(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

I keep asking the very same question over and over. Still no answer.

(10-27-2026 11:39 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  Unfortunately, I see #6 as most likely right now. #4 probably least likely.


"...So, given these dismal facts, will this horrific war ever end?

There are lots of scenarios for a conclusion to the madness, but most are either unlikely or terrifying.

1) After nearly five years of frightening human costs, economic ruin, and global ostracism, Russia could agree to an armistice based on the status quo of the current battlefront. It would keep Crimea and its eastern Ukrainian acquisitions. It could thus claim victory before its disenchanted population. Ukraine would also be able to declare victory for stopping the Russian colossus from pushing farther into the country.

Ukraine would not join NATO. But during the peace, it would arm itself to the teeth. Ukraine would fortify its new eastern border to deter further Russian aggression, given that Putin’s ultimate agenda is to absorb all the former Soviet republics either by outright conquest or through puppet governments, and so to claim a status like Peter the Great’s by restoring millions of new “Russians” to the current shrinking Russian Federation. This conclusion would not please either side or its allies. And therefore it might be the only realistic way to stop the slaughter.

2) Ukrainian elections might result in a coalition government willing to negotiate a more generous settlement for Putin. The war would end, but with an even greater Russian threat to Ukraine and the rest of Europe than either faced before the war.

3) The unsustainable human and economic costs of the war could result in a coup removing Putin and installing a more realistic oligarchy that would negotiate a peace and blame the deposed Putin for the catastrophe. Putin’s political longevity so far (now well into a third decade in power, having survived a number of existential political crises) makes this notion unlikely.

4) A hollowed-out Russian military could finally collapse, allowing Ukraine to advance to its pre-February 2022 borders.

5) A strapped Ukraine, with its European allies under economic and social strain and the United States occupied with Iran, simply collapses. Russia then annexes most or all of the country. Or perhaps Putin sympathizers win an election, seek to capitulate, and hand over the rest of the country, along with Crimea and the Donbas, to Russia.

6) The war could simply drag on for years, resembling the bella interrupta of the Middle East...."

Or perhaps, just perhaps, the globohomos will stay out of Ukraine like we keep China out of Mexico preventing Ukraine from getting bombed to hell endlessly

They are completely unable/unwilling to make the connection between our stated NATO plans for Ukraine, our coup, and the final result.

The story always begin where Russia reacted and omits the first few chapters.

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

I have said this from the beginning. Ukraine was a part of the USSR for the first few decades of my life. Like 6 of them ('40s to '90s).

(10-28-2026 01:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:31 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

I keep asking the very same question over and over. Still no answer.

When I dont care, I dont post. Since you post in every Ukraine thread, its pretty obvious you care much more than you let on.

lol!!

(10-28-2026 05:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

I have said this from the beginning. Ukraine was a part of the USSR for the first few decades of my life. Like 6 of them ('40s to '90s).

it's all about access/control to the Black Sea ... people have always fought and died for commercial access ... it's how our species has evolved...

it's that simple...

back a dog into the corner and watch how 'woofy woof' rears the fangs...

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

Obama and Biden blew that by not enforcing the Budapest Memorandum Bill Clinton signed to do away with Ukraine's nukes and GAVE THEM ALL BACK TO RUSSIA. I wonder why Clinton did that?

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

Polling lol!

(10-25-2026 02:22 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-23-2026 01:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Never fear, Mel is here!

yo, flipBois, she actually pulled it off.

and lets compare that to first lady BigMike...




#putz

Ooops!


Good news!

(10-27-2026 11:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  You guys can thank Biden for inviting Russia in.

zerO allowed Pootey to take the first bite, sent MRE'S, pillows and sleeping bags.

Once that went un-responded to, He knew DAMN well there wouldn't be nary a peep from Sloe.

(10-28-2026 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

And then you have people who boast about how happy they are to pay a "little" more for fuel prices as long as Iran has no nukes, but on the other end wouldn't want to pay a "little" more to avoid a larger war in Europe that we would inevitably get involved in and make things 100x worse than what we are experiencing now. We all know Russia wouldn't stop with just Ukraine.

(10-27-2026 07:31 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

I keep asking the very same question over and over. Still no answer.

Its been explained many times by several of us. You just choose to ignore it over and over. You don't have to agree with our interpretation, but to pretend we have never said it, that's just stupid. Look up "Peace in our time."

But I'm at peace!!

(10-29-2026 10:55 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

And then you have people who boast about how happy they are to pay a "little" more for fuel prices as long as Iran has no nukes, but on the other end wouldn't want to pay a "little" more to avoid a larger war in Europe that we would inevitably get involved in and make things 100x worse than what we are experiencing now. We all know Russia wouldn't stop with just Ukraine.

Russia doesn't have the means to go beyond Ukraine.

