And as you've probably heard one time or another, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.


Funny I can say ass but not *******.

(08-24-2025 08:58 AM)banker Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 07:39 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:10 PM)banker Wrote:  Your FIFY changed absolutely nothing.

Youve been programmed to blame Putin not Russia.

"Putin attacks Ukraine". No. Russia attacks

Read it again.

Poor old Ukraine vs mean old Putin.

Geography doesn’t invade other geography, armies do. Armies have human leadership. Land doesn’t negotiate, people do. By you changing Putin to Russia, you made my post far less accurate.

Oh, and I’ve not been programmed on the topic. You are the one that shows an incredible lack of curiosity regardless of any variance or nuance to any aspect of the conflict or its potential resolution.

Wut?

Russia invaded Ukraine.

Wow

You are programmed

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 09:31 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  This is one area where Trump has F-ed up royally. One day it’s “we had a great meeting in Alaska!” The next day is Putin’s people say they didn’t agree to anything. One day it’s Ukraine needs to play offense. The next he’s cutting them off at the knees for playing offense. One day it’s gonna be massive sanctions on Putin’s oil sales and the next he’s mad Putin’s oil sales have been cut off by Ukraine. Trump has been all over the place on this and mostly in Russia’s favor. I don’t know why but it is undeniable.
Trump might as well just give up on this. It looks like this will be his first loss.

Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

(08-24-2025 08:28 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Russia has a government. Putin isn't a dictator.

Some of you have totally bought into Russian propaganda. Putin is not a dictator but Zelensky is.

(08-24-2025 09:27 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 09:31 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  This is one area where Trump has F-ed up royally. One day it’s “we had a great meeting in Alaska!” The next day is Putin’s people say they didn’t agree to anything. One day it’s Ukraine needs to play offense. The next he’s cutting them off at the knees for playing offense. One day it’s gonna be massive sanctions on Putin’s oil sales and the next he’s mad Putin’s oil sales have been cut off by Ukraine. Trump has been all over the place on this and mostly in Russia’s favor. I don’t know why but it is undeniable.
Trump might as well just give up on this. It looks like this will be his first loss.

Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Are you forgetting Trump said he could end this war in a day. I guess he didn't say what day that would be.

If Trump doesn't want to be part of this bloodletting then he should publicly say he no longer wants to be part of settling this war.

He can do the ceremonial Pontius Pilate wash his hands of this and say its not my war and I am no longer concerned with how it plays out.

But he doesn't do that. Instead he comes across as weak in his interactions with the Russia and and Putin more specifically.

IMHO Trump doesn't have the stomach for this.

Another thing, you cannot come on television and say we will sell weapons to NATO to transfer to Ukraine and then determine how they can be used.

Not a good look and IMO makes us look untrustworthy.

If you don't want them used as the buyer intends don't sell them.

Biden did exactly that the whole time. They were scared of ww3 and believed Putins threats.

(08-24-2025 11:44 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 09:31 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  This is one area where Trump has F-ed up royally. One day it’s “we had a great meeting in Alaska!” The next day is Putin’s people say they didn’t agree to anything. One day it’s Ukraine needs to play offense. The next he’s cutting them off at the knees for playing offense. One day it’s gonna be massive sanctions on Putin’s oil sales and the next he’s mad Putin’s oil sales have been cut off by Ukraine. Trump has been all over the place on this and mostly in Russia’s favor. I don’t know why but it is undeniable.
Trump might as well just give up on this. It looks like this will be his first loss.

Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

Some of us look at history, Putin’s actions and the words of his subordinates and want Ukraine to stop him, not us in the Baltics. And they are already doing a lot of hacking sabotage in Europe.

Ok, y'all have bored me right back out of this subject again, lol.

I'm a product of the Vietnam war. Had a low draft number. Cost me 4 years in the military that I hadn't planned on at that time in my life. And after losing 58,000 Americans for absolutely nothing, including my best childhood friend and another buddy, pardon me if I don't give a damn about what Russia does to Ukraine, or vice versa.

Or whether Trump looks weak with whatever it is he's doing. Dude is maybe the most successful president in my lifetime. Let Z and Europe figure out this one. But don't fault Trump for trying. I mean, he has stopped something like 6 other wars in the last 7 months or so.

