(08-12-2014 05:48 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  Actually he blamed the Iraqi's
Here's the thing with this guy. He ALWAYS acts like he is the victim of circumstances. He never realizes that he actually has quite a bit of power to influence things. Blaming the Iraqi's for no SofA is ridiculous. He rarely if ever called Maliki to assert pressure. He does not think like most Americans. He sees the US as an agent of evil and chaos. By NOT acting he thinks he is doing the world a favor. By striping the Military of its 'middle class' officers he is ensuring that we have reduced capability, read temptation, to act where there are issues.
America is, if not THE world leader, certainly in the top 3. He does not know how to lead and therefore doesn't want America to lead.

Well stated.


Posted from the shallow recesses of my feeble mind.

Conservatives didn't make troop withdrawal, read "Ending War", anyone's signature achievement and campaign platform for the office of POTUS so...


Posted from the shallow recesses of my feeble mind.

(08-12-2014 06:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 06:16 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 06:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 06:01 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  say what you want about him, but I think any sane rational person will say that Iraq was given more than enough to combat ISIS. their failures to form an all-inclusive government and getting completely routed with superior forces is their fault not the US.

now granted you can blame obama but that is for not getting involved in syria

I'm sane and rational, and disagree. It takes time and there is no all inclusive time table. Iraq was on the way to being stable, but when we just up and left.....any sane rational person could see this coming.

sorry but you are flat out wrong on this one. Nouri al-Maliki was a terrible leader. considering the resources they had to fight ISIS there is zero excuse for them to be routed as bad as they were and the only way that was possible is incompetent leadership and a government that was losing its credibility.

are you completely unaware of the issues regarding Maliki and not making his govt inclusive enough???

I am completely aware that Maliki replaced all of his commanders when we left because he didn't trust them. I'm aware that we had no one there to reassure him when old suspicions crept in. We had a President who rarely if ever called him to say that America is still with you. I'm also aware that the US people on the ground REALLY wanted the guy who was just appointed PM. But when you have someone as un engaged and incapable of leadership as our President it shouldn't surprise you. We HAD the trust of the 3 main factions in Iraq and they were willing to make a go of it. Then the President just pulled the rug out.
I'm aware of all that, and more

Then you are aware of how the Iraqi military got their ass.s handed to them by ISIS despite having superior forces? No country with a healthy government suffers a defeat like that with such superior forces. You are basically blaming Obama for not being the president of Iraq as far as I can tell. The breakdown came from the govt in Iraq, their leadership has been ineffective throughout this crisis and it showed.

All of which only highlights the failure inherent in abandoning what we had already accomplished, and still had left to do, before the Iraqis were capable of governing and defending themselves.

The current situation was easily predictable, and predicted months ago. Hell, Romney predicted it in his debates with The One. Any fool should have seen it coming and in fact the biggest fool has sat on the sidelines for a year as this has unfolded. It's unconscionable.


Posted from the shallow recesses of my feeble mind.

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses

half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.

yall always want to have it both ways.

It seems you like to have it both ways as well... The difference is that it's your guy in office..

But rather than focus on what people on a sports bulletin board have to say...

“It [Iraq] could be one of the greatest achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.” -- Joe Biden.

(08-12-2014 07:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses
half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.
yall always want to have it both ways.

It seems you like to have it both ways as well... The difference is that it's your guy in office..
But rather than focus on what people on a sports bulletin board have to say...
“It [Iraq] could be one of the greatest achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.” -- Joe Biden.

Both sides want their guy to get credit for the withdrawal and the other team's guy to get blamed for the meltdown that is taking place now.

How about this as a novel concept--whoever gets credit for the withdrawal gets blamed for this?

Bush gets credit for the drawdown and blame for the meltdown,
OR
Obama gets credit for the drawdown and blame for the meltdown.

Which one do you choose?

(08-12-2014 07:09 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses

half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.

yall always want to have it both ways.

It seems you like to have it both ways as well... The difference is that it's your guy in office..

