(07-12-2012 01:47 PM)Pastnerized Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:40 PM)btiger Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:33 PM)Derby Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 12:48 PM)btiger Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 12:45 PM)Derby Wrote:  unfortunately, with that I think we all can agree

hypothetical question........if someone dropped penn st. from the schedule and the tigers filled the spot would you go to the game??

Tough one to answer, eh? I guess first I'd question our AD why Memphis agreed to fill the spot in the first place. But that's besides the point. In your question the assumption is made that Memphis has already decided to play, so based upon that... I'd want to show my support for the Tigers and attend, while still displeased with the decision to play them at all. Maybe with some sort of silent protest? I'd also hate to see the current PSU players punished for something they had no control over. At least that's how I feel right now.

Who knows what would happen? Is it within the realm of possibility to donate Memphis' portion of the payout to child protection charities or some variation there of? I don't know the right answer, because right now, IMO there isn't one. I'd guess I'd only attend once all my moral questions had been answered to my satisfaction.

your dancing around the subject is what most people will do. the fact of the matter is we would all go to happy valley to watch the game if the opportunity presented itself.

Do not speak for me. Not only would I not go to the game, I would lobby to have it cancelled. Same thing if it were to be in Memphis.
You that would happily go, need to avail yourselves of true introspection.

congrats on that.

What good will the NCAA intervening do to any of this? Im just curious. The people responsible will face criminal charges and then civil cases.

(07-12-2012 10:12 AM)tigernole79 Wrote:  I think that everyone that clamors for the death penalty needs to ask some serious question about their stance. What is death penalty worthy?
While I do tend to agree in this instance and the more that comes out, the more that I believe that opinion... I still have to hesitate in giving the NCAA that level of power. None of this involved an athlete, anything happening on the field or that would effect something that happened on the field. While that in no way excuses what happened, is the NCAA the correct distributor of justice in this instance.
*** note because of Mimi's post *** This does not mean it doesn't involve the football program. It totally does, and they should be totally open to criminal and civil penalties, my question is strictly on the NCAA involvement with something that doesn't involve athletes or on the field issues.

For all those that feel as strongly as statements in this thread, what about the companies that continue to sponsor Penn State football? What about the Big 10(+2)? What about schools that would schedule OOC games with Penn State? Do all of those not essentially justify what hapened?

Jesus, this is as far as I got into this thread.
It didnt involve an athlete....

It involved the football coach, 2 assistant football coaches (at the very least), the athletic administration including the athletic director. And it was all done to save the image of the FOOTBALL TEAM.
But you say the NCAA shouldnt have power over it?

If there is anything, ever, the NCAA should be able to give a death penalty to an athletics program, this is the time.

I cant understand the mentality of anyone who thinks otherwise.

Legal terms, not gut terms.

Makes a difference.

(07-12-2012 01:47 PM)Pastnerized Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:40 PM)btiger Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 01:33 PM)Derby Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 12:48 PM)btiger Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 12:45 PM)Derby Wrote:  unfortunately, with that I think we all can agree

hypothetical question........if someone dropped penn st. from the schedule and the tigers filled the spot would you go to the game??

Tough one to answer, eh? I guess first I'd question our AD why Memphis agreed to fill the spot in the first place. But that's besides the point. In your question the assumption is made that Memphis has already decided to play, so based upon that... I'd want to show my support for the Tigers and attend, while still displeased with the decision to play them at all. Maybe with some sort of silent protest? I'd also hate to see the current PSU players punished for something they had no control over. At least that's how I feel right now.

Who knows what would happen? Is it within the realm of possibility to donate Memphis' portion of the payout to child protection charities or some variation there of? I don't know the right answer, because right now, IMO there isn't one. I'd guess I'd only attend once all my moral questions had been answered to my satisfaction.

your dancing around the subject is what most people will do. the fact of the matter is we would all go to happy valley to watch the game if the opportunity presented itself.

Do not speak for me. Not only would I not go to the game, I would lobby to have it cancelled. Same thing if it were to be in Memphis.
You that would happily go, need to avail yourselves of true introspection.

Not a snowballs chance in hell would I attend a Penn St game. Whether it was there, Memphis, on the moon.

The people responsible were acting on behalf of the institution in an official capacity and covered up numerous crimes right?If someone tells you of a murder they committed and you say nothing and the authorities find out you knew,cant you get charged for being an accessory after the fact.Im just asking a question.The more I hear of this mess I feel more and more like going to take a shower.To hear how some people want to just sweep this under the rug is sickening and if you dont think Penn State should be held accountable ,just wait til your child gets raped repeatedly on the grounds of an institution and no one tells you whats going on.

here is the initial letter to Penn St from the NCAA.
It clearly states in this letter that while it is not specfically saying you cant molest children in the locker rooms, it has an ethics clause that is NOT LIMITED to what is listed and that Penn St can be hit under the ethics clause.

http://www.ncaa.com/content/ncaa-letter-penn-state

What has the Big Ten said about this? It seems as if a conference so rooted in academics and integrity with selection of schools and members that this would be cause for possible expulsion.

(07-12-2012 02:31 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Not a snowballs chance in hell would I attend a Penn St game. Whether it was there, Memphis, on the moon.