I feel Russia has legitimate grievances with Ukraine, and Ukraine is a terrible neighbor to have. I don't think Russia would go beyond Ukraine, nor do I think they could militarily.

What would help Russia do that very thing would be for us (the deterrent) to continue sinking all of our $ and weapons into Ukraine.

(10-29-2026 01:10 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(10-29-2026 10:55 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

And then you have people who boast about how happy they are to pay a "little" more for fuel prices as long as Iran has no nukes, but on the other end wouldn't want to pay a "little" more to avoid a larger war in Europe that we would inevitably get involved in and make things 100x worse than what we are experiencing now. We all know Russia wouldn't stop with just Ukraine.

Russia doesn't have the means to go beyond Ukraine.

I feel Russia has legitimate grievances with Ukraine, and Ukraine is a terrible neighbor to have. I don't think Russia would go beyond Ukraine, nor do I think they could militarily.

What would help Russia do that very thing would be for us (the deterrent) to continue sinking all of our $ and weapons into Ukraine.

said it from day one...

again, it's all about access to the Black Sea...

if one believes global capitalism in any fiat is best method, one has to conquer to gain best access if landlocked ... in engineering terminology, it's defined by, "path of least resistance."

@neverInvadedAnyNATOnation

(10-28-2026 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

POLLING!!!

(10-29-2026 01:10 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(10-29-2026 10:55 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

While I believe most Americans don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

People believe all sorts of things. Your of course entitled to your personal opinion---but polling tells us that opinion is very much a minority opinion and is not shared with the vast majority of Americans. Polling tells us the American people are very much "for" Ukraine and cant stand Putin (by a wide margin). That said---I suspect Americans are much more evenly split on doing "whats good" for the Ukrainian people anywhere it might adversely affects "whats good" for the American people.

Where I am, and where the polling suggest the vast majority of the American people are is---

1) They absolutely cant stand Putin and do not want him to succeed in taking Ukraine.

2) To the extent we can help Ukraine without adversely affecting American interests---the vast majority of the American people are for that kind of aid.

3) Aid to the point where we are spending US tax dollars or doing so adversely affects the US---I suspect the percentage for and against that would be far more evenly divided.

4) Whats VERY clear in polling is there is virtually ZERO support for America doing anything that aids the Russian interests in Ukraine (other than seemingly inside the White House). For whatever reason, a guy blessed with the incredible instinctive ability to generally sense the will of the American people----is absolutely politically tone deaf on this issue. Trump is flat out on the wrong side of a 70-30 political issue on Ukraine (and its closer to 90-10 when the question regards doing anything to benefit Putin). Its gotten so bad Trump had to quickly back pedal and deny any knowledge of the recent Starlink/StarsShield misstep. Trump needs to shut up---ditch the Witcoff/Kuchner team---and turn the Ukraine issue over to Rubio (thats kinda what a Secretary of State is there for---and we have a very good one). This is not a winning issue for Trump. Let Rubio handle it and then take appropriate credit when Rubio (a key part of the Trump Administration) brokers a peace deal.

And then you have people who boast about how happy they are to pay a "little" more for fuel prices as long as Iran has no nukes, but on the other end wouldn't want to pay a "little" more to avoid a larger war in Europe that we would inevitably get involved in and make things 100x worse than what we are experiencing now. We all know Russia wouldn't stop with just Ukraine.

Russia doesn't have the means to go beyond Ukraine.

I feel Russia has legitimate grievances with Ukraine, and Ukraine is a terrible neighbor to have. I don't think Russia would go beyond Ukraine, nor do I think they could militarily.

What would help Russia do that very thing would be for us (the deterrent) to continue sinking all of our $ and weapons into Ukraine.

Leaders in Putin's party have said Moldova is next. There can be little question that if Ukraine fell, then Russia would move into Moldova which doesn't have much of a military. Other Russians in the legislature have said they want to take back the Baltics, which are NATO countries. Its clear from their actions, they want to control the eastern bloc again. They are working within Slovakia and Hungary.

(10-28-2026 02:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(10-27-2026 07:21 PM)b2b Wrote:  Why should I care if Russia takes Ukraine? I've still not gotten a good explanation. Probably a lot more children on both sides would still have fathers if they had.

Not sure if this applies to you or not, but I know many who have tried to justify our stuff in Iran as doing it in the best interest of the Iranian people.

I believe most Americans want what's best for the Ukrainian people and believe that the Ukrainian people know what's best for themselves and therefore should get to keep their sovereignty.

And yet we get “COUP!” from the peanut gallery. These people are not fighting like they don’t care. They are not fighting because a coup was forced on them by the “globohomos”. They are fighting like they have had a taste of freedom and like it.

The mafia boss always wants the next neighborhood.