(04-23-2014 02:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:37 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Please dude. The case of drunk driving accidents would double. Most 18 year olds are still in High School. Get a grip on reality.

For that to be true there would have to be that number who are obeying the 18 age limit that would suddenly not obey the DUI law.

Either that or the people currently breaking the age law who are obeying the DUI law would suddenly stop obeying the DUI law when it became legal for them to drink.

Neither scenario seems to make sense.

Absolutely absurd. Your whole argument doesn't make sense. That was already tried in Louisiana and Texas and the amount of DUI related accidents skyrocket. I can't even believe there are people out there that actually think that is a good idea. We are truly stupid.

It is simple math that by adding more legal drinkers into the population, the rate of DUIs will go up. Take a younger demographic that is less responsible, and has even less good decision making skills, then add alcohol to the equation and the problem worsens exponentially.

Your argument is ridiculous and we have two examples to back it up. People like you are dangerous, dude. This isn't smart. I am hoping that you are just young.

(04-23-2014 02:57 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it pushed up to 25 y/o.

And you actually believe this will fix things why?

(04-23-2014 02:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:12 PM)supertiger Wrote:  I like a cold beer as much as the next person....

I even agree with an 18 year old drinking age.

I do think their needs to be reasonable restrictions on alcohol sales. Mainly, because alcohol does have some negative effects on society that need to be mitigated.

I think you are better off keeping the drinking age at 18 and making it contingent until 21 on attending the equivalent of "concealed carry" classes for alcohol use. With the privilege being suspended for 3 full years for anyone violating any alcohol/intoxicant law between those ages. Sort of training wheels for responsible use.

That will never fly of course, but it would encourage responsible use....instead of encouraging law-breaking like now.

So basically, you can't beat them, so give in and do what they want you to do and HOPE it sways them to be responsible... Just like weed.

That's the epitome of a young 90's parent.

(04-23-2014 02:56 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:18 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:11 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I know 18 year olds perfectly capable of drinking responsibly. I know 50 year olds who have never, and cannot now, do it.

You know, I hear you people make silly comments like that and talk about freedom and liberty, but IMO you are doing nothing more than aiding the left in the dumbing down of our country.

We get it. You like drugs and alcohol and think everyone regardless of age should indulge.

You know zero about me. Your attempt to dismiss what I have to say with your made up fantasy of what you want me to be is SOP.

What I don't like are idiots passing feel-good moralistic laws and disregarding all of the unintended consequences that follow from them.

Far too much governing based on feelings and emotions and dogma in the country than on reason and data.

Listen to the absurdity behind your statements. This is news to you like it is news to me. You automatically go into your libertarian rant about "moralistic laws" as if the 21 year old age restriction is new and oppressive to you freedom. As if you have been just livid and outraged at this new oppression being dolled out by the stifling govt that has you shackled a God damned concentration camp. Have some freaking respect for our youth for Christ sake. We have alcohol laws for a reason and they aren't to trample on your liberty.

You don't know crap about 18 year olds that are responsible enough to drink. This is just more dumbing down our culture with drugs and alcohol and calling it liberty.

This makes a lot of sense... People below 21 thinking they're victims of oppression because of the drinking age, weed smokers feeling like the victim of the law, etc... You weren't oppressed before, you're not oppressed now. What you have to do is stand in line and wait for your 21st birthday like the rest of us did or drink underage at your own risk. Same with marijuana. Smoke it at your own risk and be ready for the consequences if you're stupid enough to get busted with it.

I know. All these victims having all their liberties taken from them. They have to fight for their right to party. As if getting drunk and smoking a bowl is in the Constitution.

Complete lack of regard for all the people their actions affect.

(04-23-2014 02:58 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  It is simple math that by adding more legal drinkers into the population, the rate of DUIs will go up. Take a younger demographic that is less responsible, and has even less good decision making skills, then add alcohol to the equation and the problem worsens exponentially.

His point is that people are drinking in high school now. Those people are either driving or not driving now... making it legal for an 18 year old to drink isn't going to make them all the sudden start drinking and driving. Either they are doing it now or they wouldn't be.

(04-23-2014 02:45 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You don't know crap about 18 year olds that are responsible enough to drink. This is just more dumbing down our culture with drugs and alcohol and calling it liberty.

Yet, in this country, we have the highest percentage of 18 year olds binge drinking in the world. Prohibiting them from drinking at a younger age is obviously doing the job it was designed to do.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...eaths.html

Maybe we should rethink some of these old laws and see if we can stop making these actions "cool". Kids in Europe grow up knowing how to handle/respect their alcohol instead of getting smashed and doing stupid things.

So you're saying that making it legal for purchasing by an 18 y/o would decrease binge drinking and other alcoholic stupidity? Haha. NO, it wouldn't.

