(01-14-2013 10:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:39 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:32 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:02 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  Are you trying to say that Cal inherited a better situation than Pastner? LOL!!

You can't be serious.

As far as returning talent, absolutely. Calipari had Kelly Wise, Marcus Moody, Shannon Forman, Scooter McFadgon, Shyrone Chatman, Earl Barron, Shamel Jones, Courtney Trask and Paris London sitting there waiting for him when he arrived.

Pastner had Wesley Witherspoon, Roburt Sallie, Doneal Mack, Willie Kemp and Pierre Henderson-Niles.

It's not even close.

I think it's a question of the state of the program versus the players that each coach inherited.

Exactly. There is no comparison between the Memphis program when Cal arrived (UAB level or worse) and the Memphis program when Pastner arrived (top 10 nationally, think Kansas, UNC, Duke, that's where we were).

You weren't expecting him to maintain 30-win seasons and at least Sweet 16's every year were you? He didn't exactly run the thing into the ground. He is averaging 25 wins a year and wins at a 73% clip. I agree that his big problem is beating top 25 opponents and winning NCAA tournament games, but it is not as though we are back to 1999.

No. I expected him to beat at least a couple of ranked teams by now and beat St Louis. We had much more talent than St Louis and if the coaches were reversed, the Majerus led Memphis team would've beat the Pastner led SLU team by 30.

I didn't expect to beat Arizona.

Oh and I also expected him to not lose to SMU, Rice and ECU. I'm not asking for a whole lot here.

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  Are you kidding? Cal had 2 straight Elite 8's, a title game appearance and a Sweet 16. That's 4 runs in this exact same conference. And oh yeah, he won 65 straight CUSA games to boot.

It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

(01-14-2013 10:33 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  Weren't most of those wins in the last three years?

He won one game against ranked opponents with Tic's talent right?

Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

OK they had talent. A bunch of talented misfits. Eventually Cal brought in his kind of guys. Josh had talent to work with to. I really think his best year to date was his first year. Since then he's been anything but inspiring.

Watch Tom Thibedeau of the Derrick Roseless Chicago Bulls coach a game once in a while and compare him to anybody. Its amazing to watch. He's like the gold standard. Coaching is coaching. I don't care what level you coach at (Tibs just blasted Atlanta by 40.).

Great coaches see things before they happen. Josh doesn't. He's wooden. Not John Wooden. Wooden as in the thing paper is made of.

I will say that Pastner has not impressed...But one thing that has always been an issue with his last 3 teams is effort...First team played plenty hard.

There are two ways to think of that...
1) Pastner does not know how to inspire effort from his guys and the first year the guys knew how to play because of Cal
2) The four Memphis kids that played AAU together have attitude issues that cause effort problems. It appears that other players appear to play harder (DJ, Shaq, Wilson and Geron). We will know for certain next year.

Pastners core guys all came from the same city had the same coaches etc... If next year he has the same issues it is 100% on him when he has the talent to replace them.

You can't 100% know Pastner is the cause because of the Memphis 4 and he should get another year regardless of how he finishes in the tourney this year. It could be Pastner has mismanaged them or it could be they just don't play hard all the time or it could be a little of both.

LOL

yall ninjas postin in a troll thread.

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  Are you kidding? Cal had 2 straight Elite 8's, a title game appearance and a Sweet 16. That's 4 runs in this exact same conference. And oh yeah, he won 65 straight CUSA games to boot.

It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

That team was not all freshmen and the freshmen that were part of the team were certainly were not just "a bunch of freshmen." How many of them were NBA first round picks? By the way, Pastner has won a NIT game (over St. John's). He barely lost to a #5 seed as a #12 seed in his second season as a coach and he lost to a #9 seed in an 8/9 game. Not exactly some sort of humiliating disgrace. Some of you act as though Pastner's record at Memphis is down there with Moe Iba and Tic Price.

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  Are you kidding? Cal had 2 straight Elite 8's, a title game appearance and a Sweet 16. That's 4 runs in this exact same conference. And oh yeah, he won 65 straight CUSA games to boot.

It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

No, they were comparing John Calipari (at MEmphis) to Josh Pastner. I don't know who you're talking about though.

(01-14-2013 10:52 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:33 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:20 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:11 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:56 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Calipari was 0-4 vs. ranked teams in 2000-01.

Calipari was 0-3 vs. ranked teams in 2001-02.

Calipari was 2-2 vs. ranked teams in 2002-03.

Calipari was 2-5 vs. ranked teams in 2003-04.

Calipari was 3-8 vs. ranked teams in 2004-05.

