If southern states don't know about making wealth, why is the entire nation moving south?

RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:

Rebel Wrote:

RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:Sounds good, we'll just rebuild the damaged Democratic areas and let the damaged GOP areas rot.

Care to show me the damaged GOP areas? I live in a conservative area and we're trying our best to keep you f'n Dems out.

Take a look at the electoral map. It's not surprising that the least educated, most obese, lowest median income, anti-intellectual, and anti-union also that most of these states are in the South and very Republican.

Please stop talking, you're giving liberals (specifically me) a bad reputation and all you're doing is giving them fodder to spew back generalizations.

RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:You actually think Bush has done a good job with all of the hurricane recovery? What a joke. The hilarious part is that Southerners worship Bush.

Do you even know what Popular Science the magazine is? If you do, yahoo search or Google search The Myth's of Katrina. Read it. Educate your sorry self and then return to some factual commentary.

What a POS !

My aunt volunteered for the Red Cross during Katrina. She said the activities during the cleanup were so disorganized and corrupt that more could have been done if the people adminstrating things had never showed. Food was left in the sun to rot, or misdirected. People were constantly given conflicting orders. But BU$H did his best. After all, it was his people administering this mess...

Reb, your wrong so often you'd think you would at least be able to admit it. Here's an interesting read that shows the hypocrisy of the Republican Senators:

In their last obstruction, "Dr. No" Mitch McConnell's Senate Republicans blocked a bridge loan for the auto companies, unwilling even to sustain them long enough for a new administration to sculpt a responsible response to their crisis.

What was the sticking point? It wasn't getting rid of the CEOs that drove the companies into the ditch. It wasn't forcing the creditors to cut their loans in exchange for stock, giving them a stake in the future. It wasn't accepting an auto czar to enforce the agreement and drive a transition to fuel efficient cars. That was agreed to. No, led by benighted Tennessee Senator Bob Corker -- known previously solely for his "call me" race bait campaign ad that helped him win election -- Republicans wanted to break the union, and punish the workers.

They insisted that the UAW agree to cutting workers wages and benefits immediately to match the average hourly compensation paid by non-union foreign auto companies based in the South. This would entail cuts in pay by about 50% within the next months. For Republicans, the problem wasn't the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. It wasn't wrong-headed management that was skewered when soaring gas prices wiped out their SUV cash cows. It wasn't the Wall Street dominated trade policies that sacrificed US manufacturing behind a high dollar that made it profitable to move plants and production abroad and aided foreign competitors. It wasn't the burdens of health care costs that make US manufacturers less competitive.

No, for the Republican Senators, the bailout was a chance for a little class warfare. Why should an autoworker make $50-60,000 a year, plus health care? The workers should accept half that and be happy. Autoworkers have agreed to wage givebacks and benefit cuts over the last years. They pledged even deeper cuts in relation to the agreement. But their sacrifices weren't great enough nor the cuts fast enough for Corker and the Republicans.

Now imagine telling a family that lives on $50-60,000 a year that they will make one-half that in six months. They've got mortgages, kids in college or the costs of children, and credit card debts just like the rest of us. Outside of the Wall Street bankers whom the administration has succored without asking them to slash their wages in half, how many Americans could survive a cut of half their paycheck in a few months, without going bankrupt? How many Senators who pay themselves six figure incomes with lavish pensions and health care could manage an immediate 50% reduction in their salaries? (Most of them, come to think of it, since the Senate is a millionaires' club).

Forget about the deepening recession. The Senate Republican position was essentially that the price of bailing out GM and Chrysler was to insure that the union was broken and the workers went bankrupt.

It was, of all people, Vice President Dick Cheney who reportedly warned the Republican caucus that failure to pass the bill would lead to an even worse economic downturn, that it would be "Herbert Hoover time" if the bill didn't pass. And after the Republicans torpedoed the bill, the Asian and European stock markets plummeted, with Wall Street about to follow.

There are defining moments in politics. Here Republicans defined themselves. They are not free market conservatives, for they were willing to do the bailout. They don't object to nationalizing the banks or micromanaging the auto industry on the fly. They are class warriors, willing to risk a worse global economic calamity in order to break a union, to force workers into bankruptcy. Herbert Hoover time. Let's not forget this last ignoble obstruction, committed just as the Senators went home for the holidays.

