The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-07-2014 09:17 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 08:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Shane was behind McElroy, Washington, and TH and Bentley had a good chance of passing him after his redshirt year.

I watched every single play this past season, how the heck did David Washington not look good? He completed 70% of his passes for over 8 yards per attempt. No picks, 4 touchdowns.

Which games did he "not look good in?" The one vs. UNC when he threw 3 passes? The game vs. Howard where he hit Spellman on a perfect corner route? The deep bomb to Vaughn against Campbell in which case Heinicke said he probably can't make that throw?

Playing backups against Campbell and Howard don't count. He looked completely unusable in FBS comp. Did you really watch him or is this another case of burying our heads in the sand?

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He actually looked pretty good against Maryland. Had more success than TH in the short time he played, granted it was against their back ups.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

(01-07-2014 08:38 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Lets not let facts and stats get in the way of a good message board conversation:

Source: http://espn.go.com/ncf/qbr/_/qualified/false

36 David Washington, ODU 1.4 0.7 -0.3 0.0 1.7 60 84.2 74.8
37 Taylor Heinicke, ODU 92.5 23.6 -12.3 0.0 103.9 616 84.3 74.6
38 Chuckie Keeton, USU 32.8 6.5 -6.5 3.3 36.0 271 75.7 74.4
39 Brendon Kay, CIN 59.1 16.4 -10.2 3.4 68.8 505 76.8 74.2
40 Taylor Kelly, ASU 47.0 20.4 -21.1 3.7 49.8 694 61.5 74.2
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS RAW QBR ADJ QBR
41 Dylan Thompson, SCAR 10.3 1.6 -1.4 0.0 10.6 109 68.9 73.9
42 Stephen Morris, MIA 39.6 0.3 -10.9 2.9 31.8 425 60.5 73.7
43 B.J. Denker, ARIZ 35.8 28.5 -11.5 5.0 57.8 603 67.3 73.2
44 Bo Wallace, MISS 62.7 9.5 -15.1 0.2 57.3 618 63.7 72.9
45 Matt Joeckel, TA&M 4.4 -0.7 0.0 -0.2 3.6 42 68.8 72.4
46 Anthony Boone, DUKE 34.9 8.3 -5.4 -1.1 36.9 415 63.6 72.3
47 Rakeem Cato, MRSH 74.9 16.9 -14.5 4.9 82.2 654 75.3 71.9

I get where you're trying to go with this, but I'd be careful. The guy at the top of that list, Tim Byerly, went 1-for-4 for 3 yards this season. Without filtering qualified candidates, that stat is beyond misleading.

I don't think anyone on this board has seen enough of David Washington to say anything definitively about his potential one way or another. Further, he has until the spring of 2015 before he is expected to compete for a starting job. That's a lot of time to improve.

(01-07-2014 10:19 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  I don't think anyone on this board has seen enough of David Washington to say anything definitively about his potential one way or another. Further, he has until the spring of 2015 before he is expected to compete for a starting job. That's a lot of time to improve.

True.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

I think David is faster, stronger, taller, and a better athlete than any other QB we have. That's stuff you can't teach. I like the guy, but don't think he's starting in 2015...unless Plan A doesn't work and we're still on Plan A.

(01-07-2014 10:39 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  I think David is faster, stronger, taller, and a better athlete than any other QB we have. That's stuff you can't teach. I like the guy, but don't think he's starting in 2015...unless Plan A doesn't work and we're still on Plan A.

This. David has to get better with his reads and running through his progressions. He has worked very hard, but still has a ways to go.

I don't think any of our QBs are going to have the ability to sense the pressure and avoid it the way Taylor has. It's uncanny how he has this sixth sense. There is no telling how many of our wins this year would have been losses if Heinicke had not been able to avoid the rush.

There are two related elements that I've not seen discussed in a while in relation to past, present and future quarterbacks in the system. They deserve recognition here and should considered in relation to the future of the offense.

The first two-plus seasons, Thomas DeMarco was the starting quarterback. While he was more than adequate at the position, he was not the passer that Taylor Heinicke is. The spread offense, at least the first two seasons, was more run-oriented than today's offense because it fit the strength of DeMarco and other personnel on the offense to have a more balanced offense. DeMarco was the first Monarch to rush for at least 100 yards in consecutive games (done during the first year - I don't remember the games off the top of my head). He was a fantastic running QB.

During Heinicke's first game as starter at Rhode Island, coaches noted that the offense moved better with four wideouts. This was in no small part due to injuries at the RB position, but Heinicke himself - an elusive scrambler and effective runner - was a better passer than runner. From that point going forward, the coaching staff employed four-and-five WR sets and the run was de-emphasized. As the last couple years have played out, it should suffice to say that Heinicke is a better passer than DeMarco was.

