I’m re-reading again to try to make sense of it. I read it as: we don’t have enough non-subsidy revenue to deserve to be FBS. I know the “deserve to be FBS” will make you bristle, but that’s kinda how your comment reads in context.

Are some of you saying that jmu football is what it is because ticket prices and game atmosphere (both good) are provided by student fees and people in rock co have nothing better to do than go to the games, fcs or not because its the only game in town?

(07-16-2020 12:00 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 11:43 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 09:17 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 09:02 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 11:04 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  I suspect you just described 95% of both the G5 and FCS teams. G5 in general are less heavily subsidized than FCS because of higher football revenues. Guarantee games are real revenue. Most FCS teams use them, including those scrimmage level openers that visit BFS.

Are you saying anyone who isn't P5 should just fold or go D2?

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that the moniker of FBS doesn’t mean the football program is legitimate. There are some FBS schools that should drop to FCS though based on attendance and their ability to compete.

I know you weren’t trying to be deceptive, but I had no clue that this was your point based on that paragraph above.

For the record, I am never trying to be deceptive.

As far as the posts go, look at them in the context of flow of a conversation.

JMU looks and acts like an FBS school even though student fees provide significant funding. Some FBS schools have little to almost no interest in their football programs. Game days are nothing what we experience on campus at JMU.

Interest in football at JMU wasn’t always what it is now. It has grown exponentially over the last 15 years. I feel some FBS schools are looking for this type of growth and are taking the build it and they will come approach. The problem is “they” are not coming.

I understand the point now, but even looking back now with that understanding, it’s not that apparent to me. That “deceptive” comment wasn’t a dig, just felt like clarification helped since I’m constantly getting blowback for unintended perceived insinuations on here. (A lot of people here must deal with constant passive aggressive conversations. That’s how it seems at least.)

So back on topic. If we were to jump to FBS now, not in a make-believe conference, but one of the three that seems possible today, would we be like the other G5’s? I’m struggling to understand the purpose of the comparison. Is it to say that FCS is good for us because we have fans & can subsidize more to have a larger budget?

I am not in the camp of one or the other being good for us. I am with Longhorn on this subject i.e. I am going to enjoy JMU football either way. Both divisions have their pros and cons. For me, the consideration is what conference opportunities are available and financially make the most sense. I am a commercial banker so fiscal responsibility is big to me. An entrepreneur would have a different viewpoint.

If TV and other revenues are not available to defer travel costs, then JMU needs to consider geography. The marketing major in me thinks rivalries create fan interest which in turn creates revenue. This again points to geography but also a history of playing said opponent.

Socioeconomics can impact rivalries. In my time, there were rich peoples schools, middle class schools and urban schools. Everyone disliked the rich people schools and it played out in sports. All schools in Virginia liked beating UVA and UR because those schools are where the kids whose parents had money often went to college. The students there often had an air about them. Many there viewed themselves as intellectually superior. They embraced and sometimes flaunted their status.

VT was more of a middle class school during my college years. In my father’s time, VT was a working man’s college as many servicemen attended there on the GI BILL post WWII and the Korean Conflict. You can understand how VT vs UVA became a bitter rivalry. To a lesser extent the same held true for JMU vs UR.

ODU vs VCU was a good rivalry as it pitted two urban Virginia schools against each other.

I feel like socioeconomics don’t play as much of a part in rivalries these days. It takes money to attend any four year school today. The community college system, online universities and specialty schools like ECPI seems to be the place where the “working man” (and woman) go to school. These students often move into the working world upon graduation.

Without the institutional dislike created by different socioeconomics, all we are left with is geography and a history of competition against one another to create rivalries. These two are the drivers of fan interest which then drives revenue. Tying all this back to your question. I am all for FBS if we are in a P5 conference or with ODU, APP and Marshall. The CAA is great should we remain FCS.

(07-16-2020 07:15 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 12:00 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 11:43 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 09:17 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 09:02 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  No, I am not saying that. I am saying that the moniker of FBS doesn’t mean the football program is legitimate. There are some FBS schools that should drop to FCS though based on attendance and their ability to compete.

I know you weren’t trying to be deceptive, but I had no clue that this was your point based on that paragraph above.

For the record, I am never trying to be deceptive.

As far as the posts go, look at them in the context of flow of a conversation.

JMU looks and acts like an FBS school even though student fees provide significant funding. Some FBS schools have little to almost no interest in their football programs. Game days are nothing what we experience on campus at JMU.

