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OT- Palin
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THRILL Offline
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Post: #1
OT- Palin
No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, of Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at least that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2008 11:29 AM by THRILL.)
08-29-2008 11:22 AM
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Owl-88 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: OT- Palin
THRILL Wrote:No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, OF Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at loeast that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE

I think it's an interesting choice, but I don't think a lot of disaffected Hillary supporters will be thrilled with a woman who doesn't support abortion rights.
08-29-2008 11:29 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: OT- Palin
Unless they think the it increases the chances that Hillary can win in 2012.

The goal is not to get ALL Hillary supporters... but to get more than Pawlenty or Romney or whomever.
08-29-2008 11:32 AM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #4
RE: OT- Palin
She is undergoing investigation (which may or may not be a big thing) and if she is found to have been a supporter of Ted Stevens in the recent primaries I don't see how that is a plus.

I agree that I don't see how but a very few female Hillary supporters will find this as a viable alternative. I am surprised that the Party didn't pick Pawlenty (McCain has left the party platform writing up to others so I imagine that the VP pick wasn't just left to him) who might have helped in MN (and the midwest)which carries more electoral votes than Alaska.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2008 11:39 AM by Tiki Owl.)
08-29-2008 11:37 AM
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THRILL Offline
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Post: #5
RE: OT- Palin
Meh,, thats only THE issue to 11% of voters,,those were gonna vote for the Dem regardless. IT will be brought up,, I agree. I just think those werent the votes up for grabs.

Since its my business i knew a little something about Palin,,I like her policially shes a new Republican, libertarianish I think it moves the party in the right direction , at the very least.


I know its gameday, and thats the greater concern today. But Im not kidding my neighbor asked me who I thought the niminee would be, I told him I thought it would be Pawlenty but I wanted Palin.

just an interesting choice,, Im sure itll be talked to death this weekend along with the Hurricane and Caylee
08-29-2008 11:39 AM
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kingjames23tx Offline
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Post: #6
RE: OT- Palin
THRILL Wrote:No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, of Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at least that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE

i think this hurts McCain more, since his surrogates have been hitting Obama with "not ready on day one" for months now, and it's been one of his most effective attacks. Palin has been governor for less than two years, and prior to that, was mayor of a town of 8k.

but i do agree with you on the most important part of your post:
GO RICE!
08-29-2008 11:40 AM
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At Ease Offline
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Post: #7
RE: OT- Palin
THRILL Wrote:No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, of Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at least that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE

That's one way to think about it, I guess. But I think more likely is how do the Republicans continue to assault Obama on experience when they have someone who has managed one of the least populous US states for less than 2 years as just a heartbeat away from the presidency?
08-29-2008 11:42 AM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #8
RE: OT- Palin
I saw an interview with Jimmy Carter the other night. He recalled that in 1976 after the Republican convention, Reagan's supporters swore they would never vote for Gerald Ford. They came around, of course, and in the end it was a very close election.

At the 1948 convention, Truman* told farmers and labor if they didn't stand by the party, they were "the most ungrateful people in the world." The Clintons and Obama need to do the same thing with Hillary's supporters (in a politic way).

* The Republicans' favorite liberal Democrat
08-29-2008 11:43 AM
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THRILL Offline
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Post: #9
RE: OT- Palin
At Ease Wrote:
THRILL Wrote:No one will believe me except my nieghbor who I told yesterday I thought McCain should pick this hot Gov, of Alaska as his running mate.

BRILLINAT choice,
get the womens vote,the pissed off Hillary voters will LOVE this choice,, Obama cant talk too much about her relative inexpirience it opens him up for attack on his weakest front. And if the go on too much about her two years as Gov and frmr mayor,,she can just remind them of Truman WHO like her was a maverick and allows her to claim at least that Truman is a hero and she model herself after him in many ways.

I think this steals Obamas Thunder BIG TIME,


OK im done


LETS GO RICE

That's one way to think about it, I guess. But I think more likely is how do the Republicans continue to assault Obama on experience when they have someone who has managed one of the least populous US states for less than 2 years as just a heartbeat away from the presidency?


see,, thats the THING,, Obama wouldnt be a heartbeat away,, DAY 1 hes would be THE man,, she would have the time as VP to learn. His inexpirience IS an issue hers is not unless the DEMS make it,, and they cant,, just too big of a risk.

its not like the dems can whisper McCain will die week one in the white house,,

I dunno,,, just as a political professional I can imagine all sorts of angles I can play with this and many ways to deflect counter attacks
08-29-2008 11:46 AM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #10
RE: OT- Palin
JSA Wrote:I saw an interview with Jimmy Carter the other night. He recalled that in 1976 after the Republican convention, Reagan's supporters swore they would never vote for Gerald Ford. They came around, of course, and in the end it was a very close election.

