvillecards Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,300
Joined: Nov 2013
Reputation: 350
I Root For: Louisville
Location:
Post: #49
CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:23 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  St, Louis makes sense because it adds a new TV market, while having history with DePaul and Marquette.

Dayton is to close to Xavier and does not add any TV market value. I think they are a no go.

VCU is a good choice and a competitive basketball program. They are the second best basketball program in the state of Virginia behind UVA. They would add a good share of the Virginia TV market.

So I would add St.Louis and VCU. 07-coffee3

I concur.
09-28-2015 11:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,456
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 607
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #50
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?

Um, the Big East in 2 years has gotten 4 and 6 bids. I think that qualifies as a multi bid conference.

I was responding to the Shockers' fan that Wichita State would fit into the AAC. AAC really have not gotten multi bids. Since the Big East do not want public schools, Wichita's only hope is MWC.

Wichita State is in an extremely tough place for conference realignment purposes despite their on-the-court success. Its location and academic profile make it a real stretch for any league that's an upgrade from the MVC to come calling. Any non-football membership in a league like the AAC or MWC is very unrealistic. They also don't fit in with the Big East, WCC or A-10 well, which are the 3 non-FBS Division I leagues that would be better than the MVC competitively. I wish that there was a better answer for Wichita State, but the problem is that whenever they have a downward turn on-the-court (which is inevitable - even the bluest blue bloods like Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA eventually have down periods), they aren't providing off-the-court value in terms of a TV market, recruiting territory (whether for athletes or regular tuition-paying students) or academics, which are all what university presidents are focusing on for conference realignment.
09-28-2015 11:59 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,176
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 208
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #51
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:41 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dayton is out because they are to close to Xavier. VCU is out because of them being public. Richmond? Not sure they want to leave where they are at. Wichita State is out. They want a conference that is a multi bid conference. MWC is a multi bid conference that they could fit by adding football. If the Big 12 takes 4 schools out of the AAC which Houston could be on the list? When will SMU and Tulsa decides the AAC is not worth it anymore, and joins the MWC? Wichita State could join, but who would be the 16th school? UTEP? UTSA? North Dakota State?

Um, the Big East in 2 years has gotten 4 and 6 bids. I think that qualifies as a multi bid conference.

I was responding to the Shockers' fan that Wichita State would fit into the AAC. AAC really have not gotten multi bids. Since the Big East do not want public schools, Wichita's only hope is MWC.

Wichita State is in an extremely tough place for conference realignment purposes despite their on-the-court success. Its location and academic profile make it a real stretch for any league that's an upgrade from the MVC to come calling. Any non-football membership in a league like the AAC or MWC is very unrealistic. They also don't fit in with the Big East, WCC or A-10 well, which are the 3 non-FBS Division I leagues that would be better than the MVC competitively. I wish that there was a better answer for Wichita State, but the problem is that whenever they have a downward turn on-the-court (which is inevitable - even the bluest blue bloods like Kentucky, Indiana and UCLA eventually have down periods), they aren't providing off-the-court value in terms of a TV market, recruiting territory (whether for athletes or regular tuition-paying students) or academics, which are all what university presidents are focusing on for conference realignment.


They could improve their image by re-adding football. They will suck at football for a while, but could propel the basketball for a conference.
09-28-2015 12:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,218
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 85
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #52
CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 08:57 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Navy plays 8 games in The American and practically-permanent OOC rivalries against Notre Dame, Army, and Air Force. That leaves them only one game that they get to schedule, which they currently use to open the season at home against an FCS opponent. I don't see how or why they would schedule an independent UConn, unless they went independent with them.
Navy doesn't have any FCS opponents scheduled the next few years, save one game the year they also play at Hawaii-Navy is using the Hawaii exemption that year to give themselves a 13th game.
09-28-2015 12:15 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,681
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 416
I Root For: ODU and VCU
Location:
Post: #53
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
I read somewhere that Marquette has major issues with Dayton, going back to their Great Midwest days, and might be a major stumbling block for their admittance. Between that and Xavier's proximity, that's taking the oomph out of what probably should have been a slam-dunk addition.

VCU won't ever be in the Big East. Even if all the athletic people in the conference were on board, the presidents would shoot it down. They really care about institutional fit, and having a cathedral and the Richmond archdiocese on campus isn't enough.

Richmond is a potential fit, though I don't know what their basketball program's ceiling is. I can't imagine them contending for many BE titles, but they should usually be respectable.

It should be Dayton-St. Louis, Denver-Gonzaga (much farther down the line) or, most likely, nothing at all.
09-28-2015 02:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NoDak Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,868
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 90
I Root For: UND
Location:
Post: #54
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 11:23 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  St, Louis makes sense because it adds a new TV market, while having history with DePaul and Marquette.

Dayton is to close to Xavier and does not add any TV market value. I think they are a no go.

VCU is a good choice and a competitive basketball program. They are the second best basketball program in the state of Virginia behind UVA. They would add a good share of the Virginia TV market.

So I would add St.Louis and VCU. 07-coffee3
Denver has poured money into its baskets program, but hasn't seen results yet.

Denver would be a travel partner for St Louis or Creighton. DU is already in the Big East in lax, and is also a perennial power in ice hockey and was national champions in men's lax. Denver doesn't get the respect it deserves.
09-28-2015 02:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
geef Offline
JV Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 3,112
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 204
I Root For: Goetta
Location: Cascadia
Post: #55
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 02:12 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 11:23 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  St, Louis makes sense because it adds a new TV market, while having history with DePaul and Marquette.

Dayton is to close to Xavier and does not add any TV market value. I think they are a no go.

VCU is a good choice and a competitive basketball program. They are the second best basketball program in the state of Virginia behind UVA. They would add a good share of the Virginia TV market.

