GrayBeard Wrote:

Trooper Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:And using this philosophy...

Quote:being born with AIDS

I suppose you feel we should just go ahead and kill all AIDS patients! Is that your stance, or are you just being a hypocrite?

Do you realize that South Africa is averaging a suicide per hour among people infected with AIDS?
Children as young as 6 have committed suicide because of the pain and the stigma.

We could say let's kill ALL the AIDS patients using the same logic as saying let's ban ALL abortions.

I'm beginning to think that a lot of the anti choice folks who want to sit on their high horse and preach to the unwashed masses what's good for them have no concept of what's going on out in the real world.

They've never had to deal with AIDS, they've never had to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.

They have all the solutions and can quote chapter and verse from the handbook but it appears there's no real world experience.

It sure sounds good though.

Way to Dodge.

The question remains....Do you think we should kill people because they have AIDS? Or do you only think that we should kill babies with AIDS?

Remember, I am asking you questions based on your argument for abortion!

I am against killing anyone.

I am equally against you wanting the government to create a law that will infringe on my family's, your family's or any other family's right to make decisions we believe to be right when it comes to abortion.

That's what it all boils down to.

[That would be like the government cancelling all Living Wills and saying that we we go to whatever means it takes to keep people alive regardless of their wishesQUOTE]

Not quite, the person who wrote out the living will made the choice not his mother.



[But it's not the government's business to tell this woman that she has to carry this child regardless of it's sex through a full term pregnancy.
QUOTE]

Yet the government can prosecute her for murder if she has the baby and throws it in a garbage can. Is that proper or not? If it is then what is the difference between killing it a day prior to birth or the day after?


[But, you say, I don't want the government teaching birth control to my children. That's fine, you me and Graybeard are teaching our kids right from wrong at home. There are millions out there that don't get this kind of education and care at home.
QUOTE]

I don't buy into that. My parents never sat me down and gave me birth control lessons yet I knew that I had better protect myself or I would be a parent myself.

[I'm glad you and Graybeard are against it. Please influence all the women you know not to have abortions, just don't try to have a law made that has such a great affect on lives and situations you don't know anything about.QUOTE]

It's the taking of human life. Bottom line. If the people of this nation can't at the very least regulate this then we place a low value on human life.

bearcat65 Wrote:It's the taking of human life. Bottom line. If the people of this nation can't at the very least regulate this then we place a low value on human life.

i dont believe a dim would understand that

<a href='http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40024' target='_blank'>You have to read this article!</a>

Please, read it!

<a href='http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40024' target='_blank'>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=40024</a>

ccs178 Wrote:<a href='http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40024' target='_blank'>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=40024</a>

CopyCat!

bearcat65 Wrote:Yet the government can prosecute her for murder if she has the baby and throws it in a garbage can.&nbsp; Is that proper or not?&nbsp; If it is then what is the difference between killing it a day prior to birth or the day after?&nbsp;

Then why doesn't the hospital issue a birth certificate when a woman finds out she's pregnant instead of 9 months later after the child is born?

Why doesn't the IRS let you claim the child as a dependant until it's born?

safetyeagle Wrote:i dont believe a dim would understand that

Yeah I bet if fetuses could tote a rifle ol' Dub wouldn't have any trouble turning them into targets in Iraq either.

Trooper Wrote:

bearcat65 Wrote:Yet the government can prosecute her for murder if she has the baby and throws it in a garbage can.  Is that proper or not?  If it is then what is the difference between killing it a day prior to birth or the day after? 

Then why doesn't the hospital issue a birth certificate when a woman finds out she's pregnant instead of 9 months later after the child is born?

Why doesn't the IRS let you claim the child as a dependant until it's born?

It is a BIRTH certificate not a life certificate

As for your second question......They should

Knight Time, for the first time in my life, I agree with your post. (Good points)




But do not start thinking that I will join the Bush camp. If the Rep. were honest about the abortion issue then why have they not introduced the only real and permanent (OK, semi-permanent) solution to abortion........ a Constitutional Amendment?

They own the House., Sen., and Exec. branch and yet still nothing. Out of nowhere, W introduces an atempt to prohibit gay marriage but remains silent about abortion. Reality is that the Rep. are not stupid enough to ever give us what we want because with out an abortion issue most Amercians would see that these guys are only representing the top 1 % of the population. (Throw out your visions of grandeur, the odds are very much against you of ever joining that 1 %)

We need to stop trying to steal away what abortionist consider a right, and start showing reason. In return, we will win the hearts and minds of the American people, pass an amendment prohibiting most abortions, and save millions of innocent lives.

Trooper Wrote:

safetyeagle Wrote:i dont believe a dim would understand that

Yeah I bet if fetuses could tote a rifle ol' Dub wouldn't have any trouble turning them into targets in Iraq either.

Man, that is an argument stopper!

How stupid.

Abortion turned into a stab at Iraq.

Lame.

As far as earliest stages of the pregnancy, there are legit arguments from both sides about how "lifelike" the fetus is, as the cells are collecting and merging. Thus, I'd be pro-choice in this case.

But in later stages, it's a great mystery to me how this is still a debate.

Brainwaves, beating heart, motor functions, kicking, stretching, eyelids twitching, recognizing the mother's voice... I'm at a loss as to how anyone could look at film of a fetus at this stage and still insist it's not a life, religion or no religion. Not sure how something is considered a vegetable-like blob on one side of the birth canal, and a human being immediately on the other side (Thankfully, late-term abortions are rare).

Then why doesn't the hospital issue a birth certificate when a woman finds out she's pregnant instead of 9 months later after the child is born?

