(01-14-2013 10:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  Weren't most of those wins in the last three years?

He won one game against ranked opponents with Tic's talent right?

Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

Ok and Pastner has elite talent and STILL can't beat anyone. So what does that say about him? At least Cal won with elite talent.

Elite talent? I find it hard to believe that you watch basketball outside of Tiger bb. We have a collection of good players and that's not a diss to them.

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:35 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  The difference between those Calipari teams and the Pastner teams is that Calipari's teams would usually win several big games during their non-conference slate while also rolling through C-USA, thus garnering either a #1 or #2 seed and making it easier to get the winning rolling in the Dance against first a crappy opponent, then a slightly better one and then the good ones.

Pastner's teams struggle against the quality non-conference opponents and lose three or so C-USA games and get a poor seeding, thus they have to start out against a quality opponent in the Dance, making it much more difficult to get rolling and advance.

This is obvious. The only difference in the Cal and Pastner eras is Cal and Pastner. One could win big games, the other can't. Has nothing to do with schedules.

Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

You can't be serious. Pastner inherited a team full of players that struggled with the last coach and a lack of depth. Luckily we landed Elliot Williams or that season could of been not as good.

(01-14-2013 11:03 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Babs = Latilleon

Where did Babs go? I need her to fix me a sammich!

(01-15-2013 07:52 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

Ok and Pastner has elite talent and STILL can't beat anyone. So what does that say about him? At least Cal won with elite talent.

Elite talent? I find it hard to believe that you watch basketball outside of Tiger bb. We have a collection of good players and that's not a diss to them.

But, our recent recruiting classes are annually up there with [or above] the "elite"

(01-15-2013 07:52 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

Ok and Pastner has elite talent and STILL can't beat anyone. So what does that say about him? At least Cal won with elite talent.

Elite talent? I find it hard to believe that you watch basketball outside of Tiger bb. We have a collection of good players and that's not a diss to them.

We have Elite talent.

Just because other coaches can make good players out of their normal talent and Pastner makes normal players out of elite players doesnt change that we have elite talent.

Pretty sure we had one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the past two seasons, you know when we didn't win a game in the tournament.

(01-14-2013 09:10 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  A poor conference didn't seem to hurt Cal's teams in the tournament. How was he able to keep our guys focused during conference play enough to win 65 straight CUSA games and then win games against big time teams in the NCAA tourney? Something Pastner can't seem to do. It's not about the conference. It's about the coaching.

ahhh the myopia...

I'll wait while you look it up, copernicus...

(01-15-2013 01:37 AM)lenetzach Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:19 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:14 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas, Elliot Williams.

One out of 3 ain't too bad.

Barton was the 9th rated player coming out of High School. I think Elliot was 11th. Any five star is a player who could have gone to the NBA after their first year.

The ONE you are referring hasn't panned out to well. I doubt he gets drafted right now.

Bolded statement is not accurate.

Criteria for drafting NBA players are not the same as comparing high school players to one another.

I'm saying any five star has the potential to be a one and done. Adonis Thomas was considered to be a lottery pick this year. I know he's a sophomore but that was because of injury. OK so our guys didn't pan out as one and dones. Most felt Adonis was coming out of High School.

(01-15-2013 08:47 AM)TN_Tiger Wrote:  Pretty sure we had one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the past two seasons, you know when we didn't win a game in the tournament.

Yeah, right

And, it will get even tougher now that we have added Harvard

(01-15-2013 07:52 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

Ok and Pastner has elite talent and STILL can't beat anyone. So what does that say about him? At least Cal won with elite talent.

Elite talent? I find it hard to believe that you watch basketball outside of Tiger bb. We have a collection of good players and that's not a diss to them.

YES, ELITE TALENT!

Nearly every program in the country would've signed Joe Jackson, Shaq, Adonis, Tarik, Crawford and Geron (if not for his sticky fingers), if given the chance. And those players were offered scholarships by the best programs in the country. Not to mention Stan was recruited by Kansas among others. Hip by Maryland among others....Damien top 100......etc.

These players were big time talents when they arrived. It is up to the coach to mold them into a big time team. Just because he hasn't done so doesn't mean every player we have was overrated and they were just "good" players all along.

You must look at our team and think the players are all not as good as everyone in the country who knows basketball thought they were. I look at our team as a team with top 15 talent who is being coached by someone who has no idea how to get the most out of them.

(01-15-2013 08:08 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:35 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  The difference between those Calipari teams and the Pastner teams is that Calipari's teams would usually win several big games during their non-conference slate while also rolling through C-USA, thus garnering either a #1 or #2 seed and making it easier to get the winning rolling in the Dance against first a crappy opponent, then a slightly better one and then the good ones.

Pastner's teams struggle against the quality non-conference opponents and lose three or so C-USA games and get a poor seeding, thus they have to start out against a quality opponent in the Dance, making it much more difficult to get rolling and advance.

This is obvious. The only difference in the Cal and Pastner eras is Cal and Pastner. One could win big games, the other can't. Has nothing to do with schedules.

Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

You can't be serious. Pastner inherited a team full of players that struggled with the last coach and a lack of depth. Luckily we landed Elliot Williams or that season could of been not as good.

Whether he fell into his lap or not, Elliot was on the team in Josh's first season. And Elliot was twice as good as anyone on Cal's first team.

(01-15-2013 08:16 AM)herkermer Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:03 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Babs = Latilleon

Where did Babs go? I need her to fix me a sammich!