(04-23-2014 01:48 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is just great, let's just do away with any age restriction on drinking. While we are at it, Pedophilia, Beastially, polygamy, should all be ok, but no large sugary drinks or smoking cigarettes anywhere.

No, the age of consent and the age of responsibility should both be be 18.

(04-23-2014 03:00 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:58 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  It is simple math that by adding more legal drinkers into the population, the rate of DUIs will go up. Take a younger demographic that is less responsible, and has even less good decision making skills, then add alcohol to the equation and the problem worsens exponentially.

His point is that people are drinking in high school now. Those people are either driving or not driving now... making it legal for an 18 year old to drink isn't going to make them all the sudden start drinking and driving. Either they are doing it now or they wouldn't be.

Oh yeah, that's a great excuse. People are sneaking drinks in high school so we should just lower the drinking age. Wow. You and him together can't even form a rational thought.

Pure stupidity.

(04-23-2014 02:59 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:12 PM)supertiger Wrote:  I like a cold beer as much as the next person....

I even agree with an 18 year old drinking age.

I do think their needs to be reasonable restrictions on alcohol sales. Mainly, because alcohol does have some negative effects on society that need to be mitigated.

I think you are better off keeping the drinking age at 18 and making it contingent until 21 on attending the equivalent of "concealed carry" classes for alcohol use. With the privilege being suspended for 3 full years for anyone violating any alcohol/intoxicant law between those ages. Sort of training wheels for responsible use.

That will never fly of course, but it would encourage responsible use....instead of encouraging law-breaking like now.

So basically, you can't beat them, so give in and do what they want you to do and HOPE it sways them to be responsible... Just like weed.

That's the epitome of a young 90's parent.

Nope, you can't beat them. You can even go the Iran route if you want, but they still drink there. 18 year olds still drink here and always will. You can't stop it, you can only hope to manage it.

We have some of the most irresponsible 18-21 year old drinkers in the world. Why is that? Your law should have stopped it.

Fool yourself if you want.

(04-23-2014 03:02 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  So you're saying that making it legal for purchasing by an 18 y/o would decrease binge drinking and other alcoholic stupidity? Haha. NO, it wouldn't.

No, I'm saying that removing the whole prohibition mindset in this country would make drinking less "big of a deal" like it is in Europe and South America. Kids grow up where it isn't abnormal to have a glass of wine at dinner and learn how to responsibly handle it.

I'll never forget my Spanish teacher in college... she moved from Argentina to the United States to teach. She talked about how she was shocked at the different societal viewpoints on alcohol between the 2 countries. She talked about there being much less binge drinking and much more responsible drinkers, especially at a young age, in Argentina.

(04-23-2014 03:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 01:48 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is just great, let's just do away with any age restriction on drinking. While we are at it, Pedophilia, Beastially, polygamy, should all be ok, but no large sugary drinks or smoking cigarettes anywhere.

No, the age of consent and the age of responsibility should both be be 18.

Won't happen. Already been tried. Too many people died

(04-23-2014 02:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:37 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Please dude. The case of drunk driving accidents would double. Most 18 year olds are still in High School. Get a grip on reality.

For that to be true there would have to be that number who are obeying the 18 age limit that would suddenly not obey the DUI law.

Either that or the people currently breaking the age law who are obeying the DUI law would suddenly stop obeying the DUI law when it became legal for them to drink.

Neither scenario seems to make sense.

How about this... It's not a sure fire guaranteed fix so don't fuuck with it. Or would it be better, to you, to put millions of lives at risk just to see if the lowered age really does work? Leave it the hell alone and let the cops continue to pass out tickets and free cop car rides for breaking the law. If you're dumb enough to break the law, you deserve to spend the night in jail.

(04-23-2014 03:04 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Oh yeah, that's a great excuse. People are sneaking drinks in high school so we should just lower the drinking age. Wow. You and him together can't even form a rational thought.

Pure stupidity.

Sigh... you obviously can't understand straight forward logic.

Person A drinks underage, but doesn't drive because it is dangerous.

The gov't allows the person to now drink.

Person A then decides that, because it is legal to drink, it is no longer dangerous and thus drives around hammered.

Is that logical? That is what you are saying. If a person is responsible, it doesn't matter if it is legal for them to drink or not... they won't do it. If they are irresponsible, it doesn't matter if the legal age is 18, 21, or 25, they will get behind the wheel and be stupid. It won't make a significant difference in the number of people drinking and driving was the point that ark was saying.

(04-23-2014 02:58 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:37 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Please dude. The case of drunk driving accidents would double. Most 18 year olds are still in High School. Get a grip on reality.

For that to be true there would have to be that number who are obeying the 18 age limit that would suddenly not obey the DUI law.

Either that or the people currently breaking the age law who are obeying the DUI law would suddenly stop obeying the DUI law when it became legal for them to drink.

Neither scenario seems to make sense.