Why doesn't the IRS let you claim the child as a dependant until it's born? [/quote]
You didn't answer the question Trooper. Is it proper or not? Your arguments about birth certificates and tax exemptions mean little. I do not need a birth certificate nor a tax exemption to know that my children are alive. It's amazing to me that on one hand you could have a case where someone decides to abort at 6 months or later and another case where the baby could be born and have the tax exemption and birth certificate you deem necessary to exist.

safetyeagle Wrote:<a href='http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/009/8.82.html' target='_blank'>linky</a>

Quote:ut abortion advocates aren't rallying to Kerry's view of conception, so they're not arguing church-state separation, either. In summary, they have lost ground on science, emotional appeals, constitutional law … What's left?

Insanity. Meet Amy Richards, whose "When One is Enough" article in The New York Times Magazine told of how she unregretfully aborted two of her triplets because it would mean "shopping only at Costco and buying big jars of mayonnaise." Without the abortions, she exclaimed, "I'd have to give up my life!" That life is one where she's a Planned Parenthood leader, a consultant to Gloria Steinem, and founder of the Third Wave Foundation, which funds abortions. She's also one of the brains behind Planned Parenthood T-shirts that proudly proclaim, "I had an abortion."

having to go to costco & buying bulk mayonaise is good reason to have an abortion. :rolleyes:

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>:edit: Personal Attacks are a violation of AUP! Clean it up in the future.</span></span>

Leave the CHOICE to the woman...

It shouldn't be the decision of some old man politician or moral avenging bible beater...

Vincent St George Wrote:Leave the CHOICE to the woman...

It shouldn't be the decision of some old man politician or moral avenging bible beater...

Last thing in world we need are morals. :rolleyes:

So if you guys could write the law regarding abortion in the entire United States, what would it be?

Let's hear it, be sure to put in all your "ifs", "ands" and "buts"

I don't want to hear "when a woman's life is in danger", that's too broad of a statement. An abortion could be justified in that case because being pregnant might make a woman too heavy to swim and she might drown.


Why rape? a perfectly good kid could be born out of a rape, just as easily as an accidental pregnancy. It's not the child's fault, why punish it?

Incest.......about the only sure thing regarding that would be sex between siblings or a parent and their offspring.

Try to concentrate on what you're doing.

Let's get down to brass tacks, I've heard about all the preaching and moralizing I can take. Do any of you have any ideas or thoughts other than "I'm against abortion"?

[Let's hear it, be sure to put in all your "ifs", "ands" and "buts"]

Since most laws allow for circumstances then I'm sure those would be included.

[I don't want to hear "when a woman's life is in danger", that's too broad of a statement. An abortion could be justified in that case because being pregnant might make a woman too heavy to swim and she might drown.]

I believe it would be something more along the lines where a doctor would say that the person suffers from a medical condition where child birth would pose a abnormally high risk factor. Your example illustrates the base premise democrats seem to have that no one should be responsible for their actions or should be inconvenienced due to their actions. If a woman is far enough along to where she endangers herself by swimming then perhaps she shouldn't swim.



[Why rape? a perfectly good kid could be born out of a rape, just as easily as an accidental pregnancy. It's not the child's fault, why punish it?]

Because the woman did not choose to participate in the conception.


[Let's get down to brass tacks, I've heard about all the preaching and moralizing I can take. Do any of you have any ideas or thoughts other than "I'm against abortion"?]

I'm against abortion except for extreme circumstances same as with the killing other human beings.

bearcat65 Wrote:[Let's hear it, be sure to put in all your "ifs", "ands" and "buts"]

Since most laws allow for circumstances then I'm sure those would be included.

[I don't want to hear "when a woman's life is in danger", that's too broad of a statement. An abortion could be justified in that case because being pregnant might make a woman too heavy to swim and she might drown.]

I believe it would be something more along the lines where a doctor would say that the person suffers from a medical condition where child birth would pose a abnormally high risk factor.&nbsp; Your example illustrates the base premise democrats seem to have that no one should be responsible for their actions or should be inconvenienced due to their actions.&nbsp; If a woman is far enough along to where she endangers herself by swimming then perhaps she shouldn't swim.&nbsp;



[Why rape? a perfectly good kid could be born out of a rape, just as easily as an accidental pregnancy. It's not the child's fault, why punish it?]

Because the woman did not choose to participate in the conception.


[Let's get down to brass tacks, I've heard about all the preaching and moralizing I can take. Do any of you have any ideas or thoughts other than "I'm against abortion"?]

I'm against abortion except for extreme circumstances same as with the killing other human beings.

[QUOTE]Your example illustrates the base premise democrats seem to have that no one should be responsible for their actions or should be inconvenienced due to their actions. If a woman is far

Base premise democrats seem to have...............how did we get the democrats involved here? Are you calling me a democrat?

[QUOTE]Because the woman did not choose to participate in the conception.


The folks who's contraception failed them did not choose to participate in a conception either. Is abortion about conception or the taking of a life? The child conceived in a rape has every right to live just as one that was an OOPS.

What if the girl that's alledging Kobe Bryant raped her had become pregnant from this action? Could she keep this baby if she wanted to? Forcing Bryant to pay child support. This kid could grow up to be another great basketball star. Would Bryant have any say-so?



Thanks for the reply bearcat65, apparently the rest of the folks here have no plan or ideas about what to do about abortion if a law was passed to stop it. I guess they can't think that far ahead.

Seems like all they got is "I ain't for abortion".

Abortion=murder.

Period.

Trooper Wrote:

safetyeagle Wrote:i dont believe a dim would understand that

Yeah I bet if fetuses could tote a rifle ol' Dub wouldn't have any trouble turning them into targets in Iraq either.