(11-11-2019 09:51 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(11-11-2019 07:30 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Let’s take a look at independent football in 2019:

Umass, 1-9 - only win over winless Akron, lost to fcs southern Illinois. Been getting destroyed in almost all games.

New Mexico State, 0-9 - closest they have come to winning is a 3 point loss to 2-7 New Mexico and a 7 point loss to liberty

Liberty, 6-4 - sounds good. But a closer look shows two of those wins were over mediocre fcs teams, one was over umass (see above), another was over New Mexico State (see above) and another was over New Mexico (see above). Last win was over 5-4 Buffalo

Army, 4-6 - wins over Morgan st, rice, utsa and umass. They’ve had some good years recently, but over time, it’s harder to win at army being an independent than navy is finding it being in the aac.

BYU and Norte dame are different animals, but certainly BYU is not having as much success on the field as an independent as they did in the mountain west.

Finally,

Soon to be independent:

UConn, 2-8 - wins over fcs Wagner and umass (see above). It will get worse before it gets better at UConn in the coming years.

Why would we even entertain the possibility of going independent? Thankfully, our admin has said this is not happening under any circumstances. Being independent is a death bomb to your program.

And yes, I know the response will be, these are all non football schools/areas, it will be different at jmu, etc etc. no it won’t. Independent football outside notre dame is not a smart choice.

why even engage the irrational.

odu had 16k witness an epic collapse and their 9th loss of the year. butts in seats, probably 6k. had they stayed in the caa, they would be competing for National championships and selling out their stadium. JMU v. odu would be an annual rivalry game

Really, Nostradamus? How do you know these things? Unlike you, I don't KNOW where ODU would be today if still in the CAA, but I suspect they would be no better off than they they have proven to be, and probably much worse (with fewer schollies). They caught lightning in a bottle with Heineken.

(11-13-2019 07:06 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Tuesday night MACtion !

this could be us playing on the road if we joined the MAC.

I own investment property half a mile from that stadium. UA is struggling in many ways. A very good tech-centered school that is desperately trying to get its enrollment back to 25,000. It has dropped to 19,000 over the past several years. Football is the least of their concerns at this point. Other MAC schools across the Rust Belt would love to be better in football and fill their stands also, but they have more immediate priorities to tend to.

(11-13-2019 08:21 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-13-2019 07:06 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Tuesday night MACtion !

this could be us playing on the road if we joined the MAC.

I own investment property half a mile from that stadium. UA is struggling in many ways. A very good tech-centered school that is desperately trying to get its enrollment back to 25,000. It has dropped to 19,000 over the past several years. Football is the least of their concerns at this point. Other MAC schools across the Rust Belt would love to be better in football and fill their stands also, but they have more immediate priorities to tend to.

Hope you don't have to collect the rent in person! Between the poverty and crime rates there, it does not paint a pretty picture.

Don't know when that picture was taken, but it is not a great look. Plenty of MAC schools are struggling with attendance, especially at the MAC-tion games. A cold weekday night game against a team that might be winless? Even the most die hard fan would be weighing the pros and cons of attending the game vs watching at home from the comfort (and warmth) of the couch.

(11-13-2019 10:59 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  Don't know when that picture was taken, but it is not a great look. Plenty of MAC schools are struggling with attendance, especially at the MAC-tion games. A cold weekday night game against a team that might be winless? Even the most die hard fan would be weighing the pros and cons of attending the game vs watching at home from the comfort (and warmth) of the couch.

Based on the scoreboard, this picture was taken in the 2nd quarter. The fact that it is a picture taken during the game from an FBS football program is beyond pathetic.

There are so many schools that do not deserve the FBS label. Akron is one of them. There is absolutely no punishment for schools and attendance which is supposed to happen.

Meanwhile, our attendance is killing and we're stuck in FCS. Seeing photos like Akron is so infuriating. They have no business being in FBS.

At the same time, I'm not sure I want JMU in a conference that regularly has programs with absolutely no fan support.

