At Ease Wrote:

THRILL Wrote:No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, of Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at least that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE

That's one way to think about it, I guess. But I think more likely is how do the Republicans continue to assault Obama on experience when they have someone who has managed one of the least populous US states for less than 2 years as just a heartbeat away from the presidency?

My first thought was the Palin choice muddies up the "Change" mantra for Obama. When he picked Biden, it looked like just another old white guy from the east coast who has been in Washington forever. Like Obama, Palin is real change.

It has been way too long since we had a woman on the ticket. This election, for what should be a Democrat cakewalk, is now very interesting.

Barney Wrote:

Hambone10 Wrote:THEN she threw out half of the State Senate on corruption charges and got rid of pork.

If this is true, then color me impressed, and I'll retract my comment above...

From Wiki... not that it is the end-all, or supports my "half" comment... but it is fairly free from political tilt...

She was elected Governor of Alaska in 2006 after defeating incumbent governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary and former Democratic Alaskan governor Tony Knowles in the general election. She gained attention for publicizing ethical violations by state Republican Party leaders.[3]

In 2006, Palin, running on a clean-government campaign, executed an upset victory over then-Gov. Murkowski in the Republican gubernatorial primary.[5] Despite the lack of support from party leaders and being outspent by her Democratic opponent, she went on to win the general election in November 2006, defeating former Governor Tony Knowles.[5] Palin said in 2006 that education, public safety, and transportation would be three cornerstones of her administration.[12]

Highlights of Governor Palin's tenure include a successful push for an ethics bill, and also shelving pork-barrel projects supported by fellow Republicans. After federal funding for the Gravina Island Bridge project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending was lost, Palin decided against filling the over $200 million gap with state money.[13][14] "Alaska needs to be self-sufficient, she says, instead of relying heavily on 'federal dollars,' as the state does today."[15]

She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[16] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[13]

Bones, let's just agree to disagree. Sure, there are some women who were strong supporters of Hillary who were voting for her simply because she was a woman. However, I think that constituency constitutes a very, very small minority of her supporters. As I said, I am just about as anti-Obama as one can get (and, yes, I was pro-Hillary before I was anti-Obama), but there is no way, no how I am going to vote for McCain-- or anyone supporting the conservative right and the disastrously failed policies of the past 8 years...and simply not voting would be the same as giving McCain a vote. And as much disdain and distrust as I have for Obama, I believe the vast,vast majority of Hillary supporters will in the end do as I do (even if reluctantly) and vote for Obama...or, if the argument is more palatable, against McCain.

kingjames23tx Wrote:.

LETS GO RICE

i think this hurts McCain more, since his surrogates have been hitting Obama with "not ready on day one" for months now, and it's been one of his most effective attacks. Palin has been governor for less than two years, and prior to that, was mayor of a town of 8k.

but i do agree with you on the most important part of your post:
GO RICE!
[/quote]

Two differences on the inexperience. First, she is not running for the presidency. Yes, she will be a heartbeat away if elected, but she is not running for it. Second, she has executive experience as a governor and a mayor, which is more than the other three candidates have. That executive experience will be vital.

Walt, I'm not so sure that the number of women voting Hilary because she was a woman was a small %. Think back to the New Hampshire primary, when Hillary's eyes moistened (for whatever reason you think she might have done so). The NH polls over the next couple days decided swung her way, and NPR spoke to several women after the primary who were not afraid to make it known that her tears were what made them reailze "that the time was now for a woman president." Now, granted, they would probably have voted Obama otherwise, but for those who are more on the fence, this might be a head-turner.

I'm fine with disagreeing Walt... but I think you're leaving out a large subset of Hillary supporters. If you wouldn't support anyone supporting the far right or the failed policies... then you probably weren't in play for McCain anyway... at least not without having him come out SO against the right and Bush that a Buchanan or someone would have filled in the gap costing him votes, if not the nomination entirely.

Someone called them soccer moms. Okay, I'll go with that. They supported Hillary, not just because she was a woman, but because she seemed sympathetic to the daily issues of families... not the "morality" of families. Edwards appealed to some of these people. Obama does in a way, but the solutions for a black family on the south side of Chicago don't necessarily translate well to a white mom in Sugar Land. Palin is a white working Mom... and many Hillary supporters are white working women.

I don't disagree that the vast majority of Hillary's 18 million voters (not to mention the millions who don't/didn't vote in primaries) will go for Obama... but the last election was decided by far fewer than that IIRC.