Tough crowd, lol.

(08-24-2025 11:14 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 08:58 AM)banker Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 07:39 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:10 PM)banker Wrote:  Your FIFY changed absolutely nothing.

Youve been programmed to blame Putin not Russia.

"Putin attacks Ukraine". No. Russia attacks

Read it again.

Poor old Ukraine vs mean old Putin.

Geography doesn’t invade other geography, armies do. Armies have human leadership. Land doesn’t negotiate, people do. By you changing Putin to Russia, you made my post far less accurate.

Oh, and I’ve not been programmed on the topic. You are the one that shows an incredible lack of curiosity regardless of any variance or nuance to any aspect of the conflict or its potential resolution.

Wut?

Russia invaded Ukraine.

Wow

You are programmed

So you support banning guns because they kill people? Who made the call, gave the order, for Russian troops to move on Ukraine? Without that order would “Russia” have attacked Ukraine?

I believe I have been clear on my position - I don’t care about Ukraine and I don’t care about Russia. If either, or both, ceased to exist tomorrow I would not care. However, to act like countries, and not the leaders of those countries, are responsible for wars requires a level of suspension of disbelief that I personally can’t fathom. If they had a vote and a majority of the citizens said “let’s invade Ukraine” your statement would have some legitimacy. And no, a majority saying they support it after it starts is not the same thing.

(08-24-2025 01:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 11:44 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 09:31 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  This is one area where Trump has F-ed up royally. One day it’s “we had a great meeting in Alaska!” The next day is Putin’s people say they didn’t agree to anything. One day it’s Ukraine needs to play offense. The next he’s cutting them off at the knees for playing offense. One day it’s gonna be massive sanctions on Putin’s oil sales and the next he’s mad Putin’s oil sales have been cut off by Ukraine. Trump has been all over the place on this and mostly in Russia’s favor. I don’t know why but it is undeniable.
Trump might as well just give up on this. It looks like this will be his first loss.

Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

Some of us look at history, Putin’s actions and the words of his subordinates and want Ukraine to stop him, not us in the Baltics. And they are already doing a lot of hacking sabotage in Europe.

Ukraine can't stop him, and European leaders obviously don't care that much. Why the hell do WE have to "stop him in the Baltics?" Screw that.

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union most of our lives. Why should we do another Vietnam? That's asinine, IMO.

(08-24-2025 01:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 01:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 11:44 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

Some of us look at history, Putin’s actions and the words of his subordinates and want Ukraine to stop him, not us in the Baltics. And they are already doing a lot of hacking sabotage in Europe.

Ukraine can't stop him, and European leaders obviously don't care that much. Why the hell do WE have to "stop him in the Baltics?" Screw that.

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union most of our lives. Why should we do another Vietnam? That's asinine, IMO.

I still dont understand how this is like Vietnam for the US. We arent sending troops there. If its anything like Vietnam, its Vietnam with the roles reversed.
We are the nation just sending weapons to the fight and Russia is the one having sending troops and suffering casualties. How many Russians died in Vietnam? None that Im aware of.

Im all for Trumps efforts to stop the killing. I think its ridiculous because neither side is "winning". They are both losing in my opinion. In order to solve this---both sides must be reasonable. I think the Ukrainians are more than willing to make a deal (and frankly, we have the leverage force them to take a reasonable deal)----but Russia is not interested thus far in anything approaching a reasonable compromise. Thats why I think Trump is going to sell Ukraine whatever they need---and hopefully he will quietly help them get their production of cruise missiles like the Neptune and Flamingo increased to the point they are able to deal real damage to Russia's oil infrastructure. Sadly, thats the only way at this point to get Putin to end this thing with the kind of reasonable terms required for a true long lasting peace. I think Trump knows that---but he would prefer not to have to increase the suffering in Russia if he can possibly avoid it---which is why he's moving very slowly down that road (which I think is reasonable--especially since under Trump the Europeans are footing the bill---not the US taxpayer).