Calipari inherited a train wreck. Pastner inherited a legacy. Memphis was NOT a brand name when Cal came to town. Not even close. Memphis was when Josh took the team. How do you think Josh got the recruits he did? Barton came here thinking Josh was a "wiz kid" (That's what his bio was----remember?) and Memphis was MEMPHIS!

This idea Josh had nothing to work with is just not true. Yeah he had Cals leftovers somewhat and a great player from Duke. Josh was Cals waterboy. He came into a great situation for him. Nobody expected anything. That's what they got. Four years running. Great recruiting and less than mediocre coaching and handling of player personnel.

I'm still stinging from how he got the team prepared for the Bahamas. Its like Deja-Vu all over again.

Calipari inherited a program in the toilet, but that doesn't mean he did not inherit talent. He had good talent when he walked in the door and still lost 15 games. Calipari is not some bench coach genius. He wins big because of elite talent. When he doesn't have it, he struggles. Pretty much all coaches are that way. Very few are able to coach up subpar talent and still win at a good level (none can take subpar talent and win 30+ games a year).

OK they had talent. A bunch of talented misfits. Eventually Cal brought in his kind of guys. Josh had talent to work with to. I really think his best year to date was his first year. Since then he's been anything but inspiring.

Watch Tom Thibedeau of the Derrick Roseless Chicago Bulls coach a game once in a while and compare him to anybody. Its amazing to watch. He's like the gold standard. Coaching is coaching. I don't care what level you coach at (Tibs just blasted Atlanta by 40.).

Great coaches see things before they happen. Josh doesn't. He's wooden. Not John Wooden. Wooden as in the thing paper is made of.

I will say that Pastner has not impressed...But one thing that has always been an issue with his last 3 teams is effort...First team played plenty hard.

There are two ways to think of that...
1) Pastner does not know how to inspire effort from his guys and the first year the guys knew how to play because of Cal
2) The four Memphis kids that played AAU together have attitude issues that cause effort problems. It appears that other players appear to play harder (DJ, Shaq, Wilson and Geron). We will know for certain next year.

Pastners core guys all came from the same city had the same coaches etc... If next year he has the same issues it is 100% on him when he has the talent to replace them.

You can't 100% know Pastner is the cause because of the Memphis 4 and he should get another year regardless of how he finishes in the tourney this year. It could be Pastner has mismanaged them or it could be they just don't play hard all the time or it could be a little of both.

There are certainly some issues with effort, desire, respect, etc. I still say give him 5 full years and then you make the decision.

(01-14-2013 10:08 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:58 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:54 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:43 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Cals last year his team didn't win anything outside of conference unless you want to count Gonzaga and UT.

That team had 15 top 100 RPI wins. That team was on a 27-game winning streak on Selection Sunday. That team got a #2 seed. Whole different animal compared to any of Pastner's teams.

It is much easier to get that first win and get on a roll in the Dance (even if you are coming out of a weak conference) when you are seeded #1 or #2.

1 top 25 (#25) wins 4 top 50 wins. They were 4-3 vs. the top 50.

They still received a #2 seed. That's my whole point. A #1 or #2 seed from a crappy conference is in a much better position to win games in the Dance than a #12 or #8 seed from a crappy conference (or any conference for that matter).

This is the first team that has margin for error in conference...they should be able to easily survive all conference games even if someone gets in foul trouble or is off...They could very possibly go undefeated to finish the season which sets them up for the second weekend without having to face a dominating team.

We should have made it to the 2nd round last year because we sure didn't play a dominating team in the 1st round..

(01-14-2013 10:55 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

That team was not all freshmen and they certainly were not just "a bunch of freshmen." How many of them were NBA first round picks? By the way, Pastner has won a NIT game (over St. John's). He barely lost to a #5 seed as a #12 seed in his second season as a coach and he lost to a #9 seed in an 8/9 game. Not exactly some sort of humiliating disgrace. Some of you act as though Pastner's record at Memphis is down there with Moe Iba and Tic Price.

I forgot the St Johns game. I was thinking about Ole Miss when I wrote that.

I don't think Cal would have won a NC without Davis and Gilchrist though. Regardless, comparing Cal to Josh is outlandish imo. Josh was mentored by Olsen and Calipari too by the way. Didn't seem to learn much.

Babs = Latilleon

(01-14-2013 11:03 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:55 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

That team was not all freshmen and they certainly were not just "a bunch of freshmen." How many of them were NBA first round picks? By the way, Pastner has won a NIT game (over St. John's). He barely lost to a #5 seed as a #12 seed in his second season as a coach and he lost to a #9 seed in an 8/9 game. Not exactly some sort of humiliating disgrace. Some of you act as though Pastner's record at Memphis is down there with Moe Iba and Tic Price.

I forgot the St Johns game. I was thinking about Ole Miss when I wrote that.