I'm sure most Penn State fans would feel otherwise. Penn State (as an entity) should take action on all those that participated in the cover-up. Metaphorically speaking... I know many Republicans who hated what a few Republicans did yet still voted Republican after Watergate.

Sorry, didn't mean to start a political conversation or hijack the thread.

(07-12-2012 02:35 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  here is the initial letter to Penn St from the NCAA.
It clearly states in this letter that while it is not specfically saying you cant molest children in the locker rooms, it has an ethics clause that is NOT LIMITED to what is listed and that Penn St can be hit under the ethics clause.

http://www.ncaa.com/content/ncaa-letter-penn-state

I can't get the letter to load but if there's an 'open ended' ethics clause in the NCAA bylaws than I wager big bucks they'll use it here. Probably the reason for raising it in the letter.

The Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act or Clery Act is a federal statute codified at 20 U.S.C. § 1092(f), with implementing regulations in the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations at 34 C.F.R. 668.46.

The Clery Act requires all colleges and universities that participate in federal financial aid programs to keep and disclose information about crime on and near their respective campuses. Compliance is monitored by the United States Department of Education, which can impose civil penalties, up to $27,500 per violation, against institutions for each infraction and can suspend institutions from participating in federal student financial aid programs.

The law is named for Jeanne Clery, a 19-year-old Lehigh University freshman who was raped and murdered in her campus residence hall in 1986. The backlash against unreported crimes on numerous campuses across the country led to the Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act. [1] The Clery Act, signed in 1990, was originally known as the Crime Awareness and Campus Security Act.

Ok, for the record since some like to think that my statement means I would in any way condone the actions...
My opinion, if anyone is found to have sexually abused an infant ages 0-7, they should be executed. Period, no exceptions.
7-12, life in prison, no parole ever under 10, VERY limited 11-12 depending on the age of the attacker. The older they are, the less chance for parole.

My opinion on the NCAA getting involved has NOTHING to do with what happened, but rather the NCAA as the enforcer of the penalty. Could the NCAA give the death penalty here, yes. Should they, I am not convinced, simply on the hesitation of the NCAA becoming too broad reaching. I hope the civil penalties are in the billions and the criminal penalties hit everyone that was involved in ANY form of cover up. I would love to see the Big 10 kick them out and Penn St struggle to find an OOC opponent. I think ESPN should boycott them on tv and every mention of them should mention the tragedy... I still don't feel fully comfortable coming down on the NCAA giving them the death penalty.

For anyone to say that my dislike of the NCAA in any way means I justify or lessen what happened, that would probably lead to blows if ya said it to my face. It just shows that you are incapable of sorting gut opinons and legal actions... in my opinon.

The U.S. Department of Education is investigating Penn State over the Penn State sex abuse scandal. Their investigation arises from the athletic department's failure to report the alleged abuse being a violation of the Act.[1

Absolutely they should. I think every entity possible should be after Penn State. The NCAA need not intervene.

the very idea that penn state would even have the desire to field a football team in light of all that has transpired and been revealed is incomprehensible to me

for at least a couple generations, the first thought that will come to mind when one mentions penn state football will be child abuse

(07-12-2012 03:06 PM)homefry20 Wrote:  Absolutely they should. I think every entity possible should be after Penn State. The NCAA need not intervene.

I don't know what the NCAA ethics clause says (I can't load anything related) but IF the NCAA has a valid way to punish Penn State in this situation they'll probably have to take it IMO. Just think of the public outcry if the NCAA "decides" to do nothing when it's shown 'something' was available to them -- especially in these cases of child rape.

(07-12-2012 02:56 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(07-12-2012 02:35 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  here is the initial letter to Penn St from the NCAA.
It clearly states in this letter that while it is not specfically saying you cant molest children in the locker rooms, it has an ethics clause that is NOT LIMITED to what is listed and that Penn St can be hit under the ethics clause.

http://www.ncaa.com/content/ncaa-letter-penn-state

I can't get the letter to load but if there's an 'open ended' ethics clause in the NCAA bylaws than I wager big bucks they'll use it here. Probably the reason for raising it in the letter.

Letter to Penn State President from the head of the NCAA:

Yep -- on unethical conduct the list of 10 is not limited to those delineated. And the sprit of this bylaw also constrains behavior that endangers youg people. Also values should manifest ... in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. In other words --- any ethical violation by a high official is potentially covered by the NCAA. That's a lot of power but the member institutons are parties to tha agreement - so be it. Pretty much tells where the NCAA plans to go with this. But it sounds as if the NCAA isn't doing this because of the child molestations per se. That is being handled elsewhere. It's the covering up afterwards which leads to the 'NCAA type unethical behavior' IMO ... at least that's what I read.

So is Bobby Bowden now the all time wins leader?

(07-12-2012 05:08 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Yep -- on unethical conduct the list of 10 is not limited to those delineated. And the sprit of this bylaw also constrains behavior that endangers youg people. Also values should manifest ... in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. In other words --- any ethical violation by a high official is potentially covered by the NCAA. That's a lot of power but the member institutons are parties to tha agreement - so be it. Pretty much tells where the NCAA plans to go with this. But it sounds as if the NCAA isn't doing this because of the child molestations per se. That is being handled elsewhere. It's the covering up afterwards which leads to the 'NCAA type unethical behavior' IMO ... at least that's what I read.

i agree.