(08-24-2025 01:39 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 01:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 01:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 11:44 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

Some of us look at history, Putin’s actions and the words of his subordinates and want Ukraine to stop him, not us in the Baltics. And they are already doing a lot of hacking sabotage in Europe.

Ukraine can't stop him, and European leaders obviously don't care that much. Why the hell do WE have to "stop him in the Baltics?" Screw that.

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union most of our lives. Why should we do another Vietnam? That's asinine, IMO.

I still dont understand how this is like Vietnam for the US. We arent sending troops there. If its anything like Vietnam, its Vietnam with the roles reversed.
We are the nation just sending weapons to the fight and Russia is the one having sending troops and suffering casualties. How many Russians died in Vietnam? None that Im aware of.

Im all for Trumps efforts to stop the killing. I think its ridiculous because neither side is "winning". They are both losing in my opinion. In order to solve this---both sides must be reasonable. I think the Ukrainians are more than willing to make a deal (and frankly, we have the leverage force them to take a reasonable deal)----but Russia is not interested thus far in anything approaching a reasonable compromise. Thats why I think Trump is going to sell Ukraine whatever they need---and hopefully he will quietly help them get their production of cruise missiles like the Neptune and Flamingo increased to the point they are able to deal real damage to Russia's oil infrastructure. Sadly, thats the only way at this point to get Putin to end this thing with the kind of reasonable terms required for a true long lasting peace. I think Trump knows that---but he would prefer not to have to go that far---which is why he's moving very slowly down that road (which I think is reasonable).

I agree. I only mentioned Nam b/c Bullet said we might have to stop Russia in the Baltics. Not in my world, we don't.

FWIW---This adds a bit to the Wall Street Journal reporting. The WSJ says the US approved the 850 million dollar sale of 3,550 Extended Range Attack Munition (ERAM) missiles to Ukraine on August 23rd (about the same time as Trumps tweet indicating Ukraine cant win by only being on defense). They also claim the sale while essentially approved---was delayed until after Trumps meeting with Putin on August 15th. Below is what is being reported regarding the use of these weapons that apparently require US targeting data. The new missiles have a range of around 150 to 280 miles. They cannot use these weapons without the US signing off on the target (we only allow their use against military or military support/industrial targets). This article also claims Ukraine still has a few ATACMS left. That said---from what I can tell, the basic ERAM is a defensive missile designed to take out cruise missiles and swarm drone attacks---but the term "Extended Range Attack Munition" also refers to a family of extended range weapons---some of which are defensive and some of which are offensive (so Im not entirely sure the writers of the article even understand exactly whats in this package---since the US would not have to sign off on the use these weapons to shoot down drones and incoming cruise missiles inside of Ukraine). Thus, Im assuming at least some of the ERAMs included in the sale must be offensive missiles.

Washington approved the sale of Extended-Range Attack Munition (ERAM) missiles to Ukraine, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported on Aug. 23, citing two unnamed U.S. officials.

The missile has a range of about 241-450 kilometers (150-280 miles) and is meant to be a quick-to-produce and low-cost weapon. The U.S. approved the sale of 3,550 ERAM missiles to Ukraine, which are set to arrive in approximately six weeks, two U.S. officials told WSJ.

The European-funded arms package valued at $850 million was postponed until after U.S. President Donald Trump met Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Aug. 15 and President Volodymyr Zelensky in the White House days later.

https://kyivindependent.com/us-approves-...j-reports/

(08-24-2025 01:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Ok, y'all have bored me right back out of this subject again, lol.

I'm a product of the Vietnam war. Had a low draft number. Cost me 4 years in the military that I hadn't planned on at that time in my life. And after losing 58,000 Americans for absolutely nothing, including my best childhood friend and another buddy, pardon me if I don't give a damn about what Russia does to Ukraine, or vice versa.

Or whether Trump looks weak with whatever it is he's doing. Dude is maybe the most successful president in my lifetime. Let Z and Europe figure out this one. But don't fault Trump for trying. I mean, he has stopped something like 6 other wars in the last 7 months or so.

Tough crowd, lol.

What Russia does to Ukraine doesn't directly affect us. What Putin is emboldened to do after he finishes with Ukraine definitely affects us.

