(03-04-2015 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:15 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 06:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 05:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Pop quiz: How does an illegal alien work off the books?

Cash only. Ever seen them use a Debit card at Walmart?

No. What's an illegal look like?

I would post a picture but some oversensitive leftist would probably get offended and report it.

Really...you have the power to look at someone and tell if they are an illegal? You should apply at ICE.

No, I have the ability to search for the right subject on Google.

(03-04-2015 10:09 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 07:27 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 06:05 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 05:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Pop quiz: How does an illegal alien work off the books?

A scumbag hires him.

Your turn. How is an illegal who didn't pay taxes entitled to a return?

Still waiting Tom....

Excuse me dude, but I don't read this site much at all when I'm not at work.

But I am curious to know that you mean by "entitled to a return"?

I assume you mean entitled to a refund. And that's a simple answer, it's the law.

The Earned Income Credit allows some individuals to get a refund even when they didn't pay any taxes. That's the law. And this particular law was even enacted by Ford and expanded under Reagan.

They need to have Social Security Numbers to get these refunds...so this is just a necessary evil under Obama's action because that's the law. Was it intentional...to buy votes? It would be a pretty lame way to go about if you ask me. Spending loads of political capital in the off chance that many illegals will come forward and out themselves and then lie about their citizenship and vote in enough numbers to sway the electoral college. To me, a bridge WAY to far.

When they get a SSN, the have to register. So they make themselves known to our government. Now we can track them.

But bottom line: No illegal should be working in America anyway! But we refuse to go after the employers who keep hiring them without green cards, SSN's and proof of citizenship.

Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

(03-04-2015 10:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:09 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 07:27 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 06:05 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 05:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Pop quiz: How does an illegal alien work off the books?

A scumbag hires him.

Your turn. How is an illegal who didn't pay taxes entitled to a return?

Still waiting Tom....

Excuse me dude, but I don't read this site much at all when I'm not at work.

But I am curious to know that you mean by "entitled to a return"?

I assume you mean entitled to a refund. And that's a simple answer, it's the law.

The Earned Income Credit allows some individuals to get a refund even when they didn't pay any taxes. That's the law. And this particular law was even enacted by Ford and expanded under Reagan.

They need to have Social Security Numbers to get these refunds...so this is just a necessary evil under Obama's action because that's the law. Was it intentional...to buy votes? It would be a pretty lame way to go about if you ask me. Spending loads of political capital in the off chance that many illegals will come forward and out themselves and then lie about their citizenship and vote in enough numbers to sway the electoral college. To me, a bridge WAY to far.

When they get a SSN, the have to register. So they make themselves known to our government. Now we can track them.

But bottom line: No illegal should be working in America anyway! But we refuse to go after the employers who keep hiring them without green cards, SSN's and proof of citizenship.

Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

I agree...the law needs changed. IRS doesn't write the law. The IRS head Koskinen is just interpreting it...that's what the IRS does. It's up to congress to correct the law if they desire.

(03-04-2015 10:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:15 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 06:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Cash only. Ever seen them use a Debit card at Walmart?

No. What's an illegal look like?

I would post a picture but some oversensitive leftist would probably get offended and report it.

Really...you have the power to look at someone and tell if they are an illegal? You should apply at ICE.

No, I have the ability to search for the right subject on Google.

Congratulations.

Still, doesn't change the fact that even Google can't tell you what every illegal looks like!

(03-03-2015 05:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Pop quiz: How does an illegal alien work off the books?

Even though I am against the refunds this is a very important point.

They do pay taxes, if not under their own names and social security numbers.

The solution to this is so damned easy and actually quite conservative...er...Republican.

Enforce the damn laws already on the books! Jail/Fine the employers who keep employing illegals and/or pay them under the table.

(03-04-2015 10:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

I agree...the law needs changed. IRS doesn't write the law. The IRS head Koskinen is just interpreting it...that's what the IRS does. It's up to congress to correct the law if they desire.