Interest in football at JMU wasn’t always what it is now. It has grown exponentially over the last 15 years. I feel some FBS schools are looking for this type of growth and are taking the build it and they will come approach. The problem is “they” are not coming.

I understand the point now, but even looking back now with that understanding, it’s not that apparent to me. That “deceptive” comment wasn’t a dig, just felt like clarification helped since I’m constantly getting blowback for unintended perceived insinuations on here. (A lot of people here must deal with constant passive aggressive conversations. That’s how it seems at least.)

So back on topic. If we were to jump to FBS now, not in a make-believe conference, but one of the three that seems possible today, would we be like the other G5’s? I’m struggling to understand the purpose of the comparison. Is it to say that FCS is good for us because we have fans & can subsidize more to have a larger budget?

I am not in the camp of one or the other being good for us. I am with Longhorn on this subject i.e. I am going to enjoy JMU football either way. Both divisions have their pros and cons. For me, the consideration is what conference opportunities are available and financially make the most sense. I am a commercial banker so fiscal responsibility is big to me. An entrepreneur would have a different viewpoint.

If TV and other revenues are not available to defer travel costs, then JMU needs to consider geography. The marketing major in me thinks rivalries create fan interest which in turn creates revenue. This again points to geography but also a history of playing said opponent.

Socioeconomics can impact rivalries. In my time, there were rich peoples schools, middle class schools and urban schools. Everyone disliked the rich people schools and it played out in sports. All schools in Virginia liked beating UVA and UR because those schools are where the kids whose parents had money often went to college. The students there often had an air about them. Many there viewed themselves as intellectually superior. They embraced and sometimes flaunted their status.

VT was more of a middle class school during my college years. In my father’s time, VT was a working man’s college as many servicemen attended there on the GI BILL post WWII and the Korean Conflict. You can understand how VT vs UVA became a bitter rivalry. To a lesser extent the same held true for JMU vs UR.

ODU vs VCU was a good rivalry as it pitted two urban Virginia schools against each other.

I feel like socioeconomics don’t play as much of a part in rivalries these days. It takes money to attend any four year school today. The community college system, online universities and specialty schools like ECPI seems to be the place where the “working man” (and woman) go to school. These students often move into the working world upon graduation.

Without the institutional dislike created by different socioeconomics, all we are left with is geography and a history of competition against one another to create rivalries. These two are the drivers of fan interest which then drives revenue. Tying all this back to your question. I am all for FBS if we are in a P5 conference or with ODU, APP and Marshall. The CAA is great should we remain FCS.

I just don't see the CAA as great.

(07-16-2020 08:54 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 07:15 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-16-2020 12:00 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 11:43 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(07-15-2020 09:17 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I know you weren’t trying to be deceptive, but I had no clue that this was your point based on that paragraph above.

For the record, I am never trying to be deceptive.

As far as the posts go, look at them in the context of flow of a conversation.

JMU looks and acts like an FBS school even though student fees provide significant funding. Some FBS schools have little to almost no interest in their football programs. Game days are nothing what we experience on campus at JMU.

Interest in football at JMU wasn’t always what it is now. It has grown exponentially over the last 15 years. I feel some FBS schools are looking for this type of growth and are taking the build it and they will come approach. The problem is “they” are not coming.

I understand the point now, but even looking back now with that understanding, it’s not that apparent to me. That “deceptive” comment wasn’t a dig, just felt like clarification helped since I’m constantly getting blowback for unintended perceived insinuations on here. (A lot of people here must deal with constant passive aggressive conversations. That’s how it seems at least.)

So back on topic. If we were to jump to FBS now, not in a make-believe conference, but one of the three that seems possible today, would we be like the other G5’s? I’m struggling to understand the purpose of the comparison. Is it to say that FCS is good for us because we have fans & can subsidize more to have a larger budget?

I am not in the camp of one or the other being good for us. I am with Longhorn on this subject i.e. I am going to enjoy JMU football either way. Both divisions have their pros and cons. For me, the consideration is what conference opportunities are available and financially make the most sense. I am a commercial banker so fiscal responsibility is big to me. An entrepreneur would have a different viewpoint.

If TV and other revenues are not available to defer travel costs, then JMU needs to consider geography. The marketing major in me thinks rivalries create fan interest which in turn creates revenue. This again points to geography but also a history of playing said opponent.