Robert L. Borosage

Rebel Wrote:

RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:

Rebel Wrote:The conservatives didn't, jackleg. The Dems in NO did. Go ahead, piss them off. I really could care less. Conservative MS gulf coast and 'Bama gulf coast were ignored.

Then they should be continued to be ignored and federal money should go to other places.

Hey, no problem. And while we're at it, conservative southerners can start withholding their tax dollars from the bloated federal government. You game? I sure the hell am.

Why are you bitching about tax dollars? Every state that went with Repubs in the last election got MORE than $1 of tax money back from the government(except Texass) for every dollar sent in while most blue states got LESS than $1 for every dollar paid into taxes.

Tripster Wrote:

RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:Southerners don't really pay taxes compared to other states, but they ask for the most federal assistance.

No taxes, no federal government assistance.

You are not just a Simple Moron, you are the Fooking Mental Midget of all Moron's !!!!!!!

Who Breathes for you Son ????



.

Considering he is right, I have to ask you, who breathes for you?

Quote:They CAN'T hold it up, ya f'n dumb***! They don't hold the majority!

Get a f'n clue before you vent like this. It only makes people think you're stupid, which isn't hard for you, and make people pray for our future because you're a substitute teacher. ....and NO, it's does NOT require 60 votes.

Uhh yes they can with 35 votes................

I could go through this entire post and point out where you were dead wrong, but your not worth the time. For any interested observer who just wants to check the credibility of Reb when it comes to matters of being anti-union. Just reread this post from the beginning. He's been proven WRONG time and time again.

Jugnaut Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:Thanks guys. It would be nice if we could find a map on how they voted. I was driving literally around Ohio today running errands for my wife. I had to go to 7 different Kohl's stores throughout Northern Ohio. I had alot of time to think and I started a debate with myself. On one hand I ran across exactly 2 K-Marts from Findlay Oh, to Lorain, to Avon, to Medina, To Parma, to Highland Hieghts. At every Kohl's there were Home Depots, Panerra Breads. It was almost a cookie cutter approach to just about every shopping place. Now hear me out. What happened to all the K-Marts????? 20 years ago you had K-Marts and the malls. I remember going X-mas shopping and you hit the malls and K-Mart. We didn't have a Kohl's. We didn't have the plethora of choices. Nobody is bailing out K-Mart workers. So I guess for the first time today I came to that realization. The strongest survive.............................. These choices are alot better than we had before..............



Now on the other HAND............. These non-union states have no idea what it is to create wealth. This is not a put down. I'm not trying to look down. I just want you anti union folks to try to see the other side. What the auto industry did was create a gigantic middle class for the Mid-West. Giving the flavor of the decade car company tax breaks is not creating anything. Take your Hyundai Kia yugo whatever....... Your not creating anything that will last beyond your generation. Please do me a favor and visit Dearborne Michigan and go to the Henry Ford museum. here you have the GREAT GREAT minds of the early 20th century. Edison, Ford..... these great industrial pioneers. It's amazing to me to this day they all grew up about a 100 miles from each other. These men grew EMPIRES that sustained regions and now with the economy the way it is the NATION has fallen on some hard times. I know who I blame that on but that's not the topic here. They need a little help. When you put up a measly 15 billion dollars to what we have maliciously and foolishly spent these last few years. It makes someone from my perspective's blood boil. Here's a newsflash for Paul. DEMOCRATS don't ike bailing out Detroit either, but we understand it. I would much rather help out the American worker than WAll Street. We bailed out AIG to the tune of 150 billion and the executives took a 500,000 dollar weekend retreat. Do you get fired up about that????? Where was Corker and Vitter then. My point is 35 predominantly southern Republican senators fcked the working man. IMHO. I know what kind of guy my father was. I know how much union's met to my grandfather. It's just a sad day.....and Republican Senator's kind of pissed on my father's grave. That's how I feel when it comes to the Big 3. There America and Apple Pie man.

The union-states don't get it. Southern states are now growing their middle classes by increasing the number of manufacturing jobs. Tennessee is really prospering now. The jobs are just moving from the north to the south. I support the right to work. You shouldn't have to be a member of a union to work. Decide for yourself. If workers want to strike then go ahead, but don't treat someone like a "scab" because they want to work. Those 35 senators just helped thousands of workers in their states. If the Big 3 die, more foreign plants will come here. At least the foreign companies are building plants in America unlike GM who has built plants in Canada and Mexico.