He has a clear pattern. Stir up minorities. Create a "civil war" using some Russian mercenaries and then fully intervene. He did it in Georgia with Ossetians. He did it in Moldova with Russians (but he's waiting on Ukraine to finish the job-his people have said Moldova is next). He did it in Ukraine with Russians. He didn't start the war in Syria, but took advantage of it to protect pro Russian Assad for years. There are significant Russian minorities in NATO members Estonia and Latvia.

The idea is to stop him before we have to send our own troops. He could probably take the Baltics in a week. We could drive him out, but would we? With Biden he would probably take that bet. And that would be the end of NATO if we didn't defend a member.

Its the pattern with bullies everywhere. They need to be stood up to or they keep going on and on. Look at what's happening in our cities where we let criminals free on bail to continue crime sprees.

(08-24-2025 01:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 01:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 11:44 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:26 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Good grief your reading comprehension is chit. I said Trump should just quit trying to solve this. If you don’t care then just don’t care. Don’t try and find some secret reason that I do care. No one has to have some secret reason to disagree with you. I have said a thousand times that I’m absolutely behind DJT, however he’s not god. He could be wrong about something and if I think he is I will say so.

And maybe you should reconsider your thoughts on Russia not affecting you from ‘49 to ‘91. There was this little thing you may remember called the Cold War. You may remember that, right? And how much American treasure went to ‘fight’ that war? Yeah, russia did affect you even if you don’t realize it.

And the constant bullchit about Ukraine can’t win is fine with me. After all Russia has a juggernaut of an economy. It almost matches Italy’s.

And your reading comprehension apparently also sucks. You just have a high passionate level of interest in this subject, and I don't.

I'm not criticizing you. I even said that. I just find it unusual for somebody here to be this passionate about whether Russia takes territory from Ukraine, so I genuinely wanted to understand. No harm meant.

Not sure why that winds you up so much. But hey, carry on...

Some of us look at history, Putin’s actions and the words of his subordinates and want Ukraine to stop him, not us in the Baltics. And they are already doing a lot of hacking sabotage in Europe.

Ukraine can't stop him, and European leaders obviously don't care that much. Why the hell do WE have to "stop him in the Baltics?" Screw that.

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union most of our lives. Why should we do another Vietnam? That's asinine, IMO.

We have a treaty obligation in the Baltics.

Bullet, we're not going to agree.

"We have a treaty obligation in the Baltics."

Tell that to my best friend, Fred Fitzgerald, who died in Nam at the age of 19, for less than that. He should still be alive, like me.

Send your best friend over there. I already lost mine. A lifetime ago. For nothing.

(08-24-2025 04:10 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Bullet, we're not going to agree.

"We have a treaty obligation in the Baltics."

Tell that to my best friend, Fred Fitzgerald, who died in Nam at the age of 19, for less than that. He should still be alive, like me.

Send your best friend over there. I already lost mine. A lifetime ago. For nothing.

We should have no obligation to any country, including ungrateful parasitic European countries. The only obligation we should have is to defend our borders. If China and Russia take over their parts of the world, it's not our problem. Those countries should have learned to defend themselves instead of depending on us to do the job for them.

(08-24-2025 01:21 PM)banker Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 11:14 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 08:58 AM)banker Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 07:39 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:10 PM)banker Wrote:  Your FIFY changed absolutely nothing.

Youve been programmed to blame Putin not Russia.

"Putin attacks Ukraine". No. Russia attacks

Read it again.

Poor old Ukraine vs mean old Putin.

Geography doesn’t invade other geography, armies do. Armies have human leadership. Land doesn’t negotiate, people do. By you changing Putin to Russia, you made my post far less accurate.

Oh, and I’ve not been programmed on the topic. You are the one that shows an incredible lack of curiosity regardless of any variance or nuance to any aspect of the conflict or its potential resolution.

Wut?

Russia invaded Ukraine.

Wow

You are programmed

So you support banning guns because they kill people? Who made the call, gave the order, for Russian troops to move on Ukraine? Without that order would “Russia” have attacked Ukraine?