I'm no tax expert but the way I read this someone who isn't paying taxes (regardless of their citizenship status) shouldn't be entitled to EITC.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC,-Ear...nd-Answers

(03-04-2015 10:49 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:19 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:15 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  No. What's an illegal look like?

I would post a picture but some oversensitive leftist would probably get offended and report it.

Really...you have the power to look at someone and tell if they are an illegal? You should apply at ICE.

No, I have the ability to search for the right subject on Google.

Congratulations.

Still, doesn't change the fact that even Google can't tell you what every illegal looks like!

Sure it does. Type in "illegal immigrant deported" then select images and you'll see plenty of pictures of illegals.

Like I said above, I would post a picture to prove my point but some leftist would get offended and report it.

(03-04-2015 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

I agree...the law needs changed. IRS doesn't write the law. The IRS head Koskinen is just interpreting it...that's what the IRS does. It's up to congress to correct the law if they desire.

I'm no tax expert but the way I read this someone who isn't paying taxes (regardless of their citizenship status) shouldn't be entitled to EITC.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC,-Ear...nd-Answers

On that we can agree.

Trust me. The EITC is a refundable credit, so it's treated just like a payment. Meaning that it's just like withholding and estimated payments. You get it back even if you have no taxes.

This is the key from your link...pay attention to the bolded part:

Quote:EITC, Earned Income Tax Credit, is a benefit for working people who have low to moderate income. A tax credit means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe and may also give you a refund.

What that means is that if your credit exceeds your tax, you get that money back. Not all credits are that way. Most only reduce your tax to zero. Those are called nonrefundable credits.

(03-04-2015 10:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The solution to this is so damned easy and actually quite conservative...er...Republican.

Enforce the damn laws already on the books! Jail/Fine the employers who keep employing illegals and/or pay them under the table.

Neither side wants that to happen for various reasons.

(03-04-2015 11:18 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

I agree...the law needs changed. IRS doesn't write the law. The IRS head Koskinen is just interpreting it...that's what the IRS does. It's up to congress to correct the law if they desire.

I'm no tax expert but the way I read this someone who isn't paying taxes (regardless of their citizenship status) shouldn't be entitled to EITC.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC,-Ear...nd-Answers

On that we can agree.

Trust me. The EITC is a refundable credit, so it's treated just like a payment. Meaning that it's just like withholding and estimated payments. You get it back even if you have no taxes.

This is the key from your link...pay attention to the bolded part:

Quote:EITC, Earned Income Tax Credit, is a benefit for working people who have low to moderate income. A tax credit means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe and may also give you a refund.

What that means is that if your credit exceeds your tax, you get that money back. Not all credits are that way. Most only reduce your tax to zero. Those are called nonrefundable credits.

So how low does one's income need to be to not pay ANY taxes AND get a refund? This is mind-boggling to me. I honestly had no idea that was possible.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillip...-and-more/

The lowest I see here is 10%.

(03-04-2015 11:33 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 11:18 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 11:14 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 10:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  Why the hell would we give the Earned Income Credit to a non-citizen that hasn't paid any income tax is beyond me. I can guarantee you that when that law was enacted, the Earned Income Credit was not targeted to non-citizens in the country illegally. No way.

We may have to re-write a new provision of the law - but you can't just go a pay three years of Earned Income Credit to these people here illegally who haven't been paying taxes.

It's sheer lunacy.

I agree...the law needs changed. IRS doesn't write the law. The IRS head Koskinen is just interpreting it...that's what the IRS does. It's up to congress to correct the law if they desire.

I'm no tax expert but the way I read this someone who isn't paying taxes (regardless of their citizenship status) shouldn't be entitled to EITC.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC,-Ear...nd-Answers

On that we can agree.

Trust me. The EITC is a refundable credit, so it's treated just like a payment. Meaning that it's just like withholding and estimated payments. You get it back even if you have no taxes.

This is the key from your link...pay attention to the bolded part:

Quote:EITC, Earned Income Tax Credit, is a benefit for working people who have low to moderate income. A tax credit means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe and may also give you a refund.

What that means is that if your credit exceeds your tax, you get that money back. Not all credits are that way. Most only reduce your tax to zero. Those are called nonrefundable credits.