The Big 3's problem is that they built cars that americans didn't want, that weren't quality vehicles. Bailing out companies is un-american. if you can't do it as well, you should go out of business. I will always buy foreign brands over "american" brands because they are better made and they're built here! I see the impact they have on communities near me. Maybe the UAW members should quit and move to south.

Sounds like you have not heard. THe new Union workers at the big 3 are making about $14/hour(plus benefits). How much more do you want them to give up? Do you think they should be making Wal-Mart wages($7-$8/hour? How many houses aor cars or anything do you think they will buy? You repubs always claim superiority in "family values" but how can someone be home for their kids if they have to work 2 or three jobs just to pay the bills?

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I honestly LOVE how you guys Never Want Bush to Micro-Manage Anything you DON'T Agree With ... but when it comes to Cutting Him to Shreds Over Katrina, you are happy as little Mice to stab and stab the Man for not moving to New Orleans or the Mississippi Gulf Coast and Set Up a Southern White House.

See, that is why most of your Arguments Fail the Test - - they are all over the place and are based on Feeling rather than Doing !!!!

Feelings gets you Shyte, You Follow ?????

Bush has Offices, he oversees, who Run Shows like Katrina and the Office Failed.

It was too big of a Project and the Scope and Size of the Devastation is Akin to BOTH Hiroshima AND Nagasaki, TIMES 1000, after Atomic Weapons were used on them.

FEMA is supposed to be the Most Powerful Group in Government, yet was a Puking Joke in the Face of a Natural Disaster ????

And like I said, the Place is Still Almost as torn up as it was just weeks after Katrina - - but FEMA can take over the White House in Emergencies and Suspend Congress and run a Dictatorship over us - - I DON'T THINK SO !!!!!!!! Not after what I saw FEMA DO and NOT DO .....

Northern Insurance Companies went to town ripping people off on their Houses and Where Were all of you Lib's then ????

There are some very RICH, Retired, Old Fat, Bald Headed White Men' who took and stole everything they could from this "Natural Disaster".

You think Bush asked for this ??? You think I WANTED A CAT 5 almost called a CAT 6 Storm coming Directly Over My House ????

NO !!!!!!!!!!!

It tore us up so bad that it WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN .... at least not in my lifetime .... I am over the hill like it is, so I won't see New Orleans come back anytime soon.

And New Orleans RIPs People Off Too !!!!!! They can't Keep Honest Business because of the fuggin Corrupt Politicians and Hustlers.

It is a crying shame !!!!!!! People Lost Everything !!!!!

How many of you have watched "HBO's - The Wire" .... you Know "Bunk", the black guy that is McNulty's Partner in first couple of seasons .... his Real Name is Wendell Pierce and he lives just across the Causeway Bridge in Northern Jefferson Parish and HE IS PISSED OFF AT ALL OF THESE YAHOO's - -

Wendell tried to use his Influence to get things off the ground and People would just not work with Each Other .... it is like No One but a Few Really Cared and the Few were Way Few Too Little ...

Scammin' & Jammin' .... people homeless and without any Belongings ---- many people got a better break by taking the Planes, Buses, and Trains to Texas and other States - - they have a better Quality of Life there.

New Orleans is a Shyte Hole and always has been - - I have lived here all my life and it SUCKS.

This could be a Paradise, but NO .... we have got to be Corrupt and GET OURS before the Man Sees and takes us down ....

And I am telling you this is Direct Result of the Way Southern States were Allowed to be Treated after the Civil War ..... THINK WHAT YOU WILL ..... The North Abused it's Power and Authority by letting every Scum Bag and Drifter come down here and RUN THE PLACE.

Now you want someone who is Dishonest - - then you have Dishonest Abe Lincoln - - boy did he have a Great Reconstruction Plan for the South .... Let Dirt Bag Northerners file in by the tons and Steal What ever they Wanted - -

Lincoln's Pay Back to the South for Jumping Ship on his watch ... a really Mature and Good Man, that Abe ....

I am saying it ain't right and you Yob's are talking down at us !!!!!! When it was YOU who Owned and Abused the South and we had no Right to Stand against you ???? Or it would be War Again said Abe ???

NO NO Naa-NO-Naa NO NO

Come live here and see how you like it in New Orleans, Post Katrina - - THEN you have the Right to talk about it - - until you have lived thru something like that - - Shut Up about it !!!!!!.


and THANK YOU TIGER !!!! I don't think the boy Knows he is a Sad Sad individual.

.