Can you name a rumored Republican VP whom you WOULD have supported... would have swayed you or many Hillary voters to vote for McCain?? Especially factor into that the argument that though the right won't vote for Obama, they might make a protest vote if they view McCain as TOO liberal (one of the arguments against Liebermen)

Tiki Owl Wrote:She is undergoing investigation (which may or may not be a big thing) and if she is found to have been a supporter of Ted Stevens in the recent primaries I don't see how that is a plus.

I agree that I don't see how but a very few female Hillary supporters will find this as a viable alternative. I am surprised that the Party didn't pick Pawlenty (McCain has left the party platform writing up to others so I imagine that the VP pick wasn't just left to him) who might have helped in MN (and the midwest)which carries more electoral votes than Alaska.

She's not under investigation... she CALLED for the investigation of Stevens and has publicly told him to come clean

again, from wiki

Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[10] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[5] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[11] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.[5

She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[16] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[1

jwn Wrote:Walt, I'm not so sure that the number of women voting Hilary because she was a woman was a small %. Think back to the New Hampshire primary, when Hillary's eyes moistened (for whatever reason you think she might have done so). The NH polls over the next couple days decided swung her way, and NPR spoke to several women after the primary who were not afraid to make it known that her tears were what made them reailze "that the time was now for a woman president." Now, granted, they would probably have voted Obama otherwise, but for those who are more on the fence, this might be a head-turner.

I'd simply suggest you not take the media's perspective "hook, line and sinker". From the media's standpoint, the vast majority of Hillary's supporters-- and the only reason the primary voting was so close-- was the very large segment of female voters voting for Hillary. Yes, that was one significant voting block which went two-thirds (more or less) to Hillary. However, men still made up over 40% of those voting for Hillary. The media tends to forget about that...just as they tried to argue that Hillary's (and Bill's) actions LOST the African-American vote, when in reality-- and understandably so-- the African-American vote went 85+% to Obama for no other reason than he was also African-American. Again, perfectly understandable, and I likely would have done the same if I were African-American. However, though none of us know for sure, I would guess that no more than 5% of Hillary primary voters truly voted for her simply because she was a woman. Sure, it might have factored into the equation for the majority of women who did vote for her, but I honestly think the vast majority would have voted for her based on her positions and past experiences-- or against Obama-- had she not been a women.

Ranger Wrote:

kingjames23tx Wrote:.

LETS GO RICE

i think this hurts McCain more, since his surrogates have been hitting Obama with "not ready on day one" for months now, and it's been one of his most effective attacks. Palin has been governor for less than two years, and prior to that, was mayor of a town of 8k.

but i do agree with you on the most important part of your post:
GO RICE!

Two differences on the inexperience. First, she is not running for the presidency. Yes, she will be a heartbeat away if elected, but she is not running for it. Second, she has executive experience as a governor and a mayor, which is more than the other three candidates have. That executive experience will be vital.[/quote]


exactly ,, that allows the GOP to criticize Obama on inexpirienced he's the Presidential nominee shes just the VP. Also there is a solid argument that as far as an executive background, Palin is the most expirienced. Hell McCain can joke he'll rely on her for advice since she HAD executive expirience,,, niether obama or biden can offer that.

Also the dems cant attack her too hard it would cause resentment with women voters,, those Soccer moms who by and large are swing voters in battleground state like, Penn. Ohio arent the Sunday School moms of the South those are solid GOP votes and states. They are true "swing" voters

the election will be deceided in a few key states Penn,Ohio,Virginia, Mich. Palin will have STRONG appeal to female swing voters in those states.She also has Union ties,, ( her husband) very blue color background. Which will be a plus is those states.

Those who have said VP nominee doesnt count for much historically are right. But this is the First Republican female nominee that combination of Conservative values and Feminine Perspective will be VERY appealing to alot of women who are truly independents.

I dont think you can put TOO much stock is past elections as far as VP choice is concerned.the Dynamics are very different.
Mondale picked Ferraro but never stood a chance vs Reagan,,
and for the first time we have a minority and a women on national tickets.

What time are yall showing up at the stadium,, then we can all hug it out and agree we will cheer the OWLS on to VICTORY

she actually is under investigation for an abuse of power charge. she allegedly fired the head of the DPS for refusing to fire a state trooper who was going thru an ugly divorce with her sister.

I don't think it's anything substantive but it's def a little black eye, considering her platform of ethics and reform

Tiki Owl Wrote:Wooo Hoo a female as a VP candidate...didn't help Mondale.

Mondale's problem wasn't his choice for a running mate, it was Mondale.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html

Tomball Owl Wrote:

Tiki Owl Wrote:Wooo Hoo a female as a VP candidate...didn't help Mondale.

Mondale's problem wasn't his choice for a running mate, it was Mondale.

absolutely true

I'll give McCain points for making a gutsy choice, but it still surprises me because of the experience question that others have brought up.