Socioeconomics can impact rivalries. In my time, there were rich peoples schools, middle class schools and urban schools. Everyone disliked the rich people schools and it played out in sports. All schools in Virginia liked beating UVA and UR because those schools are where the kids whose parents had money often went to college. The students there often had an air about them. Many there viewed themselves as intellectually superior. They embraced and sometimes flaunted their status.

VT was more of a middle class school during my college years. In my father’s time, VT was a working man’s college as many servicemen attended there on the GI BILL post WWII and the Korean Conflict. You can understand how VT vs UVA became a bitter rivalry. To a lesser extent the same held true for JMU vs UR.

ODU vs VCU was a good rivalry as it pitted two urban Virginia schools against each other.

I feel like socioeconomics don’t play as much of a part in rivalries these days. It takes money to attend any four year school today. The community college system, online universities and specialty schools like ECPI seems to be the place where the “working man” (and woman) go to school. These students often move into the working world upon graduation.

Without the institutional dislike created by different socioeconomics, all we are left with is geography and a history of competition against one another to create rivalries. These two are the drivers of fan interest which then drives revenue. Tying all this back to your question. I am all for FBS if we are in a P5 conference or with ODU, APP and Marshall. The CAA is great should we remain FCS.

I just don't see the CAA as great.

Agree with you, Purple. I knew only one guy who went to Richmond and I think he made it through his first year before deciding it wasn't for him. I rarely hear people apply to JMU and RU. To think that's the best we can do as a rival, is deflating.

For many years UVA and Tech were bitter rivals without being in the same conference and I really don't think it intensified upon becoming conference mates. I see Appy as the biggest rival we've ever had. Two similar schools but pull in students from two different geographical areas. I'm not sure we can have a UVA/Tech type deal but we can have a UVA/UNC relationship.

Delaware is the closest thing we have within the CAA, but I just don't feel it. Maybe if they were a better traveling fan base, such as Appy, I could go with it, but even within the CAA we really don't play them that often. I've suggested we schedule them every season, some seasons the game might be an OOC contest other seasons it could be a conference game. That would clearly establish a dislike for one another and make that our one game we must win at all costs every season. Otherwise, the CAA is just bland.

Do you all think the CAA canceling football will push JMU to explore another conference home?

(07-17-2020 08:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Do you all think the CAA canceling football will push JMU to explore another conference home?

Nope

I no longer hate the CAA, fcs and monitoring situations, I am just over it, worn out as an avid fan and engaged alum. The same drum beat for 15 years.

I feel the care diminishing until gone if we don't see change, get some real communication about the future from the admin. If we don't, I just don't feel the same about JMU sports anymore, stay fcs, stay in the CAA forever, enjoy.

Every aspect of the university has changed for the better or bigger since I was on campus but athletics. Athletics are cemented in the 90's version of the little JMU that could take over the world at least in my mind.

I know, I know, we have to get an invite, we have to get the right invite, we have to this, we have to that...

Tired

(07-17-2020 08:49 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 08:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Do you all think the CAA canceling football will push JMU to explore another conference home?

Nope

Nope, no effect.

(07-17-2020 09:01 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I no longer hate the CAA, fcs and monitoring situations, I am just over it, worn out as an avid fan and engaged alum. The same drum beat for 15 years.

I feel the care diminishing until gone if we don't see change, get some real communication about the future from the admin. If we don't, I just don't feel the same about JMU sports anymore, stay fcs, stay in the CAA forever, enjoy.

Every aspect of the university has changed for the better or bigger since I was on campus but athletics. Athletics are cemented in the 90's version of the little JMU that could take over the world at least in my mind.

I know, I know, we have to get an invite, we have to get the right invite, we have to this, we have to that...

Tired

I share a lot of your thoughts. Tired of caring about something that does not appear to be in the near future. However, I don't agree that athletics have not improved. We've improved, but stayed in the small pound. JMU football has never had a better 4 years. (Men's basketball , that's another subject.) The last four years have been pretty good, but how sustainable is that at this level? Also, I think we've hit our ceiling in the small pound. There's always more you can do, but not that much more in the CAA.

What I miss, that we won't have at this level, is home games against Marshall, ECU, ODU, Appy State, and occasionally some p5 games. I'd like a chance to finish the year ranked in the FBS top 25, and perhaps finish a rare year ranked ahead of UVA and/or Tech in football.

(07-17-2020 09:07 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 08:49 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 08:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Do you all think the CAA canceling football will push JMU to explore another conference home?

Nope

Nope, no effect.