Oooh, lookie. Another sexist neanderthal. Is that the best you can do?

(01-15-2013 09:23 AM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 08:08 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  This is obvious. The only difference in the Cal and Pastner eras is Cal and Pastner. One could win big games, the other can't. Has nothing to do with schedules.

Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

You can't be serious. Pastner inherited a team full of players that struggled with the last coach and a lack of depth. Luckily we landed Elliot Williams or that season could of been not as good.

Whether he fell into his lap or not, Elliot was on the team in Josh's first season. And Elliot was twice as good as anyone on Cal's first team.

Throw in there the name recognition and exposure over those 4 years, Josh had it MUCH easier than most coaches to take over at Memphis.

No doubt about it.

(01-15-2013 09:33 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 09:23 AM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 08:08 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

You can't be serious. Pastner inherited a team full of players that struggled with the last coach and a lack of depth. Luckily we landed Elliot Williams or that season could of been not as good.

Whether he fell into his lap or not, Elliot was on the team in Josh's first season. And Elliot was twice as good as anyone on Cal's first team.

Throw in there the name recognition and exposure over those 4 years, Josh had it MUCH easier than most coaches to take over at Memphis.

He also landed at Memphis at a time when there was more talent coming out of Memphis then ever...and due to Cal most of these kids were Memphis fans due to our recent success if that is not a huge plus in recruiting I don't know what is...

The Memphis core has helped him recruit every year because Talent wants to play with talent...And that all began with JJ...If JJ doesn't commit we probably don't land Black or CC.

(01-15-2013 09:23 AM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 08:08 AM)Crazier Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  This is obvious. The only difference in the Cal and Pastner eras is Cal and Pastner. One could win big games, the other can't. Has nothing to do with schedules.

Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

You can't be serious. Pastner inherited a team full of players that struggled with the last coach and a lack of depth. Luckily we landed Elliot Williams or that season could of been not as good.

Whether he fell into his lap or not, Elliot was on the team in Josh's first season. And Elliot was twice as good as anyone on Cal's first team.

Maybe in NBA potential, but I'd take Kelly Wise for my college team over Elliot Williams.

(01-14-2013 09:52 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:35 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  The difference between those Calipari teams and the Pastner teams is that Calipari's teams would usually win several big games during their non-conference slate while also rolling through C-USA, thus garnering either a #1 or #2 seed and making it easier to get the winning rolling in the Dance against first a crappy opponent, then a slightly better one and then the good ones.

Pastner's teams struggle against the quality non-conference opponents and lose three or so C-USA games and get a poor seeding, thus they have to start out against a quality opponent in the Dance, making it much more difficult to get rolling and advance.

This is obvious. The only difference in the Cal and Pastner eras is Cal and Pastner. One could win big games, the other can't. Has nothing to do with schedules.

Calipari during his first five years at Memphis won very few big games, unless you include NIT games as "big games." Calipari was 7-22 (.241) vs. ranked opponents as Memphis head coach from 2000-01 to 2004-05.

I'm talking about after Cal got the program rolling. Not the Price/Jones disaster that Cal inherited. Pastner inherited the greatest run in Tiger history that Cal built. The one that was a top 10 program when he arrived.

Pastner inherited a mess when Calipari left. Calipari inherited a pretty talented team in 2000-01 and still lost 15 games.

I don't agree with that. The team Cal inherited hadn't been to the NCAA tournament since the 1995-96 season and the Pyramid was at best half full and donations were in the tank. Kelly Wise may have been talented, but he spent more time in the back bar at Denim & Diamonds than he did working on his game.

(01-15-2013 09:21 AM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  YES, ELITE TALENT!

Nearly every program in the country would've signed Joe Jackson, Shaq, Adonis, Tarik, Crawford and Geron (if not for his sticky fingers), if given the chance. And those players were offered scholarships by the best programs in the country. Not to mention Stan was recruited by Kansas among others. Hip by Maryland among others....Damien top 100......etc.

These players were big time talents when they arrived. It is up to the coach to mold them into a big time team. Just because he hasn't done so doesn't mean every player we have was overrated and they were just "good" players all along.

You must look at our team and think the players are all not as good as everyone in the country who knows basketball thought they were. I look at our team as a team with top 15 talent who is being coached by someone who has no idea how to get the most out of them.

Pastner’s problem the past 3 years was having only ONE GOOD BIG. He also had an undersized out-of-position PF in Spoon.

You’re not going to win games against top 25 teams with that frontcourt, and his only true big (Black) was/is foul prone. Cal had Dorsey & Dozier and later Tag. In every game against a top opponent the same thing happened. Black either got in serious foul trouble and had to sit, or fouled out.

What happened in the Arizona & ST Louis games? Black spent much of his time on the bench especially in crunch time when we really needed him. If he stays in the games we probably win both.

This board if filled with threads about we can’t win big games and for 3 years I’ve been replying what the primary problem is. Tiger fans complain that Josh, JJ, CC, Adonis (ect) can’t compete against elite talent when the answer is in the paint. Josh couldn’t do anything because his solution was sitting on the bench.

Again, it ain’t rocket science.

Will Coleman got a bad rap here. He wasn't that bad.

(01-15-2013 10:44 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Will Coleman got a bad rap here. He wasn't that bad.

Coleman played hard but struggled to score and rebound.

I like Will and commend him for his commitment but those are the facts. Please don’t mention Niles.