So I would add St.Louis and VCU. 07-coffee3
Denver has poured money into its baskets program, but hasn't seen results yet.

Denver would be a travel partner for St Louis or Creighton. DU is already in the Big East in lax, and is also a perennial power in ice hockey and was national champions in men's lax. Denver doesn't get the respect it deserves.

Wow! I can't believe that's coming from a North Dakota fan. 03-wink

I worked at DU for a handful of years, and loved the hockey games with the Sioux. I was there when DU went Division 1, and have enjoyed their steady rise. Yeah, basketball has been tough. Just when they look ready to break through, they stumble. It may be time to move past Joe Scott and the Princeton offense.....
09-28-2015 03:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,176
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 208
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #56
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
Assumption D2 Catholic in Worchester. Mass.
Merrimack D2 North Andover good hockey at D1 already.
Belmont Abbey D2 Big name school in Belmont, N.C.
Mary D2 Bismarck
Iona
Christian Brothers D2 in Memphis.
Manhattan
St. Mary's, Cal. was rumor to go with Gonzaga.
Saint Vincent D2
St. Martin's D2 in Seattle area.
Mount St. Mary's
Sacred Heart Fairfield, Conn.
Barry D2 Miami, Florida
Ohio Dominican D2
Quincy D2
Siena
Saint Francis New yYork
Saint Francie Pa.
Portland
Canisius in Buffalo
Holy Cross in Worchester
Fairfield
Fordham
Gonzaga
Le Moyne in Syracuse at D2
Loyola Marymount
Loyola-Chicago
Loyoal-Maryland
Regis D2 Denver
Rockhurst D2 Kansas City
St. Josephs, Pa.
Santa Clara
Seattle U.
Spring Hill in Mobile
Detroit Mercy
San Francisco
Spaulding Louisville
Incarnate Word San Antonio
Georgian Court New Jersey
Mercyhurst
Notre Dame, Ohio
Chaminade
Bellarmine Louisville
Duqusne Pittsburgh
Niagara
U. Of Dallas
U. of San Diego
Daemen
Lynn Boca Rotan
Saint Leo
Marist

Some could be work in process. Some at the D2 level like Belmont Abbey and Bellarmine are two big name schools that could upgrade. Some in the same markets. But there are a lot to choose from a tv market aspect like U. of Dallas, Christian Brothers and some others.All these schools are Catholic schools.
09-28-2015 03:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nzmorange Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,000
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 279
I Root For: UAB
Location:
Post: #57
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-28-2015 09:27 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 08:10 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 05:12 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-28-2015 04:22 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  BE contract > AAC contract.
Though not bowl game tie-ins would suck ... and people airily dismissing the difficulties scheduling late season home games as an independent in an era with so few independents don't actually make the issue go away. UConn does not have the clout that Notre Dame has to get late home games, and even Notre Dame found it in their interest to negotiate a scheduling agreement with a P5 conference to get the flexibility they needed in late season scheduling.
You edited out the following from the original post:
"That said, TV payouts are only one piece of the equation."

The Orange were worth $3 million and then they were worth $20 million, I hope UConn can find the same thing. We all know the Cuse football product was behind it.

That's neither true nor relevant. In no way shape or form does Syracuse's media value change the fact that the BIG EAST TV contract is worth more than the AAC's in terms of per school monetary payouts (as opposed to exposure). Additionally, Syracuse has no bearing on whether or not there are concerns beyond the scope of purely TV money.

Also, your claim is wrong for a number of reasons:
1. The BIG EAST media contract was at it's very end when Syracuse left and the ACC contract is at its very beginning, and the contracts are back-loaded.
2. The contracts cover different rights.
3. Syracuse's value was more an outlier in the BIG EAST than it is the ACC.
4. Syracuse football is actually pretty profitable, and had a winning BE record.
09-28-2015 04:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bostonspider Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 291
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Richmond
Location:
Post: #58
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
If you added a "western" and "eastern" team and moved to a two division 16 game schedule, then all the traditional Big East teams would still be playing home and homes. And you would add 6 more games to Fox Sports inventory (16x6=96 versus 18x5=90).

East
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
Richmond

West
Marquette
Depaul
Xavier
Butler
Creighton
St. Louis

Home and home in your division and 3 home and 3 road against the opposite division. Each western team gets trips to the NYC region with either SHU or SJU on the road every year. Obviously you could sub out Davidson for Richmond and Dayton for St. Louis. I think it gets tougher if you add two midwestern teams, and begins to have to conference lose some of its "eastern" flavor. Richmond is only two hours south of Georgetown, which keeps that division georgraphically tight. And UR has about 4200 students so is closer to Providence and Butler in size, is the wealthiest school among the group by far, and has both MBA and JD programs..

Plus the beautifully renovated Robins Center:

[Image: 1041B-614-AB_Robins.jpg]
09-29-2015 01:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 37,149
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 377
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #59
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
Before Richmond has any shot in the Big East, they have to pass VCU in terms of coming remotely close to owning their own city. Right now, Richmond is at least a distant 3rd in the city behind UVA and VCU. Maybe even lower.
09-29-2015 01:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bostonspider Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 291
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Richmond
Location:
Post: #60
RE: CBS Sports College Hoops Mailbag: Big East Expansion?
(09-29-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Before Richmond has any shot in the Big East, they have to pass VCU in terms of coming remotely close to owning their own city. Right now, Richmond is at least a distant 3rd in the city behind UVA and VCU. Maybe even lower.

Not according to your Presidents.. From all I have heard, it is a three team race if the conference expands, SLU, UD and UR. This directly to me from UR's president in a one on one conversation.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2015 01:55 PM by bostonspider.)
09-29-2015 01:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.