So the success of the quarterbacks has been due not only to the individual talents of DeMarco and Heinicke, but the flexibility of the coaching staff. They didn't try to fit a square peg in a round hole with either QB.

The coaches recruit players that they want to fit in their system. After Heinicke graduates, they will mold the system to take advantage of the skill sets of whoever the next QB is, not to mention the talent of other "skill position" players. What if some of the 2014 recruits at running back turn out to be exceptional from Day One? Whether it's Washington, McElroy or Bentley at starter, the coaches may think that a run-oriented offense gives the team the best chance to win. Or maybe the next QB becomes a better passer than even Heinicke, and the running game becomes even less of a focal point.

Just my two cents' worth.

way too many pages for the fourth-string qb

(01-08-2014 12:36 PM)Leo Wrote:  way too many pages for the fourth-string qb

No, it isn't. This is basically the first we knew there was an issue. Until this news came out, I think most of us believed this guy was the QB of the future that was not dressing because he was redshirting to save a year of eligibility, not that he was the "fourth-string string QB"... so for most of us, this is big news worthy of discussion. There were some discussions earlier in the year when he stopped being on the sidelines for games. The questions were met with the usual vitriol from the usual suspects on here because we dare question what was going on beyond what we were being told. Ed Miller reported, and I am not sure if it was a story or a Tweet, that the departure from the sideline was simply due to the redshirt decision and not disciplinary or performance-based. The issue was dropped and now it has reemerged. Heinicke has one more year and we have shown no defense to speak of. Finding his replacement is quite a big deal to the medium term future of this program and unless we can muster a big time defense over the next season and a half, the replacement is going to have to put up some big numbers to stay competitive.

It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

^ this

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition. In my mind, one of them was going to be the heir apparent. Losing one is disappointing to me. I'm not blaming anyone for it, but that leaves us one FBS recruit for when TH graduates and he'll be a RS freshman and we obviously have know idea if he will boom or bust. Washington and McElroy are FCS recruits. We need someone with the arm strength to make FBS throws against FBS DBs. Based on what I saw last year, I'm not even sure Heinicke has the strength to do it, much less either of the guys on the bench, but at lease he has the vision to shred some of the weaker defenses.

(01-08-2014 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition. In my mind, one of them was going to be the heir apparent. Losing one is disappointing to me. I'm not blaming anyone for it, but that leaves us one FBS recruit for when TH graduates and he'll be a RS freshman and we obviously have know idea if he will boom or bust. Washington and McElroy are FCS recruits. We need someone with the arm strength to make FBS throws against FBS DBs. Based on what I saw last year, I'm not even sure Heinicke has the strength to do it, much less either of the guys on the bench, but at lease he has the vision to shred some of the weaker defenses.

u mean f_u, la tech, and temple? hardly the college elite! of course we don't know who will boom or bust (with the exception of washington, because he won't "pan out," isn't that right?) look at th! how many fcs schools offered him a scholly, and he turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, shattering long-standing records with ease. like i've been saying all along, hs highlight videos and scholarship offered lists that include the schools listed above does not mean he'll be a good fbs qb. iow, mccarley is replaceable. and as far as arm strength, it was reported that mccarley regularly missed wide open receivers in practice. the qb with the strongest arm currently on our roster is washington, the fcs recruit.

(01-08-2014 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition.

Same with Reamon. You saw how that turned out, didn't you? These recruiting rankings are shots in the dark at best.

(01-08-2014 02:01 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 12:58 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  It was a bigger deal months ago when he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they had hoped for. It should not be a surprise nor a negative that he is choosing to leave.

How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition. In my mind, one of them was going to be the heir apparent. Losing one is disappointing to me. I'm not blaming anyone for it, but that leaves us one FBS recruit for when TH graduates and he'll be a RS freshman and we obviously have know idea if he will boom or bust. Washington and McElroy are FCS recruits. We need someone with the arm strength to make FBS throws against FBS DBs. Based on what I saw last year, I'm not even sure Heinicke has the strength to do it, much less either of the guys on the bench, but at lease he has the vision to shred some of the weaker defenses.

u mean f_u, la tech, and temple? hardly the college elite! of course we don't know who will boom or bust (with the exception of washington, because he won't "pan out," isn't that right?) look at th! how many fcs schools offered him a scholly, and he turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, shattering long-standing records with ease. like i've been saying all along, hs highlight videos and scholarship offered lists that include the schools listed above does not mean he'll be a good fbs qb. iow, mccarley is replaceable. and as far as arm strength, it was reported that mccarley regularly missed wide open receivers in practice. the qb with the strongest arm currently on our roster is washington, the fcs recruit.

