(06-29-2012 01:25 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  Why don't you admit to your selfishness? You've stated on here that you want to fund your preferred social programs with someone else's money, but not yours. That sounds pretty selfish to me.

Because he is altruistic, at least in his mind. He thinks it is his job to make sure everybody ELSE pays their fair share. Useful idiots like him believe that they will be one of the favored ones in charge of the misery party when they are successful in destroying this country.

(06-29-2012 01:18 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yes I'll admit that. I don't see why it's so controversial considering we've been doing it for most of the last century (and some pockets in the 19th century).

Why don't you cons admit your selfishness, contempt for poor people and cruelty in wanting to deny them food, shelter and adequate health care?

Selfishness? As in keeping what I've earned? How many homeless people do you allow to stay with you in your house, eat your food, spend your money? it had better be a lot otherwise you're selfish.

And who is denying anyone food, shelter and healthcare? Jesus Christ, illegals get that stuff and they manage to find jobs even though they're not supposed to. Yet the welfare queens of this country want handouts - but that's ok with you because the handout is most likely coming from someone other than you.


Pick answer:

Do I have a right to keep what's mine? YES_____ NO______

Does somebody else have a right to what's mine? YES_____ NO_____

This should be interesting.

(06-29-2012 02:24 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Pick answer:

Do I have a right to keep what's mine? YES_____ NO______

Does somebody else have a right to what's mine? YES_____ NO_____

I can hear Rob now. "Define 'mine.'"

(06-29-2012 02:33 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-29-2012 02:24 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Pick answer:

Do I have a right to keep what's mine? YES_____ NO______

Does somebody else have a right to what's mine? YES_____ NO_____

I can hear Rob now. "Define 'mine.'"

Goes right along with what the definition of what "is" is.

(06-29-2012 02:33 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-29-2012 02:24 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Pick answer:

Do I have a right to keep what's mine? YES_____ NO______

Does somebody else have a right to what's mine? YES_____ NO_____

I can hear Rob now. "Define 'mine.'"

Well played.

Free markets "redistribute income".....right? Robert simply asked for a definition/clarification and nobody can provide one?!

(06-29-2012 06:37 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  Free markets "redistribute income".....right? Robert simply asked for a definition/clarification and nobody can provide one?!

No, moron, in a free market someone gets something they want from something the producer produced, at the price set by the free market. Redistribution of wealth is taxing the sh*t out of me, and taking that money and giving it in any way possible, to someone that didn't earn it. "I" fuken earned it. Why do the politicians do it? For power. This fuken nation was NEVER created so that one person could take the earnings of another. You fuken idiots want a revolution? We're not that far off. You Progs better start learning about firearms. I have about 34 years experience on you. Get to it.

These ******* will run like the little ******* they are

You know, for me to have to define that for these Progs is scary as F*CK! They didn't teach basic civics at any of you idiots' schools? I won't ask about common sense, the loss of that is apparent.

(06-29-2012 08:24 PM)maximus Wrote:  These ******* will run like the little ******* they are

Get it over with. We need to separate. You cannot compromise with a thief.

I am a liberal. My goal is not to "redistribute income". My goal is to move towards equality, fairness, and cooperation. It seems like this thread makes me feel relatively alone in my goals. This means an economy with freedoms and reasonable government oversight, a personal life free of government intrusion, and cooperation in lawmaking - and that's just for starters. Any takers? Any?

(06-29-2012 09:25 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  I am a liberal. My goal is not to "redistribute income". My goal is to move towards equality, fairness, and cooperation. It seems like this thread makes me feel relatively alone in my goals. This means an economy with freedoms and reasonable government oversight, a personal life free of government intrusion, and cooperation in lawmaking - and that's just for starters. Any takers? Any?

I fear you are the black sheep in the family my friend.

(06-29-2012 09:25 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  equality, fairness, and cooperation

It's pretty hard to oppose equality, fairness, and cooperation. But those words have different meanings to the left and the right.

To conservatives and libertarians, equality means equality of opportunity; to the left it often means equality of outcomes. And whether you claim to favor redistribution of income or not, you're always going to have to redistribute a lot of income to get equality of outcomes.

Same with fairness. It's not unfair every time someone does better than someone else. It wasn't unfair that the Heat beat the Thunder. They were the better team. Any result other than their winning would have been unfair.

As for cooperation, it takes two to cooperate. And right now, on the national scene, at least, neither party is cooperating. Neither has made a serious effort to cooperate for many years, going back to the nineties if not before.

So, those are great things to be for. But be sure to define your terms correctly before proceeding.

(06-29-2012 06:37 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  Free markets "redistribute income".....right?

Nope. Money is earned, not redistributed, in free markets. That means you pay me when I provide something of value to you.

Governments cannot create value. All they can do is redistribute value created by others, and give it to those who did not create it. We can debate for quite a long time what is the appropriate level of that.

Earnings are a distribution of cash. I work for my employer, she distributes money to me. I then take it to Walmart to buy the things I need to survive -- my income has just been redistributed to Walmart. Political rhetoric (from both sides) tries to load up basic language all the time to win the argument. I call BS on "redistribution of income".

(06-29-2012 10:50 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  Earnings are a distribution of cash. I work for my employer, she distributes money to me. I then take it to Walmart to buy the things I need to survive -- my income has just been redistributed to Walmart. Political rhetoric (from both sides) tries to load up basic language all the time to win the argument. I call BS on "redistribution of income".

(06-29-2012 10:50 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  Earnings are a distribution of cash. I work for my employer, she distributes money to me. I then take it to Walmart to buy the things I need to survive -- my income has just been redistributed to Walmart. Political rhetoric (from both sides) tries to load up basic language all the time to win the argument. I call BS on "redistribution of income".

I've now heard everything. I can die now.

(06-29-2012 10:50 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  Earnings are a distribution of cash. I work for my employer, she distributes money to me. I then take it to Walmart to buy the things I need to survive -- my income has just been redistributed to Walmart. Political rhetoric (from both sides) tries to load up basic language all the time to win the argument. I call BS on "redistribution of income".

No. Earnings are compensation for the fruits of ones labor. What happens to that compensation is entirely up to the one that earned it. The key is CHOICE. I have the choice to do what ever I wish with this compensation. When it comes to what is stolen from me by the government...it is out of my control. Governmental functionaries do WTF they want with the loot they steal.

I think we all know what redistribution means. Both sides are equally guilty of the practice of confiscating the fruits of peoples labors and redirecting it to the boondoggle of their choice. The left chooses to give it to those it deems less fortunate in society and the right chooses to give it to big business. I don't discriminate in regard to the thieves gang colors.

(06-29-2012 09:25 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  This means an economy with freedoms and reasonable government oversight, a personal life free of government intrusion, and cooperation in lawmaking - and that's just for starters. Any takers? Any?

mtsu.. if that's your stance, you are NOT a fiscal liberal/progressive.

You may label yourself as one, but you are not by the current definition of the word, a liberal.

you wrote "equality, fairness, and cooperation." You might want to work on checking to see what your definition of those three words before you just take on a "label".

because if you're a liberal as you state, then your definition of "Fair" is a hell of a lot different than mine would be.