But rather than focus on what people on a sports bulletin board have to say...

“It [Iraq] could be one of the greatest achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.” -- Joe Biden.

the difference is that I am not the one who acts like a hypocritical tool on here, whereas a large number of GOP posters can be described exactly as that.

Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

easily the most hypocritical comment that I have ever seen on csnbbs and they are either too dumb or have too much ego to understand reality. democrats are at fault for trying to block republican attempts to weaken abortion & contraception access but the republicans are completely off the hook on this despite being the ones who put in motion more political debates about this issue than any other social issue ==> and yet they are somehow off the hook on this.

I have for years resented the attitudes of "I will blame you when your party does X, but if my party does X it's perfectly fine" attitude that so many posters on here. that is something that I try to be above and to accuse me of is quite unfair. You can call me out because I disagree with your viewpoints, but this is one thing you will have a hard time calling me out on. I know I am not perfect, but I doubt you will find statements that I have made where I contradict myself because of my guy = good, your guy = bad.

(08-12-2014 07:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

If it was so unimportant then why did you spend 3 days "dealing with" it?

More importantly, your boy ran on withdrawing troops out of Iraq and now he's saying "no, I did not." Only fools and morons take his word for anything any more. Do you?

(08-12-2014 07:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  the difference is that I am not the one who acts like a hypocritical tool on here, whereas a large number of GOP posters can be described exactly as that.

Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

easily the most hypocritical comment that I have ever seen on csnbbs and they are either too dumb or have too much ego to understand reality. democrats are at fault for trying to block republican attempts to weaken abortion & contraception access but the republicans are completely off the hook on this despite being the ones who put in motion more political debates about this issue than any other social issue ==> and yet they are somehow off the hook on this.

I have for years resented the attitudes of "I will blame you when your party does X, but if my party does X it's perfectly fine" attitude that so many posters on here. that is something that I try to be above and to accuse me of is quite unfair. You can call me out because I disagree with your viewpoints, but this is one thing you will have a hard time calling me out on. I know I am not perfect, but I doubt you will find statements that I have made where I contradict myself because of my guy = good, your guy = bad.

Are you saying that you've never given Obama credit for the withdrawal? Or that you disagree with Obama for blaming this on Bush? I don't know, and I'm sure as hell not going to take the time to read every one of your posts to find out. I'll take your word for it, just asking.

But if you're going to claim "holier than thou," you damn well better be truly "holier than thou."

(08-12-2014 08:13 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 07:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

If it was so unimportant then why did you spend 3 days "dealing with" it?

More importantly, your boy ran on withdrawing troops out of Iraq and now he's saying "no, I did not." Only fools and morons take his word for anything any more. Do you?

Well.......Johnny-Zero is the gold standard of stupidity. So the fact he's taking King Zero's word for it only proves my point.

(08-12-2014 08:13 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 07:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

If it was so unimportant then why did you spend 3 days "dealing with" it?

More importantly, your boy ran on withdrawing troops out of Iraq and now he's saying "no, I did not." Only fools and morons take his word for anything any more. Do you?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad???

the only use of the word "important" was referencing a quote by dixie where he stated there are more important things democratic politicians should be focused on (such as the economy).

oh and since when does monday + tuesday = 3 days???

(08-12-2014 08:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 07:54 PM)john01992 Wrote:  the difference is that I am not the one who acts like a hypocritical tool on here, whereas a large number of GOP posters can be described exactly as that.

Hell I spent most of my posts today and on monday dealing with three right wing dumbas.ses who think "why are democrats always in peoples crotches, there are more important things they should be concerned with" in regards to abortion & contraception.

easily the most hypocritical comment that I have ever seen on csnbbs and they are either too dumb or have too much ego to understand reality. democrats are at fault for trying to block republican attempts to weaken abortion & contraception access but the republicans are completely off the hook on this despite being the ones who put in motion more political debates about this issue than any other social issue ==> and yet they are somehow off the hook on this.