So how low does one's income need to be to not pay ANY taxes AND get a refund? This is mind-boggling to me. I honestly had no idea that was possible.

That's a question with no answer really. Tax and Refund really have nothing to do with one another. Your refund is based mainly on what you paid in and then the few refundable credits like the EIC that are in excess of any tax.

Single people get a $6,200 standard deduction and a $3,950 exemption in 2014. So you can have $10,150 of income and pay no taxes. So if you also had withholding or made payments or get an EIC, you get that money back even though you paid no taxes.

And as your income increases, you can also reduce any tax with nonrefundable credits for education and having children.

(03-04-2015 11:38 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillip...-and-more/

The lowest I see here is 10%.

That's of taxable income. Your income can get reduced by myriad things and credits.

Not trying to be mean, but have you never filed or looked at your tax return before?

(03-04-2015 11:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-04-2015 11:38 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillip...-and-more/

The lowest I see here is 10%.

That's of taxable income. Your income can get reduced by myriad things and credits.

Not trying to be mean, but have you never filed or looked at your tax return before?

No offense taken... that's what my wife is for. Seriously though what I'm saying is that it's illogical for somebody to have zero non-taxable income AND get a refund unless they're extremely poor and living off disability / life / SS.... things which more than likely an illegal isn't or SHOULDN'T have.

http://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/glo...income.pdf

Quote:Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC)
Child support
Damages for physical injury (other than punitive)
Death payments
Dividends on life insurance
Federal Employees’ Compensation Act payments
Federal income tax refunds
Gifts
Inheritanceor bequest
Insurance proceeds (Accident, Casualty, Health, Life)
Interest on tax-free securities
Interest on EE/I bonds redeemed for qualified higher education expenses
Meals and lodging for the convenience of employerPayments to the beneficiary of a deceased employee
Relocation payments
Payments in lieu of worker’s compensation
Rental allowance of clergyman
Sickness and injury payments
Social security benefits - portion may not be taxable
Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
Veterans’ benefits
Welfare payments (including TANF) and food stamps
Worker’s compensation and similar payments

So... unless people are completely living off this list how the hell is this happening? And if they're living off the gov't provided incomes on this list AND getting a refund... HOW THE **** IS THAT HAPPENING?????

The Earned Income Tax Credit is a credit given by the Internal Revenue Service to low income working individuals. Maximum income levels vary from year to year. The EITC reduces or eliminates the amount of tax owed, and for many people, it qualifies them for a refund. An individual must meet certain qualifications in order to claim the credit. According to the IRS guidelines, some of these include having a valid Social Security Number, having earned income from employment or self-employment, and not having a status of married, filing separately. In addition, the filer must meet certain citizenship and residency guidelines, and cannot be a qualifying child of another person.

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4671980_ear...-work.html

As we all know the "refund" you get (if you get one) is money paid back to you that you paid in. A tax refund is not getting back "free money" from the government. If you get a refund, you are getting back the money you paid in from withholding.

However…

If someone qualifies for the earned income credit (EIC) someone can have paid zero in taxes and get additional money (the EIC) back. If an illegal qualifies for EIC, they would pay zero in taxes and get additional money back, money that they did not pay in. It is essentially a "welfare" payment paid for by other taxpayers.

Makes no sense to me either, I didn't know that was possible. But since I knew I didn't qualify for the EITC I haven't looked at it that carefully. Hmm, maybe I should....

(03-04-2015 12:16 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Makes no sense to me either, I didn't know that was possible. But since I knew I didn't qualify for the EITC I haven't looked at it that carefully. Hmm, maybe I should....

Seriously. **** it. What's the point of working if you qualify for some of these handouts? My word, I had no idea our tax code was this ****** up.

Fwiw, I have no issue with helping the elderly or disabled citizens.

This details the most credit you can receive and the income levels as to when it phases out:
http://www.savingtoinvest.com/earned-inc...-stimulus/

The current tax code needs to be completely destroyed. It's a total dumpster fire.