At the 1948 convention, Truman* told farmers and labor if they didn't stand by the party, they were "the most ungrateful people in the world." The Clintons and Obama need to do the same thing with Hillary's supporters (in a politic way).

* The Republicans' favorite liberal Democrat

JSA, I heard Carter's quote when he said it, and I dismissed it then. He all but said the reason he won in '76 was because of the split in the Republican Party. I guess he forgot that something called WaterGate had a wee bit of an effect in turning anybody but die hard Republicans away from the voting booth that election (and many other Republicans and independents voted democratic for that reason). Even an inexperienced and non-noteworthy Southern Governor was able to win that election for the Dems (due both to the Watergate lingering tarnish and the gawd-awful economy-- with sky-high inflation), despite lacking the charisma that Clinton would bring to the table 16 years later.

As for the selection of Palin, I'm at a total loss how this is going to help McCain. Admittedly, I'm a staunch Democrat, but Palin is largely unknown to the nation...is a Governor of a small and inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) state, with negligeable electoral votes and almost assuredly going Republican regardless...and who has hardly any experience whatsoever. Sure, her social positions appeal to the conservative right wing, but it's not as if she has the appeal to the religous right as a Hucklebee or even Ramsey would have...and both of those would at least counter McCain's admitted weakness on economic issues. As for the woman angle, anyone who honestly thinks that she is going to get anything more than a miniscule fraction of the Hillary voters just doesn't understand what the Hillary voter is all about. It's not feminism, per se, but rather, Hillary's long-standing and strong public positions and advocacy of issues that appeal to women-- education, women's rights, health care, child care, etc. Palin does nothing for the women-- or men (such as myself)-- who are appalled at the current far right-wing stacked composition of the
Supreme Court, and will do anything to keep the next President from further slanting the court to a truly dangerous extreme. I personally do not like Obama. I think he's two-faced (e.g., running a very dirty campaign against the Clintons behind the scenes, but successfully conveying himself to the media as a "different type of politician" who doesn't believe in personal attacks), inexperienced, has created an image of himself void of actual validation (e.g., he works across party lines and is a uniter), and is far more a PR machine than a substantive politician. Having said all that, I'm still going to vote for him over McCain, largely because McCain and his policies scare me big time, and the once self-proclaimed maverick has changed his positions to cater to the conservative right of his party...and we don't need more of the same that we had with the current administration. Thankfully, Obama chose Biden as his running mate, and I've always been a big fan of his.

Just my two cents.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2008 12:07 PM by waltgreenberg.)
08-29-2008 12:05 PM
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S.A. Owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: OT- Palin
I don't think this is an appeal to Hillary dead-enders - I think it's more likely a gambit to put "soccer moms" back in play, while making the McCain-loathers in the GOP happy. Which means they have to make sure the conservatives know she's one of them in one way, and make sure non-ideological women knows she's one of them in another way.

I have no clue how it'll turn out. The experts keep saying VP candidates don't make much difference.
08-29-2008 12:06 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: OT- Palin
If you think (as I'm sure THRILL is) about it from a political standpoint... who is in play, as opposed to simply who is out there... this is a gutsy and good choice.

Biden said Obama wasn't ready just a few months ago... Hillary said he wasn't ready. McCain clearly is, and as an openly supportive Hillary CNBC broadcaster just said... She's raised 5 kids... one with special needs... she's ready to be President. Even so, if Obama became ready to be President in just a few months, so can Palin... especially in that SHOULD SHE BECOME President, she'd be working with John's cabinet... not having to pick one herself (though unlike Obama, at least she's had to pick a cabinet before)

If you wanted a woman on the ticket, you will vote for McCain.
If you want Hillary in office, you will vote for McCain. (Hillary supporters were chanting this months ago)
If you want pro choice candidates as your litmus test, you probably weren't voting Republican anyway.

