(06-10-2025 08:10 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:00 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 01:16 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Hey Tanq, we miss you today in the peaceful protest thread.

eh, he's having fun watching cars burn. Leave him be and let him have fun

Only 3 cars, though.

I wonder if the Not Peaceful to Mostly Peaceful percentage is the same or higher than the day Democracy Almost died?

(06-10-2025 08:13 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:10 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:00 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 01:16 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Hey Tanq, we miss you today in the peaceful protest thread.

eh, he's having fun watching cars burn. Leave him be and let him have fun

Only 3 cars, though.

I wonder if the Not Peaceful to Mostly Peaceful percentage is the same or higher than the day Democracy Almost died?

Certainly not to the level of putting a battalion of active duty Marines into play on the streets.

Or bypassing the step of getting the Governor's agreement to Federalize.

I find it odd this forum gets a boner to deploy active Marines, and illegally Federalize the Nat Guard over this level of disturbance ---

yet seemingly has zero problem that the same chump who seems to get *his* hard on by not bothering to address a riot that is buying him time to avoid losing an election.

Really interesting nuance employed there.

(06-10-2025 07:23 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 12:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 08:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  There may not be an individual who had as much due process as Garcia. He had a final order of removal that the previous administration ignored. The only place he couldn't be deported to - by an old court order - was El Salvador. He had due process. All of it.

And was still on appeal to the final order. I guess just ignore that status and throw himn into some foreign hellhole w/o bother.

Do. It. The. Right. Way.

That is -- afford him the process of the appeal that was ongoing.

Or lets just have some fat slob in a cowboy hat and a mullet pick his file out, say 'he dont deserve none appeal', and simply ship him out.

Quote:Also to imply that the "Maryland dad" wasn't an effort to paint him as a mild mannered father who was kidnapped from his family in the middle of the night by ruthless and rogue agents of the Trump administration is not only a hill to die on it demonstrates loyalty to an ideology that criminalizes the law follower and victimizes the criminal. So whether he is or isn't a dad is a moot point. It's the narrative that was being created.

No worse than the as yet allegations against him that you so apparently fervently believe in. Lolz.

Hate to tell you champ, all of the above is job for the judicial system. That is -- due porcess. Not some LE/ administration schlomo decoding it for us. Nor for the govt to bark at us.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the term 'Maryland Dad' doesnt touch on the allegations of other stuff. But the word is 'allegations', my friend. Just as bad (probably worse) to tar and feather him in advance (as this administration ahs absolutely done) and without (heh) due process.

If the facts and the law lead to his conviction -- so be it. Somehow you are mad that the fact of his being a 'Maryland Dad' detracts from the *allegation* of him being some super villain in your mind? Neat stuff. Good lesson on why the court system exists when we have a representative of LE saying the above, mind you.

Almost all of this is drivel. And you talk like an 11 year old. Neat. Wowzer. Golly gee whiz. Please grow up.

Sorry to trigger you, bub. Lolz.

Quote:He had a final order of removal. End of story with respect to that issue. He had a withholding of removal to El Salvador only, but got sent there anyway.

The immigration judge ordered withholding of removal on October 10, 2019.
SA014. The judge found Abrego Garcia “credible,” observing that his “testimony
was internally consistent, externally consistent” with the “substantial
documentation,” and “appeared free of embellishment.” SA005.

The judge barred his deportation to El Salvador. End of Story.

Beginning of new story.

Abrego is arrested. He is falsely told 'your status has changed.' He has not afforded *any* ability to ascertain, let alone challenge, exactly *what* had changed. He was not afforded any access to counsel.

Quote:ICE acknowledged that mistake.

And then told the court to go fk itself, refusing any and all information about Abregos arrest, detention, current location or anything. And they lied to the court about the timing of the removal (see the Boseman case), and from appearances defied a court order on the removal that night -- which included Abrego.

And when queried specifically about Abrego by the judge, the DOJ attorney -- instead of lying to judge about the issue, told the judge on the record of the error. And the attorney was canned for that action. And that is the *only* time the government has referred to that error in the judicial record.

And in the record, there isnt even a singal basis *for* his rendition that day. Nothing. Not even notice of anything. Simply picked up, detained, and whisked out to a fing hellhole prison. Cool **** there, pardner.

So yeah, quite the fing mea culpa above.

Quote: I'm amused that he's getting what he's "due." The dossier on his illegal activities is thick. This will be one of the easiest cases we prosecute.

Cool beans. At least this time *you* (since you use the word 'we') will do it the right way. Actually afford him some due process on what is currently happening.

If the issue is cut and dried as you surmise above -- no sweat on my end. But dont take the cheap seat way out like *you* did previously.