Here's the way I look at it... The ONLY reason McCain has reduced Obama's previously sizeable lead in the polls to statistical insignificance is that he has successfully gotten the message across that Obama's resume is too thin to be president. "Just a state senator 4 years ago" is a statement that has been repeated many times, and it's been effective -- to the point where I think most of the message of the Democratic Convention was a defensive response to that attack.

Now he picks a VP candidate who was "Just a mayor of a small Alaska town of 9,000" two years ago? That completely undermines what he has been saying about the importance of experience ever since the Democratic primaries ended. How can he claim that Obama isn't ready to be President but Palin is? And the argument that this is just VP therefore it's not as important just doesn't hold water. The VP can become President any day.

I don't know how this is going to go. But it certainly made this race more interesting (and it's already been a remarkable one).

Edited to add: Seriously. The mayor of Wasilla two years ago?? This is nearly as shocking as Perot's pick of Stockdale for VP. Half of me thinks tomorrow McCain's going to reveal that this was just a big joke, staged to highlight Obama's inexperience. Come on. Wasilla, then Juneau, then the White House?

Come on!!

Hambone10 Wrote:She's not under investigation... she CALLED for the investigation of Stevens and has publicly told him to come clean

again, from wiki

Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[10] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[5] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[11] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine.[5

She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[16] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[1

Actually, she is under investigation in another matter entirely. (I won't bother...you'll hear about it.)

And while the "reformer" tag undoubtedly has merit (and, of course, these guys had it coming), her reforms appear to also be part of a far-right purging of the supposedly too-liberal Republicans who ran the state.

Ive been saying for almost two years I thought Obama would win.
just my guess on how the media would react,,the flaws in Hillarys background that would make it tough for her to win the nomination outright. And just a gut feeling.

Now..

I honestly give a slight edge to McCain, again the election will come down to 4-8 states, Florida,Virgina, Georgia, Penn,Ohio,Mich. are the big ones,In the south, traditional GOP territory an increase in the black vote makes it interesting but I think ultimatly the GOP still wins Georgia,Virginia.
Florida,,That will again be a key state,,tough call at this point.
Then throw Penn,Ohio,Mich in the mix,, thats where this election will be won/lost.

How does this selection play out there,, I think it will play out very well, it softens McCains image. It reinforces the maverick/ independent image McCain will play up there. And in a close election as this will be. Sometimes a voters makes their choice on the oddest of reasons. TRUST ME,, I know of what I speak.
Women might decide that Palin is reason enough.

waltgreenberg Wrote:...Sure, there are some women who were strong supporters of Hillary who were voting for her simply because she was a woman. However, I think that constituency constitutes a very, very small minority of her supporters. As I said, I am just about as anti-Obama as one can get (and, yes, I was pro-Hillary before I was anti-Obama), but there is no way, no how I am going to vote for McCain-- or anyone supporting the conservative right and the disastrously failed policies of the past 8 years...and simply not voting would be the same as giving McCain a vote. And as much disdain and distrust as I have for Obama, I believe the vast,vast majority of Hillary supporters will in the end do as I do (even if reluctantly) and vote for Obama...or, if the argument is more palatable, against McCain.

I agree. There are always people who will vote for a candidate simply on the basis of gender, race, religion, etc.

Hillary's DNC speech got the issue of transitioning her supporters to Obama exactly right. She said that the issues she campaigned on were more important than her as an individual, and McCain does not share her position on those issues. Thus, to see her positions realized, her supporters must vote for Obama. I think this is obvious to her supporters, and they will act accordingly when they get past their disappointment. I cannot believe any Hillary supporter with sense will vote for McCain out of pique and/or in hopes of letting Hillary run again in four years instead of eight; why would they chance more years of the dismal condition our country is already in? I'm tired of seeing my acquaintances laid off! I'm tired of a lot of things in the US right now.

I absolutely will not vote for McCain, mostly because I completely oppose many of his social issue positions. Palin might be a talented leader with potential to be a very effective VP--standing up to oil interests is impressive--but she shares his social issue positions, so she does not improve his candidacy at all.

I wonder what Mr. Clinton thinks of McCain's choice of Palin?

Tomball Owl Wrote:I wonder what Mr. Clinton thinks of McCain's choice of Palin?

I think I can tell you exactly what William Jefferson Clinton thinks:



Re: Palin, I do think this is a very interesting choice, and it just makes the '08 election all the more dynamic and intriguing. I'd like Obama to win, but I'm thinking this is going to be a tight race to the very end.

Tomball Owl Wrote:I wonder what Mr. Clinton thinks of McCain's choice of Palin?

probably the same that he said of Ms. Biden - that she is "fabulous" !

snicker