(08-12-2014 08:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

In this instance, the President is simply the embodiment of the will of the people. Now, in full disclosure, I'm someone who wanted us to go into Iraq with the provision of the US being there for 50 years like Germany and Japan. That being said, the election of Obama to consecutive terms is a clear indicator that people wanted America to demobilize from the Middle East. In fact, I'm willing to give Obama to benefit of the doubt that he and most people in his inner circle knew what US withdrawal would mean. He did at least wait until the middle of his second term before initiating the process. While criticisms of his leadership capabilities are valid, its important to remember that we the people do not want him to lead in a decisive confrontational manner.

(08-13-2014 07:21 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

In this instance, the President is simply the embodiment of the will of the people. Now, in full disclosure, I'm someone who wanted us to go into Iraq with the provision of the US being there for 50 years like Germany and Japan. That being said, the election of Obama to consecutive terms is a clear indicator that people wanted America to demobilize from the Middle East. In fact, I'm willing to give Obama to benefit of the doubt that he and most people in his inner circle knew what US withdrawal would mean. He did at least wait until the middle of his second term before initiating the process. While criticisms of his leadership capabilities are valid, its important to remember that we the people do not want him to lead in a decisive confrontational manner.

Who is this We the People you speak of?

(08-13-2014 07:21 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

In this instance, the President is simply the embodiment of the will of the people. Now, in full disclosure, I'm someone who wanted us to go into Iraq with the provision of the US being there for 50 years like Germany and Japan. That being said, the election of Obama to consecutive terms is a clear indicator that people wanted America to demobilize from the Middle East. In fact, I'm willing to give Obama to benefit of the doubt that he and most people in his inner circle knew what US withdrawal would mean. He did at least wait until the middle of his second term before initiating the process. While criticisms of his leadership capabilities are valid, its important to remember that we the people do not want him to lead in a decisive confrontational manner.

While I don't disagree with the gist of your thoughts, I do think you've gone a bit hyperbolic with the highlighted statement. I suspect that maybe one in 100 voters had demobilization as one of their top 10 reasons for voting for Obammy.

What we are seeing here is that the only person who could lead Iraq was Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid al-Tikriti. The extreme tribalism of the Arab world means that there are two possibilities for governance--strong-armed dictator or chaos.

"My brother and I will fight my cousin, my cousin and I will fight the world," means that these places are not going to become stable, working democracies in our lifetimes.

(08-12-2014 09:12 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's a lose-lose situation. Obama ran on getting out and he achieved that. Americans are still happy to be out.

However, it's a textbook example of how a vacuum creates enemies worse than what you had before. It's a cycle. We created this.

We?

HOD has already said the US is the reason ("the ignorance of the US is responsible for") the entire Middle East non-stability.

(08-13-2014 07:28 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 07:21 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

In this instance, the President is simply the embodiment of the will of the people. Now, in full disclosure, I'm someone who wanted us to go into Iraq with the provision of the US being there for 50 years like Germany and Japan. That being said, the election of Obama to consecutive terms is a clear indicator that people wanted America to demobilize from the Middle East. In fact, I'm willing to give Obama to benefit of the doubt that he and most people in his inner circle knew what US withdrawal would mean. He did at least wait until the middle of his second term before initiating the process. While criticisms of his leadership capabilities are valid, its important to remember that we the people do not want him to lead in a decisive confrontational manner.

Who is this We the People you speak of?

While you might not have voted for Obama, he did win and thus represents the collective will of the nation.

(08-13-2014 07:35 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 07:21 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 08:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I traditionally have given him credit for the withdrawal, however he also gets the blame for the downfall because in cases like these, the president is usually accountable for what happens under his watch. I don't really agree with flamers take on things.

In this instance, the President is simply the embodiment of the will of the people. Now, in full disclosure, I'm someone who wanted us to go into Iraq with the provision of the US being there for 50 years like Germany and Japan. That being said, the election of Obama to consecutive terms is a clear indicator that people wanted America to demobilize from the Middle East. In fact, I'm willing to give Obama to benefit of the doubt that he and most people in his inner circle knew what US withdrawal would mean. He did at least wait until the middle of his second term before initiating the process. While criticisms of his leadership capabilities are valid, its important to remember that we the people do not want him to lead in a decisive confrontational manner.

While I don't disagree with the gist of your thoughts, I do think you've gone a bit hyperbolic with the highlighted statement. I suspect that maybe one in 100 voters had demobilization as one of their top 10 reasons for voting for Obammy.

I would say that Obama's reluctant use of military force is something that many Americans agree with. That is what I was alluding to, not specifically withdrawing from Iraq, but the idea that the move represents. I think very few people were interested in a multi-decade presence in Iraq, which the only way IMO the situation could have ever worked.

Has Obama ever taken blame for anything?

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses

half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.

yall always want to have it both ways.

Obama is recorded, since 2012, as saying HE pulled the troops out, at least 45 times during fundraisers and other events where he spoke. Now he says it was all Bush's fault that the troops came home. There is nothing both ways about it. He took all the credit and then flat out lied about it and asked why he was being blamed for pulling the troops home from Iraq. HELLO

(08-13-2014 09:57 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses

half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.

yall always want to have it both ways.

Obama is recorded, since 2012, as saying HE pulled the troops out, at least 45 times during fundraisers and other events where he spoke. Now he says it was all Bush's fault that the troops came home. There is nothing both ways about it. He took all the credit and then flat out lied about it and asked why he was being blamed for pulling the troops home from Iraq. HELLO

He only lies normally whenever he talks.

(08-13-2014 10:04 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:57 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 05:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Talk about being dumba.sses

half the cons on this forum pulled the "Obama shouldn't get credit for the withdrawal because the timeline was enacted under Bush" talking point.

yall always want to have it both ways.

Obama is recorded, since 2012, as saying HE pulled the troops out, at least 45 times during fundraisers and other events where he spoke. Now he says it was all Bush's fault that the troops came home. There is nothing both ways about it. He took all the credit and then flat out lied about it and asked why he was being blamed for pulling the troops home from Iraq. HELLO

He only lies normally whenever he talks.

It was pretty funny when I saw 40 to 45 clips of him saying that HE brought the troops home, HE did it, and then it showed his last conference where he was standing in front of the Presidential heli and had this bewildered look on his face and said "I don't know why everybody is blaming me for bringing the troops home, I didn't do it."

It's the "you didn't build that" logic.

(08-13-2014 10:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's the "you didn't build that" logic.

That's because HE built it, until it caves in or crumbles. Then, yep, you built that.