Quote:But the bottom line is - as I stated previously - you unfortunately are too dim to get

And apparently you are too stupid to understand what due process is, and how it should be afforded -- since you want to go down the whiny **** route above. I would surmise that being that dense about due process and your galoophing about how great your stint with the DHS is doesnt paint a flattering picture of the delivery of law.

Quote:is the left and liberal media were trying to create a narrative about this person in the way they framed it.

Buddy, I understand exactly why the left says 'maryland dad'. To soften the view of the guy. Just like the equal and opposite lengths the shitbirds go to make him the epitome of pure evil -- which is to soften their egregious **** up, and to make sure that their champ Donnie boy doesnt get egg on his face for promoting the yahoo **** that they employed with Abrego. The yahoo dumb*** **** that comes with the green light to simply ditch due process.

What you miss is that I dont give a rat's ass if he is pure as the driven snow, or the devil's disciple. I care that what happens to him is meted out. In. The. Right. Way.

And no -- the dumbasses in the DHS *didnt* do it the right way with Abrego. And are furiously trying to deflect from that. Just like you are doing now, champ.

Somehow you have missed me saying Do. It. The. Right. Way. --- multiple times.

Quote:And you're doing exactly the same thing right now.

Uhhh....... read above, pardner.

Quote:Which is ironically no different than what you're accusing me of on the opposite side of the spectrum. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good opportunity to be a hypocrite.

Im pointing out your furious attempt to deflect from Not Doing It The Right Way.

(06-10-2025 10:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 07:23 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 12:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 08:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  There may not be an individual who had as much due process as Garcia. He had a final order of removal that the previous administration ignored. The only place he couldn't be deported to - by an old court order - was El Salvador. He had due process. All of it.

And was still on appeal to the final order. I guess just ignore that status and throw himn into some foreign hellhole w/o bother.

Do. It. The. Right. Way.

That is -- afford him the process of the appeal that was ongoing.

Or lets just have some fat slob in a cowboy hat and a mullet pick his file out, say 'he dont deserve none appeal', and simply ship him out.

Quote:Also to imply that the "Maryland dad" wasn't an effort to paint him as a mild mannered father who was kidnapped from his family in the middle of the night by ruthless and rogue agents of the Trump administration is not only a hill to die on it demonstrates loyalty to an ideology that criminalizes the law follower and victimizes the criminal. So whether he is or isn't a dad is a moot point. It's the narrative that was being created.

No worse than the as yet allegations against him that you so apparently fervently believe in. Lolz.

Hate to tell you champ, all of the above is job for the judicial system. That is -- due porcess. Not some LE/ administration schlomo decoding it for us. Nor for the govt to bark at us.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the term 'Maryland Dad' doesnt touch on the allegations of other stuff. But the word is 'allegations', my friend. Just as bad (probably worse) to tar and feather him in advance (as this administration ahs absolutely done) and without (heh) due process.

If the facts and the law lead to his conviction -- so be it. Somehow you are mad that the fact of his being a 'Maryland Dad' detracts from the *allegation* of him being some super villain in your mind? Neat stuff. Good lesson on why the court system exists when we have a representative of LE saying the above, mind you.

Almost all of this is drivel. And you talk like an 11 year old. Neat. Wowzer. Golly gee whiz. Please grow up.

Sorry to trigger you, bub. Lolz.

Quote:He had a final order of removal. End of story with respect to that issue. He had a withholding of removal to El Salvador only, but got sent there anyway.

The immigration judge ordered withholding of removal on October 10, 2019.
SA014. The judge found Abrego Garcia “credible,” observing that his “testimony
was internally consistent, externally consistent” with the “substantial
documentation,” and “appeared free of embellishment.” SA005.

The judge barred his deportation to El Salvador. End of Story.

Beginning of new story.

Abrego is arrested. He is falsely told 'your status has changed.' He has not afforded *any* ability to ascertain, let alone challenge, exactly *what* had changed. He was not afforded any access to counsel.

Quote:ICE acknowledged that mistake.

And then told the court to go fk itself, refusing any and all information about Abregos arrest, detention, current location or anything. And they lied to the court about the timing of the removal (see the Boseman case), and from appearances defied a court order on the removal that night -- which included Abrego.

And when queried specifically about Abrego by the judge, the DOJ attorney -- instead of lying to judge about the issue, told the judge on the record of the error. And the attorney was canned for that action. And that is the *only* time the government has referred to that error in the judicial record.

And in the record, there isnt even a singal basis *for* his rendition that day. Nothing. Not even notice of anything. Simply picked up, detained, and whisked out to a fing hellhole prison. Cool **** there, pardner.

So yeah, quite the fing mea culpa above.

Quote: I'm amused that he's getting what he's "due." The dossier on his illegal activities is thick. This will be one of the easiest cases we prosecute.