(11-13-2019 11:25 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(11-13-2019 10:59 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  Don't know when that picture was taken, but it is not a great look. Plenty of MAC schools are struggling with attendance, especially at the MAC-tion games. A cold weekday night game against a team that might be winless? Even the most die hard fan would be weighing the pros and cons of attending the game vs watching at home from the comfort (and warmth) of the couch.

Based on the scoreboard, this picture was taken in the 2nd quarter. The fact that it is a picture taken during the game from an FBS football program is beyond pathetic.

There are so many schools that do not deserve the FBS label. Akron is one of them. There is absolutely no punishment for schools and attendance which is supposed to happen.

Meanwhile, our attendance is killing and we're stuck in FCS. Seeing photos like Akron is so infuriating. They have no business being in FBS.

At the same time, I'm not sure I want JMU in a conference that regularly has programs with absolutely no fan support.

The whole MAC is worthless if you ask me.

(11-11-2019 07:30 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Let’s take a look at independent football in 2019:

Umass, 1-9 - only win over winless Akron, lost to fcs southern Illinois. Been getting destroyed in almost all games.

New Mexico State, 0-9 - closest they have come to winning is a 3 point loss to 2-7 New Mexico and a 7 point loss to liberty

Liberty, 6-4 - sounds good. But a closer look shows two of those wins were over mediocre fcs teams, one was over umass (see above), another was over New Mexico State (see above) and another was over New Mexico (see above). Last win was over 5-4 Buffalo

Army, 4-6 - wins over Morgan st, rice, utsa and umass. They’ve had some good years recently, but over time, it’s harder to win at army being an independent than navy is finding it being in the aac.

BYU and Norte dame are different animals, but certainly BYU is not having as much success on the field as an independent as they did in the mountain west.

Finally,

Soon to be independent:

UConn, 2-8 - wins over fcs Wagner and umass (see above). It will get worse before it gets better at UConn in the coming years.

Why would we even entertain the possibility of going independent? Thankfully, our admin has said this is not happening under any circumstances. Being independent is a death bomb to your program.

And yes, I know the response will be, these are all non football schools/areas, it will be different at jmu, etc etc. no it won’t. Independent football outside notre dame is not a smart choice.

I don't get your point. I'm not for going indy unless it means waiting another 10 years for a conference that may never form, but if we were and had to play those teams and we were good, we'd have 5 easy wins. Because they're sh!tty teams we'd be a sh!tty team? Part of the reason App is doing well is they're in a conf with some easy wins.

So many on here think JMU is one of, if not the best program in FCS. Why is it believed if we made a move our program would be in the gutter with UMass and ODU and other teams worse than our current level of play? Easier to pick on the little kids but afraid to face guys our own size?

If we moved up, ECU is the perfect example to gauge our potential. If they had made the right coaching decisions they'd be among the handful of schools on the cusp of P5. But given our academics and student experience, we have an even higher ceiling. I just don't get the fear.

(11-13-2019 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(11-13-2019 08:21 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-13-2019 07:06 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Tuesday night MACtion !

this could be us playing on the road if we joined the MAC.

I own investment property half a mile from that stadium. UA is struggling in many ways. A very good tech-centered school that is desperately trying to get its enrollment back to 25,000. It has dropped to 19,000 over the past several years. Football is the least of their concerns at this point. Other MAC schools across the Rust Belt would love to be better in football and fill their stands also, but they have more immediate priorities to tend to.

Hope you don't have to collect the rent in person! Between the poverty and crime rates there, it does not paint a pretty picture.

It's not so bad. I rent strictly to college students. In this case, all female ROTC students. Great tenants, rent is paid electronically.

(11-12-2019 01:31 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(11-12-2019 07:59 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(11-12-2019 06:30 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  Yep, it’s not that “tricky”. Let’s wait and see if the AAC asks UMass, New Mexico State or Liberty to join.