Absolutely absurd. Your whole argument doesn't make sense. That was already tried in Louisiana and Texas and the amount of DUI related accidents skyrocket. I can't even believe there are people out there that actually think that is a good idea. We are truly stupid.

It is simple math that by adding more legal drinkers into the population, the rate of DUIs will go up. Take a younger demographic that is less responsible, and has even less good decision making skills, then add alcohol to the equation and the problem worsens exponentially.

Your argument is ridiculous and we have two examples to back it up. People like you are dangerous, dude. This isn't smart. I am hoping that you are just young.

So at 18 you are old enough to consent for sex, enlist in the military, obtain debt, and sign a contract, but not have a beer? All I am asking for is consistency. Either raise the age of consent and the age of responsibility along with rights to 21 or lower the drinking age to 18. I don't care which, but it isn't right like this. Texas and Louisiana had to raise the drinking age because of financial extortion from the federal government and losing their highway money, not because it was a disaster.

(04-23-2014 03:08 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 03:04 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Oh yeah, that's a great excuse. People are sneaking drinks in high school so we should just lower the drinking age. Wow. You and him together can't even form a rational thought.

Pure stupidity.

Sigh... you obviously can't understand straight forward logic.

Person A drinks underage, but doesn't drive because it is dangerous.

The gov't allows the person to now drink.

Person A then decides that, because it is legal to drink, it is no longer dangerous and thus drives around hammered.

Is that logical? That is what you are saying. If a person is responsible, it doesn't matter if it is legal for them to drink or not... they won't do it. If they are irresponsible, it doesn't matter if the legal age is 18, 21, or 25, they will get behind the wheel and be stupid. It won't make a significant difference in the number of people drinking and driving was the point that ark was saying.

Wrong, because if alcohol can legally be sold to them, it is much easier to get their hands on it. I thought you were a man of logic.

(04-23-2014 03:06 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Leave it the hell alone and let the cops continue to pass out tickets and free cop car rides for breaking the law. If you're dumb enough to break the law, you deserve to spend the night in jail.

Or do illegal search and seizure through DUI "checkpoints" that are illegal now, especially the whole "no refusal" checkpoints. They are traps that cause a person to be guilty until they prove themselves innocent. Total BS.

(04-23-2014 03:02 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:45 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:23 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You don't know crap about 18 year olds that are responsible enough to drink. This is just more dumbing down our culture with drugs and alcohol and calling it liberty.

Yet, in this country, we have the highest percentage of 18 year olds binge drinking in the world. Prohibiting them from drinking at a younger age is obviously doing the job it was designed to do.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...eaths.html

Maybe we should rethink some of these old laws and see if we can stop making these actions "cool". Kids in Europe grow up knowing how to handle/respect their alcohol instead of getting smashed and doing stupid things.

So you're saying that making it legal for purchasing by an 18 y/o would decrease binge drinking and other alcoholic stupidity? Haha. NO, it wouldn't.

No, what is being argued is an 18 year old is responsible for their actions.

18 = legal adult = you can buy alcohol, booze, beer, wine etc.

I am all for the drinking age being 18. It used to to be the case here in Ohio. You could go to bars and drink beer.
For hard liquor it was 21 I believe.
Ohio, along with 41 other states, do allow alcohol consumption if you are under 21 (and usually at least 18).
An example would be, you are 18 and your parents have friends over (or not have friends over), your parents
are home....it is perfectly legal for the 18 year old to drink. Some states you can legally drink if you are
on non alcohol private property with zero parental supervision.

In other states, if you are with your parents, it is legal to drink at an alcohol selling premises, like a restaurant,
if you are under 21.
http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/YouthIss...1gbEaKwVmw
41 states
Key

1 = On alcohol-selling premises with parental consent

2 = On private non-alcohol-selling premises with parental consent

3 = On private non-alcohol-selling premises without need of parental consent

4 = For religious purposes

5 = For medical purposes

6 = For educational purposes

7 = For governmental purposes

8 = For good Samaritan purposes (reporting alcohol-related medical emergencies of other persons)

(04-23-2014 03:10 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Wrong, because if alcohol can legally be sold to them, it is much easier to get their hands on it. I thought you were a man of logic.

Hmm... I seem to remember having zero problems getting alcohol from the age of 15 on. I have friends who were getting into bars at 17 and drinking without a problem, no fake ID. It is not hard in this country to get alcohol at any age.

Hell, the Man Show put an 8 year old boy in front of a grocery store and got a guy to buy him beer. It is not hard to find alcohol if you want it.

(04-23-2014 02:59 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 02:57 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it pushed up to 25 y/o.

And you actually believe this will fix things why?

When did I ever say it would fix things? It WOULD, however, make it harder for roughly 30 million people to buy alcohol which, to me, is much better than making it EASIER for about 20 million people to buy alcohol.

Serious question, which makes more sense to you?