As THRILL says... she has LOTS of ways to deflect the attacks,,, The most important thing she can say is... (IMO)

As the Committee Chair of a group voting on abortion rights, Obama couldn't even get the verbiage he preferred on the bill. As Mayor of Wasilla, she defeated a sitting Republican Governor in the pocket of Big oil, and then defeated a former Democratic Governor for the election. THEN she threw out half of the State Senate on corruption charges and got rid of pork. Years in office don't really matter if you can't get anything done, even when you chair the committee.
08-29-2008 12:07 PM
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Owl-88 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: OT- Palin
If Bush the Elder winning with Dan Qualye as a running-mate didn't demonstrate how irrelevant the VP selection is to a presidential election, nothing will. It gives the talking heads something to gnaw on until the convention starts. After that, it will become increasingly irrelevant who either VP candidate is. The VP debate ought to be fun though!
08-29-2008 12:07 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #14
RE: OT- Palin
S.A. Owl Wrote:I don't think this is an appeal to Hillary dead-enders - I think it's more likely a gambit to put "soccer moms" back in play, while making the McCain-loathers in the GOP happy. Which means they have to make sure the conservatives know she's one of them in one way, and make sure non-ideological women knows she's one of them in another way.

I have no clue how it'll turn out. The experts keep saying VP candidates don't make much difference.

Bingo.
08-29-2008 12:15 PM
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Barney Offline
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Post: #15
RE: OT- Palin
I agree - I think the Republicans feel desperate, and see McCain's image as stiff and old as a big obstacle. This woman is GOOD-LOOKING, apparently her chief attribute though. I think that if they've just put all their eggs in the one basket of trying to get the Hillary-ites, that they've made a big mistake. I think the Democrats will jump all over her unbelievable lack of experience, to be one 72 year old heartbeat away from the presidency.
08-29-2008 12:17 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #16
RE: OT- Palin
Wooo Hoo a female as a VP candidate...didn't help Mondale.
08-29-2008 12:18 PM
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Post: #17
RE: OT- Palin
waltgreenberg Wrote:As for the woman angle, anyone who honestly thinks that she is going to get anything more than a miniscule fraction of the Hillary voters just doesn't understand what the Hillary voter is all about. It's not feminism, per se, but rather, Hillary's long-standing and strong public positions and advocacy of issues that appeal to women-- education, women's rights, health care, child care, etc. Palin does nothing for the women-- or men (such as myself)-- who are appalled at the current far right-wing stacked composition of the Supreme Court, and will do anything to keep the next President from further slanting the court to a truly dangerous extreme.

The people you describe wouldn't vote for a Republican then... so it doesn't matter to them WHO he picked.

As the Husband of a strong woman... not a feminist per se... who works for some HUGE Hillary supporters... this has turned them all. Not only is is a vote for McCain, but it is a lost vote for Obama. I don't see that many of the other rumored choices take anything away from Obama... and much like baseball, gaining a vote is 1/2 game... taking a vote from your opponent is a full game.

And, for the TRUE Hillary supporters... you are ignoring the fact (and I've heard them say it) that electing Obama means that it is 2016 before she can run again... Electing McCain makes it 2012. Having McCain have a female VP only makes the comfort of having a woman in the White House more comfortable. If Obama is weak, then we will be electing a Republican in 2012... Even if McCain is strong, he will be even older... besides... none of them believe McCain will be strong.... and if he is, they'll claim that it is because he has a woman (two of them actually) in his ear. That is the argument they made about Bill when she ran.

You mentioned health care and children... Who knows more about healthcare and children than a working mother of 5 children??? One of them with special needs??? It's why she got into politics in the first place... she was tired of the paperwork and BS that a mother had to jump through to get what should be a simple right in this country.
08-29-2008 12:19 PM
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Post: #18
RE: OT- Palin
Honestly, I'm not sure how much more the McCain campaign was going to roll out the inexperience card going forward. It wasn't a particularly effective card for them or Hillary, for starters (though it did morph somewhat into hints in the celebrity line of attack). But that line had played itself out in the summer, when you want to spend time defining your opponent. The post Labor Day rush is much more tactical, and you're less likely to be able to define opponents with that broad brush. I never expected it to be central to what is pushed as the narrative these last 60+ days.

Will it stick to Palin? We'll see. The Obama campaign's first press release tried to pooh pooh her as being not much more than a small town mayor, an approach which Democrats bashed to no end when the line was used on Tim Kaine in July by Karl Rove. Rove's dig at Kaine was wholly ineffective and laughable then; Obama's campaign thinks it's a good line of attack now? I find it petty now as I did when Rove tried it.
08-29-2008 12:20 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: OT- Palin
Barney Wrote:This woman is GOOD-LOOKING, apparently her chief attribute though.

Booo.... Take another look Barney... Seriously.

You may not find her qualified to be VP or whatever... but she has MANY attributes superior to most of the men running for office.
08-29-2008 12:20 PM
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Barney Offline
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Post: #20
RE: OT- Palin
Hambone10 Wrote:THEN she threw out half of the State Senate on corruption charges and got rid of pork.

If this is true, then color me impressed, and I'll retract my comment above...
08-29-2008 12:22 PM
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