This is selfish I know, I'd like to see the less funded, high school stadium, small fan base CAA football schools drop football a la Hofstra and North Eastern and strain the CAA to the point that JMU's continued membership appears absurd.

Hearing Bourne claim the CAA adding Howard, Norfolk State and American University's club football team as a value add to the conference would be worth the price of admission.

(07-17-2020 09:07 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 08:49 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 08:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Do you all think the CAA canceling football will push JMU to explore another conference home?

Nope

Nope, no effect.

Exactly!!!! This will have ABSOLUTELY NO effect at all. In fact, it may even be more of a reason to keep us stuck in the FCS forever. And even remake the program into more of a typical FCS program.

JMU's stated intention to forge ahead with a season, seems like a media campaign to propagandize the fan base. Everyone keeps reporting and talking about JMU's intention to "Lone Wolf" it, and push forward with a season even though the CAA has cancelled conference play.

But in all the reporting and talk they leave out the one important little tid-bit---that JMU intends to play as long as the FCS postseason is still on.
https://twitter.com/Madia_DNRSports/stat...4656709634

They already know there is a 99.9% chance that there will be NO postseason
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...6722806784

We, as fans, are getting strung along again!!!
If there is a season, JMU could pick up some G5/FBS games and prove how much they actually belong in the FBS. But whose gonna pay for those? I'd assume all P5 will go conference only. So G5 regional games could happen.
Absent that, they could use this as a reason to say FU to the CAA and at least create a more regional conference home, even at the FCS level by getting rid of the Northeast teams.

But no, they'll probably just settle back into the CAA pack, and be happy. If there is any type of season, and especially at the FCS level, and JMU sits it out, this will be devastating to the program.
But I'm starting to think that's the plan. The football beast has gotten to big, and now is the perfect excuse to tame it.

(07-17-2020 09:01 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I no longer hate the CAA, fcs and monitoring situations, I am just over it, worn out as an avid fan and engaged alum. The same drum beat for 15 years.

I feel the care diminishing until gone if we don't see change, get some real communication about the future from the admin. If we don't, I just don't feel the same about JMU sports anymore, stay fcs, stay in the CAA forever, enjoy.

Every aspect of the university has changed for the better or bigger since I was on campus but athletics. Athletics are cemented in the 90's version of the little JMU that could take over the world at least in my mind.

I know, I know, we have to get an invite, we have to get the right invite, we have to this, we have to that...

Tired

FBS indy! If our admin has the stones for it. Big if! I think Cig does. Higher up, not so sure.

How many of you feel like continuing to support the football program enables JMU to remain in the CAA?

I feel like buying season tickets, going to games, buying gear and supporting the DC provides the admin with the opportunity to stay in the CAA.

It hurts my inner Duke but I want to stop supporting the programs to spite the admin. in an effort to force change via my dollars and feet.

(07-17-2020 09:22 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 09:01 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I no longer hate the CAA, fcs and monitoring situations, I am just over it, worn out as an avid fan and engaged alum. The same drum beat for 15 years.

I feel the care diminishing until gone if we don't see change, get some real communication about the future from the admin. If we don't, I just don't feel the same about JMU sports anymore, stay fcs, stay in the CAA forever, enjoy.

Every aspect of the university has changed for the better or bigger since I was on campus but athletics. Athletics are cemented in the 90's version of the little JMU that could take over the world at least in my mind.

I know, I know, we have to get an invite, we have to get the right invite, we have to this, we have to that...

Tired

I share a lot of your thoughts. Tired of caring about something that does not appear to be in the near future. However, I don't agree that athletics have not improved. We've improved, but stayed in the small pound. JMU football has never had a better 4 years. (Men's basketball , that's another subject.) The last four years have been pretty good, but how sustainable is that at this level? Also, I think we've hit our ceiling in the small pound. There's always more you can do, but not that much more in the CAA.

What I miss, that we won't have at this level, is home games against Marshall, ECU, ODU, Appy State, and occasionally some p5 games. I'd like a chance to finish the year ranked in the FBS top 25, and perhaps finish a rare year ranked ahead of UVA and/or Tech in football.

I agree completely! I am beyond tired of the excuse that we are waiting for the perfect opportunity.

Life is short. I favor going FBS indy now while we are waiting for the perfect opportunity, which we will be a much more appealing candidate for with however many years of FBS seasoning we will already have under our belt when that perfect opportunity presents itself.

Or, maybe we will be like Liberty and love indy so much we won't pursue any conference affiliation.

