(06-01-2015 06:57 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Some really ignorant people in this thread, and the amount of mental gymnastics required to come to the conclusions they did are legitimately impressive. No one is claiming this is some huge wrong being committed or that those poor atheist children are being horribly mistreated, but that doesn't mean a coach of a publicly funded collegiate leading a prayer is constitutionally sound, which it unambiguously is not. I know it's how things were when you were raised, but that doesn't make it right, even if we all agree there are far larger wrongs being committed. A devoutly christian parent getting upset at a Muslim coach for pressuring their child to take part in a Muslim prayer would get nothing but nods of approval on here, yet an atheist does the same and it's wrong? Grow up.

It's weird how this messageboard overwhelmingly claims to be libertarian, yet with these sorts of issues come up, out comes the NeoConservative in many posters.

It shouldn't be a team event and it shouldn't be led by the coach.

Hopefully Toledo grows a set and tells these anti-Christian leftists to go piss up a rope like Clemson did.

If the coach sponsored a queer swingers party, Tom would be praising it. Some if you guys are clueless on what separation of church and state really means.

(06-01-2015 07:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 06:57 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Some really ignorant people in this thread, and the amount of mental gymnastics required to come to the conclusions they did are legitimately impressive. No one is claiming this is some huge wrong being committed or that those poor atheist children are being horribly mistreated, but that doesn't mean a coach of a publicly funded collegiate leading a prayer is constitutionally sound, which it unambiguously is not. I know it's how things were when you were raised, but that doesn't make it right, even if we all agree there are far larger wrongs being committed. A devoutly christian parent getting upset at a Muslim coach for pressuring their child to take part in a Muslim prayer would get nothing but nods of approval on here, yet an atheist does the same and it's wrong? Grow up.

It's weird how this messageboard overwhelmingly claims to be libertarian, yet with these sorts of issues come up, out comes the NeoConservative in many posters.

It shouldn't be a team event and it shouldn't be led by the coach.

If it's led by a student, there is no issue. It's about that simple.

(06-01-2015 08:13 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  If the coach sponsored a queer swingers party, Tom would be praising it. Some if you guys are clueless on what separation of church and state really means.

Please, educate me. I can cite court cases supporting my interpretation, and I'm also aware of the fact the phrase 'separation of church and state' doesn't actually appear in the constitution, but I'd love for your explanation on how this doesn't violate the establishment clause.

Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

(06-01-2015 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

Again, no one is claiming these prayers are the end of the world, so your attemp at minimizing the validity of their claims by implying that is the case makes you look like an idiot. A coach leading a prayer like this is wrong, and the only reason more posters here don't care is because it's not affecting them not they agree with the belief set being pushed. It's not the end of the world, and it's a minor issue, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a valid complaint to levy.

(06-01-2015 08:30 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

Again, no one is claiming these prayers are the end of the world, so your attemp at minimizing the validity of their claims by implying that is the case makes you look like an idiot. A coach leading a prayer like this is wrong, and the only reason more posters here don't care is because it's not affecting them not they agree with the belief set being pushed. It's not the end of the world, and it's a minor issue, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a valid complaint to levy.

They minimized their own validity...Francis

Always the Libs who stand up against prayer.

State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

A state employee acting in a personal capacity shouldn't be bound by the most stringent of rules.

This, thankfully, is something the pendulum is swinging back towards common sense on.

Good. Football coaches are obsessed with God, no wonder the NFL is so f'ed up!

(06-01-2015 09:26 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A state employee acting in a personal capacity shouldn't be bound by the most stringent of rules.

This, thankfully, is something the pendulum is swinging back towards common sense on.

It's not acting in a personal capacity to compel the entire team to take part in pregame prayers.

Virtually every team does this, and hours prior to kick off most teams hold hands, mediate, pray etc.
Go Rockets!

(06-01-2015 08:30 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

Again, no one is claiming these prayers are the end of the world, so your attemp at minimizing the validity of their claims by implying that is the case makes you look like an idiot. A coach leading a prayer like this is wrong, and the only reason more posters here don't care is because it's not affecting them not they agree with the belief set being pushed. It's not the end of the world, and it's a minor issue, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a valid complaint to levy.

Complain all you want, b!tches always do. Any of us that have actually played a team sport a little tougher than summer swim league were very grateful to say a quick word and "Thanks" for no one getting a knee blown out or a neck broken.