Let's ask the AAC if they would like Notre Dame to join. I'm not really for going independent, but those examples are two schools with terrible football and one school that no conference wants to touch(who doesn't have good football either). There isn't really any independent that compares to JMU, or even comes close to it. Pointing to UMass, New Mexico State, and Liberty is just about as meaningless as pointing to Notre Dame.

I agree with you that pointing to UMass, New Mexico State, and Liberty is as meaningless as pointing to Notre Dame. The whole idea of JMU as an independent is meaningless, and that's the real point. It will never happen.

Yeah I agree it'll never happen. I do think there are some scenarios where I'd be for it or at least not totally opposed to it, but I don't think JMU will look to go that route.

(11-13-2019 08:11 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-11-2019 09:51 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(11-11-2019 07:30 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  Let’s take a look at independent football in 2019:

Umass, 1-9 - only win over winless Akron, lost to fcs southern Illinois. Been getting destroyed in almost all games.

New Mexico State, 0-9 - closest they have come to winning is a 3 point loss to 2-7 New Mexico and a 7 point loss to liberty

Liberty, 6-4 - sounds good. But a closer look shows two of those wins were over mediocre fcs teams, one was over umass (see above), another was over New Mexico State (see above) and another was over New Mexico (see above). Last win was over 5-4 Buffalo

Army, 4-6 - wins over Morgan st, rice, utsa and umass. They’ve had some good years recently, but over time, it’s harder to win at army being an independent than navy is finding it being in the aac.

BYU and Norte dame are different animals, but certainly BYU is not having as much success on the field as an independent as they did in the mountain west.

Finally,

Soon to be independent:

UConn, 2-8 - wins over fcs Wagner and umass (see above). It will get worse before it gets better at UConn in the coming years.

Why would we even entertain the possibility of going independent? Thankfully, our admin has said this is not happening under any circumstances. Being independent is a death bomb to your program.

And yes, I know the response will be, these are all non football schools/areas, it will be different at jmu, etc etc. no it won’t. Independent football outside notre dame is not a smart choice.

why even engage the irrational.

odu had 16k witness an epic collapse and their 9th loss of the year. butts in seats, probably 6k. had they stayed in the caa, they would be competing for National championships and selling out their stadium. JMU v. odu would be an annual rivalry game

Really, Nostradamus? How do you know these things? Unlike you, I don't KNOW where ODU would be today if still in the CAA, but I suspect they would be no better off than they they have proven to be, and probably much worse (with fewer schollies). They caught lightning in a bottle with Heineken.

Even with Heineken they were never *that* special ... 2-2 in the playoffs, beating Norfolk State and Coastal Carolina. They may have beaten us during a couple times, but that doesn't mean they would have ever made the quarterfinals or beyond. It was a decent rivalry game, and would likely be so again if we were FBS.

Anyone who is advocating us joining the MAC should look at ESPN2, NIU at Toledo game. If there is 1000 fans there I call BS. Nice Maction going there. We should never even think about that conference as a option.

Just looked at Toledo's posted attendance 15610 stated. There were more band members than fans. This is how they keep themselves in an FBS criteria min attendance.

The MAC is a sad conference. It would be a downgrade from the CAA, even though it does carry that prestigious FBS label.

(11-14-2019 10:19 AM)Purple Wrote:  The MAC is a sad conference. It would be a downgrade from the CAA, even though it does carry that prestigious FBS label.

The MAC has some serious problems coming. As someone above noted, the campuses are old and unappealing (to me at least). They are having difficulty attracting students just like the cities they are in continue to lose population.

Akron and CMU’s declines are alarming. Akron had 26k students in 2014, down to 19k this year.
CMU on campus enrollment was 21k in 2010, it’s at 16k now.
WMU is down almost 7000 students from 2004.
EMU is down 20% from 2013!

Buffalo is really the only one doing well.

(11-14-2019 12:52 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(11-14-2019 10:19 AM)Purple Wrote:  The MAC is a sad conference. It would be a downgrade from the CAA, even though it does carry that prestigious FBS label.