Is the CAA already cancelling football real and JMU claiming to schedule an Indy fcs season, the same JMU that can't schedule an Indy FBS schedule.

Our joking predictions may come true, Incarnate Word vs. James Madison Dukes.

(07-17-2020 10:40 AM)Purple Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 09:22 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(07-17-2020 09:01 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I no longer hate the CAA, fcs and monitoring situations, I am just over it, worn out as an avid fan and engaged alum. The same drum beat for 15 years.

I feel the care diminishing until gone if we don't see change, get some real communication about the future from the admin. If we don't, I just don't feel the same about JMU sports anymore, stay fcs, stay in the CAA forever, enjoy.

Every aspect of the university has changed for the better or bigger since I was on campus but athletics. Athletics are cemented in the 90's version of the little JMU that could take over the world at least in my mind.

I know, I know, we have to get an invite, we have to get the right invite, we have to this, we have to that...

Tired

I share a lot of your thoughts. Tired of caring about something that does not appear to be in the near future. However, I don't agree that athletics have not improved. We've improved, but stayed in the small pound. JMU football has never had a better 4 years. (Men's basketball , that's another subject.) The last four years have been pretty good, but how sustainable is that at this level? Also, I think we've hit our ceiling in the small pound. There's always more you can do, but not that much more in the CAA.

What I miss, that we won't have at this level, is home games against Marshall, ECU, ODU, Appy State, and occasionally some p5 games. I'd like a chance to finish the year ranked in the FBS top 25, and perhaps finish a rare year ranked ahead of UVA and/or Tech in football.

I agree completely! I am beyond tired of the excuse that we are waiting for the perfect opportunity.

Life is short. I favor going FBS indy now while we are waiting for the perfect opportunity, which we will be a much more appealing candidate for with however many years of FBS seasoning we will already have under our belt when that perfect opportunity presents itself.

Or, maybe we will be like Liberty and love indy so much we won't pursue any conference affiliation.

Hope you do not mind my comments on you guys going independent. (Where there is a will, hopefully there is a way for you guys.)

With UConn going independent, have been really happy with it. We now have both UConn and Army as short bus trip games. Our AD has said that we no longer like the AAC as a home and will quote some stuff. If ODU went indy as well, it would be something to have 6 teams, within a tighter footprint as the CAA.

Quote:“From a football standpoint, looking at a league like the American with UConn and Temple in there would have made some sense,” Bamford said of talk about potentially taking the Huskies spot. “Now, I don’t think it does and we’ve found that being an independent and getting a really good, competitive, balanced schedule is doable. Now having lived it for three years and scheduling for the next three or four, there’s no real impetus for us to get into a league when I think there’s going to be more independent football-playing schools in the next three-to-five years as there’s going to be conference realignment.”
...
Will we see conference realignment actually result in more independents though? That remains to be seen though it would be fascinating to see others try their hand at the route just like many schools such as Florida State and South Carolina did back in the day. Even Notre Dame, which needs no help in getting games given their prestige and television dollars available, agreed to a partial scheduling agreement with the ACC several years ago but they’ve so far been the outlier in all this from the beginning.

One thing is for certain, the more in the club, the more merrier it is for its members as they go through things alone in a changing football landscape at the FBS level.

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ive-years/

Why not a 5 fer 5 this season with UMASS?

UMASS AD thinks more teams will be independents like UMASS

JMU AD thinks this will open up regional realignment.

I think both are hopeful. I think it could for each, but probably not.

If you did go Indy (and Hazed’s idea is the right one imho - to speak with the wallet) you could have a pretty good schedule. For instance:

FCS opener (Delaware)
@ P5 (VaTech)
P5 (Maryland)
FBS (ODU)
@ FBS (App)
FBS (Charlotte)
@FBS (Marshall)
Army
@UMASS
UCONN
@Liberty
NMSU

Do you think a schedule similar to that would bring in more people over the course of the season?

And yes, Hyper, I understand it is out of the fans control. I am just asking a hypothetical question.

THAT WOULD BE THE GREATEST SCHEDULE WE MAY EVER HAVE, even if we go FBS for real

FCS opener (Delaware) - W
@ P5 (VaTech) - L
P5 (Maryland) - Toss up
FBS (ODU) - W
@ FBS (App) - Toss up (W/L)
FBS (Charlotte) - W
@FBS (Marshall) - Toss up
Army - Toss up
@UMASS - W
UCONN - W
@Liberty - W
NMSU - W

9-3 against 11 FBS schools? I truly think that's possible for JMU