RobertN Wrote:Why are you bitching about tax dollars? Every state that went with Repubs in the last election got MORE than $1 of tax money back from the government(except Texass) for every dollar sent in while most blue states got LESS than $1 for every dollar paid into taxes.

I don't like southern leeches anymore than I like northern leeches. The government should get out of ALL that ****. It should get funding for defense and the regulation of interstate commerce ONLY. All that other **** should come from local sources. I give about as much of a rat's ass about some broken dam in New England as you do about something in the south. Why should I have to pay for something in your neck of the woods? I don't think you should spend one cent in my neck of the woods either.

As for bailouts? They're ALLLLLL bad.

Machiavelli Wrote:Uhh yes they can with 35 votes................

I could go through this entire post and point out where you were dead wrong, but your not worth the time. For any interested observer who just wants to check the credibility of Reb when it comes to matters of being anti-union. Just reread this post from the beginning. He's been proven WRONG time and time again.

Hey Einstein, if the Dims had ONLY voted as a majority, since the filibuster option was NEVER put into play, the **** would have passed.

They didn't, did they?

***** at the Dims, ya moron.

RobertN Wrote:Sounds like you have not heard. THe new Union workers at the big 3 are making about $14/hour(plus benefits). How much more do you want them to give up? Do you think they should be making Wal-Mart wages($7-$8/hour? How many houses aor cars or anything do you think they will buy? You repubs always claim superiority in "family values" but how can someone be home for their kids if they have to work 2 or three jobs just to pay the bills?

Sounds like YOU haven't heard. The average worker, benefits, pay, union dues, etc., costs the company 70 bucks per hour. Doesn't matter what the worker makes, THAT'S what it costs the company.

...and you're wondering why American auto manufacturers are on the brink of collapse?

Please let me know where YOU graduated so I can do my DAMNEDEST not to let my kids attend.

It's actually 69 dollars an hour while Toyota's is 48. Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the legacy costs of the Big 3. They both pay roughly 30 dollars an hour.


Now, It's standing Senate Rule 22.

The term first came into use in the United States Senate, where Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a supermajority of three-fifths of the Senate (60 Senators, if all 100 seats are filled) brings debate to a close by invoking cloture.[6]


Procedural filibuster
In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits filibusters in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses. This threat of a filibuster can therefore be as powerful as an actual filibuster. Previously, the filibustering senator(s) could delay voting only by making an endless speech. Currently, they need only indicate that they are filibustering, thereby preventing the Senate from moving on to other business until the motion is withdrawn or enough votes are gathered for cloture.

35 senators kept it from cloture.

Your dead ass wrong...................

I'm guessing you don't know what the **** cloture is.

Reb,

I swear to God I have never ever never meant someone as stubborn as you.

Machiavelli Wrote:Reb,

I swear to God I have never ever never meant someone as stubborn as you.

I'm set in my conservative ways, but I think you "meant" to say "met".

Your right Reb, it should of been met. See it's not that hard.

Rebel Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:Sounds like you have not heard. THe new Union workers at the big 3 are making about $14/hour(plus benefits). How much more do you want them to give up? Do you think they should be making Wal-Mart wages($7-$8/hour? How many houses aor cars or anything do you think they will buy? You repubs always claim superiority in "family values" but how can someone be home for their kids if they have to work 2 or three jobs just to pay the bills?

Sounds like YOU haven't heard. The average worker, benefits, pay, union dues, etc., costs the company 70 bucks per hour. Doesn't matter what the worker makes, THAT'S what it costs the company.

...and you're wondering why American auto manufacturers are on the brink of collapse?

Please let me know where YOU graduated so I can do my DAMNEDEST not to let my kids attend.

Sounds like you have been watching Faux too long. THat $70 includes the money owed currently retired workers pensions and their healthcare costs divided by the number of CURRENT employees. Not exactly a fair way to show how much the CURRENT workers actually make. It was also shown that the REAL average is about $26/hour(inc benefits) while Toyota and other carmakers were paying $25-$27/hour(inc. benefits). Pretty much what the foreign car makers are paying-and the hell hole of Alabama is MUCH cheaper to live in then the hell hole of Detroit so the workers in Detroit are actually losing out.

BTW, I am not sure I would want your kids to come to where I went to school but it might help them understand the REAL world outside of hicktown Georgia.

RobertN, Put down the koolaid and step away from the keyboard. Your drivel is mind numbing.