I have for years resented the attitudes of "I will blame you when your party does X, but if my party does X it's perfectly fine" attitude that so many posters on here. that is something that I try to be above and to accuse me of is quite unfair. You can call me out because I disagree with your viewpoints, but this is one thing you will have a hard time calling me out on. I know I am not perfect, but I doubt you will find statements that I have made where I contradict myself because of my guy = good, your guy = bad.

Are you saying that you've never given Obama credit for the withdrawal? Or that you disagree with Obama for blaming this on Bush? I don't know, and I'm sure as hell not going to take the time to read every one of your posts to find out. I'll take your word for it, just asking.

But if you're going to claim "holier than thou," you damn well better be truly "holier than thou."

I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

So what do I have you all upset about now, John?

(08-12-2014 08:31 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  So what do I have you all upset about now, John?

for being a stupid partisan hack.

in other words: nothing new

(08-12-2014 08:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:31 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  So what do I have you all upset about now, John?

for being a stupid partisan hack.

John-boy in a nutshell. The Gold Standard of Stupidity strikes again!!!

It's a lose-lose situation. Obama ran on getting out and he achieved that. Americans are still happy to be out.

However, it's a textbook example of how a vacuum creates enemies worse than what you had before. It's a cycle. We created this.

(08-12-2014 08:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's a lose-lose situation. Obama ran on getting out and he achieved that. Americans are still happy to be out.

However, it's a textbook example of how a vacuum creates enemies worse than what you had before. It's a cycle. We created this.

We?

(08-12-2014 06:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Then you are aware of how the Iraqi military got their ass.s handed to them by ISIS despite having superior forces? No country with a healthy government suffers a defeat like that with such superior forces. You are basically blaming Obama for not being the president of Iraq as far as I can tell. The breakdown came from the govt in Iraq, their leadership has been ineffective throughout this crisis and it showed.

History is replete with examples of superior armies being routed by smaller, less well equipped opponents. There are several reasons the Iraqi army acquiesced so easily but here is the main issue: Trust. The commanders that Maliki replaced were the ones we trained. They went through that with those troops and when the Political flunkies replaced these component commanders, the Espirit De Corps was shattered. Why would these soldiers fight and possibly die horrible deaths for those men? They went from fighting for a country, flag and ideal to reverting to their tribal allegiances. There was no trust, and it bore out, that the regime in Baghdad was looking out for the best country and soldiers rather than themselves.
I am not blaming President Obama for not being the Iraqi President. I didn't care that he and Biden were taking victory laps about how 'peaceful" they made Iraq. I blame him for not even having a passing interest in the blood and treasure we spent over there. For taking a situation that could have been great and neglecting it. President Bush left him all the tools and resources to make Iraq a shining example of Democracy ( look at the timing of the Green Revolution in Iran). But instead of staying the course, he bailed. He believes American influence is bad for the a World. The Iraqi's that are no longer tortured and killed by the Hussein regime would beg to differ. He thinks America is one of many, and not the leader of any. He feels he is doing the World a favor by pulling in American power. Ask the Christians being hacked to death by ISIS how that's working out.
I firmly believe that had we forces still there, with a SofA agreement this situation NEVER would have gotten to this point. Those commanders we trained would still be there. Why because Maliki, for all of his numerous faults, trusted us.....until President Obama signaled his desire to leave and basically ignored him. And knowing he couldn't trust us, he started looking out for himself unchecked.
Again, I don't care who would have taken credit. I would have been happy that the sacrifices we made as America paid off. Instead, it was thrown away.

Barry is a bold faced liar and also a useless p.o.s.

(08-12-2014 06:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:48 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  He does not know how to lead and therefore doesn't want America to lead.

This is the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

Every time I hear him speak I am reminded of what my old Battalion Chief said about one of the engineers who had to ride the left seat when his Captain was out: "I cringe whenever I hear him open his mouth on the radio or on scene because he couldn't lead a three car funeral procession."

Actually it's Blame Bush then Go on Vacation again .