Good, you finally see the problem...

Also while TH turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, he looked pretty average trying to make plays against MD and UNC DBs. Bury your head all you want, but we need either a QB that can put up 40 points per game or a defense that can hold opponents to 20 or we could be looking at a 2-10 team 2 years down the road.

(01-08-2014 02:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 02:01 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  How was one to know he was not living up to his hype and becoming what they hoped for? We were told nothing to to see here move along. Did I miss something between the Miller brush off months ago and this story? Or was it unwritten common knowledge like Blaine's problems? If so, I apologize for the ranting, but until yesterday, I was still under the impression he was going to be the guy.

anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition. In my mind, one of them was going to be the heir apparent. Losing one is disappointing to me. I'm not blaming anyone for it, but that leaves us one FBS recruit for when TH graduates and he'll be a RS freshman and we obviously have know idea if he will boom or bust. Washington and McElroy are FCS recruits. We need someone with the arm strength to make FBS throws against FBS DBs. Based on what I saw last year, I'm not even sure Heinicke has the strength to do it, much less either of the guys on the bench, but at lease he has the vision to shred some of the weaker defenses.

u mean f_u, la tech, and temple? hardly the college elite! of course we don't know who will boom or bust (with the exception of washington, because he won't "pan out," isn't that right?) look at th! how many fcs schools offered him a scholly, and he turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, shattering long-standing records with ease. like i've been saying all along, hs highlight videos and scholarship offered lists that include the schools listed above does not mean he'll be a good fbs qb. iow, mccarley is replaceable. and as far as arm strength, it was reported that mccarley regularly missed wide open receivers in practice. the qb with the strongest arm currently on our roster is washington, the fcs recruit.

Good, you finally see the problem...

Also while TH turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, he looked pretty average trying to make plays against MD and UNC DBs. Bury your head all you want, but we need either a QB that can put up 40 points per game or a defense that can hold opponents to 20 or we could be looking at a 2-10 team 2 years down the road.

While I agree with almost all of that, I feel like you are missing something. Those players were recruited at the CAA level and were excellent CAA players. I have confidence that the players Wilder is recruiting at the CUSA level will also be good at their level. I don't think it is really fair to look at the upgrade in opponents, without considering the potential upgrade in our own talent.

(01-08-2014 02:40 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 02:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 02:01 PM)Leo Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 01:26 PM)Leo Wrote:  anointing him as the second-coming of th before he even enrolled at odu was the problem.

McCarley and Bentley were high level recruits for us and we landed them against FBS competition. In my mind, one of them was going to be the heir apparent. Losing one is disappointing to me. I'm not blaming anyone for it, but that leaves us one FBS recruit for when TH graduates and he'll be a RS freshman and we obviously have know idea if he will boom or bust. Washington and McElroy are FCS recruits. We need someone with the arm strength to make FBS throws against FBS DBs. Based on what I saw last year, I'm not even sure Heinicke has the strength to do it, much less either of the guys on the bench, but at lease he has the vision to shred some of the weaker defenses.

u mean f_u, la tech, and temple? hardly the college elite! of course we don't know who will boom or bust (with the exception of washington, because he won't "pan out," isn't that right?) look at th! how many fcs schools offered him a scholly, and he turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, shattering long-standing records with ease. like i've been saying all along, hs highlight videos and scholarship offered lists that include the schools listed above does not mean he'll be a good fbs qb. iow, mccarley is replaceable. and as far as arm strength, it was reported that mccarley regularly missed wide open receivers in practice. the qb with the strongest arm currently on our roster is washington, the fcs recruit.

Good, you finally see the problem...

Also while TH turned out to be the best player in fcs in '12, he looked pretty average trying to make plays against MD and UNC DBs. Bury your head all you want, but we need either a QB that can put up 40 points per game or a defense that can hold opponents to 20 or we could be looking at a 2-10 team 2 years down the road.

While I agree with almost all of that, I feel like you are missing something. Those players were recruited at the CAA level and were excellent CAA players. I have confidence that the players Wilder is recruiting at the CUSA level will also be good at their level. I don't think it is really fair to look at the upgrade in opponents, without considering the potential upgrade in our own talent.

We'll see what happens. I am just concerned at this point. Obviously the defensive woes are well documented. Considering about 10 of the 11 defensive starters have little business playing at this level, even if we have a defense full of BCS recruits coming in, it will take some time to develop a defensive system. If the offense starts to falter alongside trying to build a defense, we could be very bad.