The MAC has some serious problems coming. As someone above noted, the campuses are old and unappealing (to me at least). They are having difficulty attracting students just like the cities they are in continue to lose population.

Akron and CMU’s declines are alarming. Akron had 26k students in 2014, down to 19k this year.
CMU on campus enrollment was 21k in 2010, it’s at 16k now.
WMU is down almost 7000 students from 2004.
EMU is down 20% from 2013!

Buffalo is really the only one doing well.

I've been thinking for a while that Buffalo should be huge competition for entry into the AAC.

(11-14-2019 01:03 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(11-14-2019 12:52 PM)ah59396 Wrote:  

(11-14-2019 10:19 AM)Purple Wrote:  The MAC is a sad conference. It would be a downgrade from the CAA, even though it does carry that prestigious FBS label.

The MAC has some serious problems coming. As someone above noted, the campuses are old and unappealing (to me at least). They are having difficulty attracting students just like the cities they are in continue to lose population.

Akron and CMU’s declines are alarming. Akron had 26k students in 2014, down to 19k this year.
CMU on campus enrollment was 21k in 2010, it’s at 16k now.
WMU is down almost 7000 students from 2004.
EMU is down 20% from 2013!

Buffalo is really the only one doing well.

I've been thinking for a while that Buffalo should be huge competition for entry into the AAC.

Seems like it, but I think they have that MAC stench that is going to hurt them.

I can't think of a worse hell than Tuesday night Maction. Or Tuesday/Wednesday football in general. People just don't go to football games in the middle of the week. Most schools have a hard enough time getting people to turn out on Saturdays.

(11-15-2019 09:05 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  I can't think of a worse hell than Tuesday night Maction. Or Tuesday/Wednesday football in general. People just don't go to football games in the middle of the week. Most schools have a hard enough time getting people to turn out on Saturdays.

It definitely isn't in the fan's interest to have games on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. I blame the MAC for that.
However, absolute no-shows by the fan bases shouldn't be given a pass. It's not like these fan bases in the MAC show up big on weekends either. They have some of the worst attendance numbers of any conference in the FBS (Sun Belt included).
So when they have games on Tue/Wed nights, it only amplifies that lack of support.
There was a time when I really wanted to be a part of the MAC. But when the conference supports these games, it's hard to be too excited to join the conference. But more importantly, most of these schools have little to no fans to support them. It's hard to build a healthy rivalry with a team when that team has no fans to back them up.

Agreed by all points.

Agree.....if JMU does ever go FBS......I am good with any conference with the exception of the MAC, hell NO!!!

(11-15-2019 09:15 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(11-15-2019 09:05 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  I can't think of a worse hell than Tuesday night Maction. Or Tuesday/Wednesday football in general. People just don't go to football games in the middle of the week. Most schools have a hard enough time getting people to turn out on Saturdays.

It definitely isn't in the fan's interest to have games on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. I blame the MAC for that.
However, absolute no-shows by the fan bases shouldn't be given a pass. It's not like these fan bases in the MAC show up big on weekends either. They have some of the worst attendance numbers of any conference in the FBS (Sun Belt included).
So when they have games on Tue/Wed nights, it only amplifies that lack of support.
There was a time when I really wanted to be a part of the MAC. But when the conference supports these games, it's hard to be too excited to join the conference. But more importantly, most of these schools have little to no fans to support them. It's hard to build a healthy rivalry with a team when that team has no fans to back them up.

The MAC of 2010 was a very appealing conference. But even then there were signs of decline.

It’s a rust belt school problem more than anything. Which is why you are seeing explosive growth out of these Southern no-name schools.

Example, not that Southern Alabama is a no-name per say, but they’ve got 5k more undergrads than they did in 2005. Building a new stadium on campus. UT-Arlington, Charlotte, hell even App, growing. App hit 20k this past year which is bonkers to me. When I was there I think we had 13k.

Growing student base, growing campuses, growing alumni/donor base. Southern and western schools are mimicking US population changes, at the detriment of conferences like the MAC, IMO.