I believe I have been clear on my position - I don’t care about Ukraine and I don’t care about Russia. If either, or both, ceased to exist tomorrow I would not care. However, to act like countries, and not the leaders of those countries, are responsible for wars requires a level of suspension of disbelief that I personally can’t fathom. If they had a vote and a majority of the citizens said “let’s invade Ukraine” your statement would have some legitimacy. And no, a majority saying they support it after it starts is not the same thing.

Thats better. i just dont like all the muh Putin crap. The next guy could be worse.

The media always uses weasel words and people parrot them.

Frick Ukraine. They owe us tree fidy

(08-24-2025 01:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 09:27 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 10:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-23-2025 09:31 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  This is one area where Trump has F-ed up royally. One day it’s “we had a great meeting in Alaska!” The next day is Putin’s people say they didn’t agree to anything. One day it’s Ukraine needs to play offense. The next he’s cutting them off at the knees for playing offense. One day it’s gonna be massive sanctions on Putin’s oil sales and the next he’s mad Putin’s oil sales have been cut off by Ukraine. Trump has been all over the place on this and mostly in Russia’s favor. I don’t know why but it is undeniable.
Trump might as well just give up on this. It looks like this will be his first loss.

Seriously? You're blaming Trump for this mess? He didn't start the damn war. Putin did, b/c Biden was a moronic puzzy.

It isn't our responsibility to fix this mess. It's Europe's, and you see how damn fast those leaders folded after the DC meeting. All smoke and mirrors with them.

This goes back to what I tried to ask you the other day. Why do you care so much about what happens in Ukraine? This seems personal to you. Like I said before, I don't care if you feel that way, I'm just curious, not critical.

Personally, I don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine after last week's flop by the Euros. It's their neighborhood.

From 1945-91, all of Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. Were any of us actually affected by that? Nope.

If Putin takes Ukraine, it will be the same, unless he eventually tries to pull a Hitler, which he really doesn't have the ability to do, and he ain't using nukes.

Are you forgetting Trump said he could end this war in a day. I guess he didn't say what day that would be.

If Trump doesn't want to be part of this bloodletting then he should publicly say he no longer wants to be part of settling this war.

He can do the ceremonial Pontius Pilate wash his hands of this and say its not my war and I am no longer concerned with how it plays out.

But he doesn't do that. Instead he comes across as weak in his interactions with the Russia and and Putin more specifically.

IMHO Trump doesn't have the stomach for this.

Another thing, you cannot come on television and say we will sell weapons to NATO to transfer to Ukraine and then determine how they can be used.

Not a good look and IMO makes us look untrustworthy.

If you don't want them used as the buyer intends don't sell them.

Biden did exactly that the whole time. They were scared of ww3 and believed Putins threats.

Yeah, and like I didn’t give him or whoever was pulling the the strings a scathing salvo also.

IOW, if you aren’t willing to show your sharp teeth to an intruder why growl or bark?

(08-24-2025 01:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-24-2025 08:28 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Russia has a government. Putin isn't a dictator.

Some of you have totally bought into Russian propaganda. Putin is not a dictator but Zelensky is.

Both are

Whew

(08-24-2025 01:19 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Ok, y'all have bored me right back out of this subject again, lol.

I'm a product of the Vietnam war. Had a low draft number. Cost me 4 years in the military that I hadn't planned on at that time in my life. And after losing 58,000 Americans for absolutely nothing, including my best childhood friend and another buddy, pardon me if I don't give a damn about what Russia does to Ukraine, or vice versa.

Or whether Trump looks weak with whatever it is he's doing. Dude is maybe the most successful president in my lifetime. Let Z and Europe figure out this one. But don't fault Trump for trying. I mean, he has stopped something like 6 other wars in the last 7 months or so.

Tough crowd, lol.

Trump needs to grow a spine when dealing with Putin. You see it I see it anyone with a brain sees it

Talk to Putin like Dirty Harry would talk to a thug

At least that’s what Putin understands and Trump would gain an ounce of respect

Yes Trump has been the most successful President

This still doesn’t mean I’m gonna overlook gloss over or make excuses when I see him do things I question

Doing so would put me in the same camp as most of the leftist losers on this board

You know the ones who are full of talking points and excuses