I don't think Cal would have won a NC without Davis and Gilchrist though. Regardless, comparing Cal to Josh is outlandish imo. Josh was mentored by Olsen and Calipari too by the way. Didn't seem to learn much.

You seem to forget Calipari's #1 recruiter also.

Yes, because all those freshmen are now in the NBA making bank. It wasn't 4 years of good college coaching that got them there. They were going no matter what. Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:25 PM)Tiger Babs Wrote:  Are you kidding? Cal had 2 straight Elite 8's, a title game appearance and a Sweet 16. That's 4 runs in this exact same conference. And oh yeah, he won 65 straight CUSA games to boot.

It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

(01-14-2013 11:05 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:03 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:55 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

That team was not all freshmen and they certainly were not just "a bunch of freshmen." How many of them were NBA first round picks? By the way, Pastner has won a NIT game (over St. John's). He barely lost to a #5 seed as a #12 seed in his second season as a coach and he lost to a #9 seed in an 8/9 game. Not exactly some sort of humiliating disgrace. Some of you act as though Pastner's record at Memphis is down there with Moe Iba and Tic Price.

I forgot the St Johns game. I was thinking about Ole Miss when I wrote that.

I don't think Cal would have won a NC without Davis and Gilchrist though. Regardless, comparing Cal to Josh is outlandish imo. Josh was mentored by Olsen and Calipari too by the way. Didn't seem to learn much.

You seem to forget Calipari's #1 recruiter also.

Kentucky?

No I didn't forget WWW. Pastner has 3 five star recruits. WWW had nothing to do with that.

Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas.

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas, Elliot Williams.

One out of 3 ain't too bad.

(01-14-2013 11:14 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas, Elliot Williams.

One out of 3 ain't too bad.

Oops... scratch Williams off also, he played at Duke before coming here.

So nope. Try again.

(01-14-2013 10:55 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:51 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:47 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  Yes he would have. Everyone forgets the added benifit that having some great players on your team like AA, Rose and Evans creates. Everyone else on your team has to practice against them every day. This makes everyone better (especially on defense) and allows for an intensity that can not be replicated in our conference period. How many times during that era did we sit there an say "our 2nd team could smoke these guys" even against good teams? The coaches might teach you some things and develop a plan but nothing develops intesity and drive like the guy between you and the basket (and I say this as a coach who has coached athletes to national championships in 3 different sports). The guys Pastner has had so far are not as good as the guys Cal had during the run. And they still won't be even next year. I do think next year you will see a whole new level of intensity because top to bottom everyone can challenge everyone.

(01-14-2013 09:47 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 09:39 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  It easier to do such things when you have a first team All-American (CDR), one of the best all-around players in Tiger history (Anderson), a top pick in the draft (Rose) followed by a lottery pick in the draft (Evans). Pastner has talented teams, but they are not at the same level of Calipari's last four seasons.

But they are still beyond anything else in the conference. Would Cal have lost any conference games in 11,12, & 13 with the same rosters that Pastner has had?

Are we really comparing a guy who took a bunch of Freshman and won a national championship to a guy who hasn't won an NIT game yet in four years with five star recruits?

SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!

That team was not all freshmen and the freshmen that were part of the team were certainly were not just "a bunch of freshmen." How many of them were NBA first round picks? By the way, Pastner has won a NIT game (over St. John's). He barely lost to a #5 seed as a #12 seed in his second season as a coach and he lost to a #9 seed in an 8/9 game. Not exactly some sort of humiliating disgrace. Some of you act as though Pastner's record at Memphis is down there with Moe Iba and Tic Price.

KY's 2011-12 national championship starting roster

Starting lineup: Anthony Davis, C, FR; Terrence Jones, PF, SO; Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, SF, FR; Doron Lamb, SG, SO; Marquis Teague, PG, FR

Some point to the leadership of senior, backup SF Darius Miller as a key to KY's successful season.

(01-14-2013 11:14 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas, Elliot Williams.

One out of 3 ain't too bad.

Barton was the 9th rated player coming out of High School. I think Elliot was 11th. Any five star is a player who could have gone to the NBA after their first year.

The ONE you are referring hasn't panned out to well. I doubt he gets drafted right now.

(01-14-2013 11:14 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:14 PM)NTMB Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 11:12 PM)Chi-TownTiger Wrote:  Who is truely a "1 and done" automatic that JP has gotten? Your question actually makes my point for me.


Will Barton, Adonis Thomas, Elliot Williams.

One out of 3 ain't too bad.

Oops... scratch Williams off also, he played at Duke before coming here.

So nope. Try again.

Same concept...One and done for Memphis is still one and Done. They are talking the amount of talent recruited to the floor...And Williams was one and done quality. Adonis Thomas was not even close...Thomas would have fallen like a rock last year when the workouts started.