(12-21-2012 09:25 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:12 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:04 AM)missjtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:01 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  Cal never, ever stressed steals. He was far more concerned being in the right position, forcing contested shots and not over-playing passing lanes.

wow...and all this time I thought stealing the ball was a large part of defense.

It Depends. It you gamble for steals and don't come up with them then you usually give up an easy bucket. Chris averages more steals per game than Antonio Anderson did. Who would you rather have guarding the 2.

#dropsmic

pretending like he made a good point doesn't make it so.

No one was arguing if CC was better than AA. And no one suggested his steal averages did either.

He was suggesting CC doesn't play good D, and the stats and the eye test show that to be flat wrong.

It was classic misdirection people do when they don't have a good argument.

"Hey, I wouldn't start him over our best defensive 2 guard ever so therefore he sucks on D."

lol

It is an utter fallacy that Chris is a good defender. He gets beat off the dribble more than any other guard we have. Most of his "steals" come from reaching from behind after his man has beaten him and is heading to the basket. He still commits way too many silly turnovers, most of the time from trying the fancy pass. Time to bench Chris and start Geron...period.

(12-21-2012 09:29 AM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  It is an utter fallacy that Chris is a good defender. He gets beat off the dribble more than any other guard we have. Most of his "steals" come from reaching from behind after his man has beaten him and is heading to the basket. He still commits way too many silly turnovers, most of the time from trying the fancy pass. Time to bench Chris and start Geron...period.

I would like to see Geron start over him.

Totally agree with that.

It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

(12-21-2012 06:17 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  31 minutes against Lipscomb and ZERO FT attempts. 0-11 for the game. 2-23 the last 2 games and ZERO FT attempts in over 63 combined minutes on the floor.

WTF??????????????

Thank God he played some good D, but this is getting crazy.

shooters will shoot their average. he will even out before the year is over.

DeCourcy was killing Chris last night on Twitter. Talked about him losing his man on D.

(12-21-2012 09:29 AM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  It is an utter fallacy that Chris is a good defender. He gets beat off the dribble more than any other guard we have. Most of his "steals" come from reaching from behind after his man has beaten him and is heading to the basket. He still commits way too many silly turnovers, most of the time from trying the fancy pass. Time to bench Chris and start Geron...period.

Chris plays good defense. He doesn't get beat off the dribble as much as say, Barton, and Geron got beat quite a bit off the dribble last night as well. He's a good on-ball defender and OUR BEST off-the-ball defender, which is actually where the majority of his steals come from (staying with his man when he doesn't have the ball and being in good position to poke passes away).

Chris is actually committing the least amount of turnovers of any of our guards, by far.

But until his shot starts falling and he can bring more energy on offense, Geron Johnson should start seeing Chris' minutes.

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

(12-21-2012 09:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

Glad someone else was seeing that too.

The coaches aren't playing Chris for his offense right now. They obviously like his D too.

(12-21-2012 09:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

Ok. My bad. Chris is great.

$nicker

(12-21-2012 09:15 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:12 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:04 AM)missjtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:01 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  Cal never, ever stressed steals. He was far more concerned being in the right position, forcing contested shots and not over-playing passing lanes.

wow...and all this time I thought stealing the ball was a large part of defense.

It Depends. It you gamble for steals and don't come up with them then you usually give up an easy bucket. Chris averages more steals per game than Antonio Anderson did. Who would you rather have guarding the 2.

ahh, bring up the best defensive 2 guard the school has ever had to make the point that CC doesn't defend.

Not a valid point IMO.

This current crop of "fans" would waylay Anderson because Missouri torched him.

(but but mimi many of those guys made Elite Eight and the title game...)

Just pointing out the quick hook many have.

People love Crawford because he is not Joe...and people love to mock Joe for having a king of Memphis tattoo and then daring not to be the best player in the country so they adopt Chris. Now when it is clear Joe is the most important or one of the most important players on the team they over bash Crawford for his clear shooting mega slump.

Enjoy Oral Roberts. Kick some ass kids.