Sorry that causes you some discomfort in the nether regions, perhaps you'd be better off at the slam poetry event at the coffee house.

Leave the competitive sports participants, and what they do, to the guys (and gals) that actually do them. We'll all be better off.

(06-02-2015 12:05 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:30 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

Again, no one is claiming these prayers are the end of the world, so your attemp at minimizing the validity of their claims by implying that is the case makes you look like an idiot. A coach leading a prayer like this is wrong, and the only reason more posters here don't care is because it's not affecting them not they agree with the belief set being pushed. It's not the end of the world, and it's a minor issue, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a valid complaint to levy.

Complain all you want, b!tches always do. Any of us that have actually played a team sport a little tougher than summer swim league were very grateful to say a quick word and "Thanks" for no one getting a knee blown out or a neck broken.

Sorry that causes you some discomfort in the nether regions, perhaps you'd be better off at the slam poetry event at the coffee house.

Leave the competitive sports participants, and what they do, to the guys (and gals) that actually do them. We'll all be better off.

I played every major competitive sport in high school, including playing high school football starting in the 7th grade. I played with a literal Super Bowl winner, and on a program which produced half a dozen division one prospects a year. I was no super star, but I had offers for Div II spots until I broke my arm and had an appendectomy the summer of my senior year. Losing 45lbs because you're sick for weeks will do that, luckily I did well enough to not need an athletic scholarship, and could rely on my academics for that.

But none of that matters, and the fact you think your pathetic pissing-contest of a post is at all relevant to topic at hand shows your utter lack of intellectual integrity and maturity. That you and I both did not mind these sorts of things when growing up doesn't mean they're right to do, nor does it mean someone else isn't allowed to view them differently. I know nuanced thought isn't your specialty, but this concept is easy so even you should be able to grasp it.

(06-02-2015 07:34 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 12:05 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:30 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  Damn, some of your heads would have exploded if you had been at my kids public middle school graduation.

And my place of work conducts prayers at meetings all of time. Some people bow and some people stare into space.

Lighten up Francis

Again, no one is claiming these prayers are the end of the world, so your attemp at minimizing the validity of their claims by implying that is the case makes you look like an idiot. A coach leading a prayer like this is wrong, and the only reason more posters here don't care is because it's not affecting them not they agree with the belief set being pushed. It's not the end of the world, and it's a minor issue, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a valid complaint to levy.

Complain all you want, b!tches always do. Any of us that have actually played a team sport a little tougher than summer swim league were very grateful to say a quick word and "Thanks" for no one getting a knee blown out or a neck broken.

Sorry that causes you some discomfort in the nether regions, perhaps you'd be better off at the slam poetry event at the coffee house.

Leave the competitive sports participants, and what they do, to the guys (and gals) that actually do them. We'll all be better off.

I played every major competitive sport in high school, including playing high school football starting in the 7th grade. I played with a literal Super Bowl winner, and on a program which produced half a dozen division one prospects a year. I was no super star, but I had offers for Div II spots until I broke my arm and had an appendectomy the summer of my senior year. Losing 45lbs because you're sick for weeks will do that, luckily I did well enough to not need an athletic scholarship, and could rely on my academics for that.

But none of that matters, and the fact you think your pathetic pissing-contest of a post is at all relevant to topic at hand shows your utter lack of intellectual integrity and maturity. That you and I both did not mind these sorts of things when growing up doesn't mean they're right to do, nor does it mean someone else isn't allowed to view them differently. I know nuanced thought isn't your specialty, but this concept is easy so even you should be able to grasp it.

(06-01-2015 10:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:26 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A state employee acting in a personal capacity shouldn't be bound by the most stringent of rules.

This, thankfully, is something the pendulum is swinging back towards common sense on.

It's not acting in a personal capacity to compel the entire team to take part in pregame prayers.

The coach is forcing people to do it?

The argument that "I would have felt out of place or different so I was forced" is increasingly falling on deaf ears.

I thought the atheist motto was "live and let live". I don't see where anyone making these demands is involved with the football team.

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

No, because I don't expect the whole to adjust because on only one me. I'd just go along and then play my football game. Besides, them praying doesn't impact me at all, unless I just want to draw attention to myself and make a big fuss about it.