(12-21-2012 09:54 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

Ok. My bad. Chris is great.

Typical.

No one said was the man, we just know he isn't the poor defender you were painting him as.

(12-21-2012 09:54 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

Ok. My bad. Chris is great.

Tons of reasons to bag on Chris. His defense isn't one though. Just scroll down to the next reason on your list and I'm sure I'll agree with you.

(12-21-2012 09:56 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:54 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:52 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:34 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  It's not a misdirection. Steals mean nothing if you give up 3 easy buckets in order to get 1 steal. Peyton Siva carved Chris up. If we have another decent guard on the schedule, they'll beat him too. He just isn't a good on ball defender.

Can't hold Siva out as an example of Chris' bad D. Siva is one of a kind, and he gave it to all 3 of our guards. Chris was actually on him the least and did the best job with him when he drew the assignment.

Ok. My bad. Chris is great.

Tons of reasons to bag on Chris. His defense isn't one though. Just scroll down to the next reason on your list and I'm sure I'll agree with you.

Thats what I've been saying.

His defense is the least of his issues right now.

(12-21-2012 09:56 AM)Mimi Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:15 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:12 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:04 AM)missjtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:01 AM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  Cal never, ever stressed steals. He was far more concerned being in the right position, forcing contested shots and not over-playing passing lanes.

wow...and all this time I thought stealing the ball was a large part of defense.

It Depends. It you gamble for steals and don't come up with them then you usually give up an easy bucket. Chris averages more steals per game than Antonio Anderson did. Who would you rather have guarding the 2.

ahh, bring up the best defensive 2 guard the school has ever had to make the point that CC doesn't defend.

Not a valid point IMO.

This current crop of "fans" would waylay Anderson because Missouri torched him.

(but but mimi many of those guys made Elite Eight and the title game...)

Just pointing out the quick hook many have.

People love Crawford because he is not Joe...and people love to mock Joe for having a king of Memphis tattoo and then daring not to be the best player in the country so they adopt Chris. Now when it is clear Joe is the most important or one of the most important players on the team they over bash Crawford for his clear shooting mega slump.

Enjoy Oral Roberts. Kick some ass kids.

Joe played like a man last night. Single-handedly kept us the game from getting away from us at some points. Tarik as well, although he needs to convert from the FT line.

As said before, steals aren't necessarily a great indicator of defense. You go for a steal and miss, you leave your man unguarded for an easier basket.

Cal's KY team last year was in the bottom quarter of steals per game, but was most definitely one of the best defensive teams in the country.

(12-21-2012 10:01 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  As said before, steals aren't necessarily a great indicator of defense. You go for a steal and miss, you leave your man unguarded for an easier basket.

Cal's KY team last year was in the bottom quarter of steals per game, but was most definitely one of the best defensive teams in the country.

I don't really see Chris doing a lot of this though. Geron is the worst about it (reaching), and he's clocking the most steals on the team.

(12-21-2012 10:01 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You go for a steal and miss, you leave your man unguarded for an easier basket.

If Chris was doing that a lot it would be a valid point.

But he's not so it isn't IMO.

I just don't see him giving up scores constantly because he gambles too much.

He wouldn't even get PT right now if that was the case. Particularly with his terrible shooting.

(12-21-2012 10:03 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 10:01 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  You go for a steal and miss, you leave your man unguarded for an easier basket.

If Chris was doing that a lot it would be a valid point.

But he's not so it isn't IMO.

I just don't see him giving up scores constantly because he gambles too much.

He wouldn't even get PT right now if that was the case. Particularly with his terrible shooting.

Sure he would. Coach has his favorites. Again, bigger point is that steals isn't necessarily a great indicator of defense. Same for blocks.

As you noted, Crawford has played over 170 consecutive minutes of basketball now and not gotten to the line. (I am not counting the 2 dt he took vs. NI with 13 seconds to go since the had to foul. He didn't DRAW the fpul).

Hell, even taking the entire season into consideration, he is averaging 1.09 free throw ATTEMPTS per 40 minutes.

Staggering.