Cool beans. At least this time *you* (since you use the word 'we') will do it the right way. Actually afford him some due process on what is currently happening.

If the issue is cut and dried as you surmise above -- no sweat on my end. But dont take the cheap seat way out like *you* did previously.

Quote:But the bottom line is - as I stated previously - you unfortunately are too dim to get

And apparently you are too stupid to understand what due process is, and how it should be afforded -- since you want to go down the whiny **** route above. I would surmise that being that dense about due process and your galoophing about how great your stint with the DHS is doesnt paint a flattering picture of the delivery of law.

Quote:is the left and liberal media were trying to create a narrative about this person in the way they framed it.

Buddy, I understand exactly why the left says 'maryland dad'. To soften the view of the guy. Just like the equal and opposite lengths the shitbirds go to make him the epitome of pure evil -- which is to soften their egregious **** up, and to make sure that their champ Donnie boy doesnt get egg on his face for promoting the yahoo **** that they employed with Abrego. The yahoo dumb*** **** that comes with the green light to simply ditch due process.

What you miss is that I dont give a rat's ass if he is pure as the driven snow, or the devil's disciple. I care that what happens to him is meted out. In. The. Right. Way.

And no -- the dumbasses in the DHS *didnt* do it the right way with Abrego. And are furiously trying to deflect from that. Just like you are doing now, champ.

Somehow you have missed me saying Do. It. The. Right. Way. --- multiple times.

Quote:And you're doing exactly the same thing right now.

Uhhh....... read above, pardner.

Quote:Which is ironically no different than what you're accusing me of on the opposite side of the spectrum. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good opportunity to be a hypocrite.

Im pointing out your furious attempt to deflect from Not Doing It The Right Way.

Do you not ever get tired of losing?

(06-10-2025 09:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:13 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:10 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:00 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(06-09-2025 01:16 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Hey Tanq, we miss you today in the peaceful protest thread.

eh, he's having fun watching cars burn. Leave him be and let him have fun

Only 3 cars, though.

I wonder if the Not Peaceful to Mostly Peaceful percentage is the same or higher than the day Democracy Almost died?

Certainly not to the level of putting a battalion of active duty Marines into play on the streets.

Or bypassing the step of getting the Governor's agreement to Federalize.

I find it odd this forum gets a boner to deploy active Marines, and illegally Federalize the Nat Guard over this level of disturbance ---

yet seemingly has zero problem that the same chump who seems to get *his* hard on by not bothering to address a riot that is buying him time to avoid losing an election.

Really interesting nuance employed there.

So I guess I have to ask a few questions and share a few observations (sorry these are in no particular order):

- on J6 were people burning automobiles?
- on J6 how much of that crowd was unruly - I readily acknowledge a few people got out of hand on J6, but how many actual assaults occurred? Were people throwing bricks at law enforcement?

I am not condoning what a few people did on that oh-so fateful day. People who defaced public property or assaulted any official deserved consequences. But their actions were far from a riot that required reinforcements to regain control. The entire thing started and finished in 2 or 3 hours and in a very confined space.


So let's fast forward to last weekend. The number of 'peaceful" protesters was a significantly larger number of people (3 times, maybe 4 times ... maybe more) reports vary? The levels of violence and number of reported incidents is significantly higher.... This has gone on for days not hours and it is still not fully under control.




So, Was Trump pre mature to deploy the NG and Marines? If your answer is yes, then how long do you wait? How much has to be burned or looted? How many officers, ICE need to be assaulted with rocks and bricks before you call in for back up?

You can easily argue bring them in incited more violence .... but they were already breaking laws with little to no repercussions because the LA Police were (admittedly) overwhelmed. SO you just let these people continue to riot until they get tired and go home?



So Tanq, after my diatribe above I will ask you a more basic question - Are these people in LA "more entitled" to protest than those who protested on J6?

one would believe that even a "lawyer" would know the Commander in Chief has discretion over ALL armed forces of the United States, under Title 10, which includes the National Guard. But, apparently that would be a false assumption.

I'm still waiting for Tanq to return to the Summer of Love thread and defend his original position there.

He always lectures us for not answering his questions (b/c it's useless to debate him), but he ducks out of threads when things go against him. Otherwise, he blabbers on forever and never stops.

Hell I don't even read his questions.

(06-11-2025 08:24 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Hell I don't even read his questions.

Neither do I, unless they're really short. But I can see when his user name pops up, lol.

(06-11-2025 08:01 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  one would believe that even a "lawyer" would know the Commander in Chief has discretion over ALL armed forces of the United States, under Title 10, which includes the National Guard. But, apparently that would be a false assumption.

Maybe read the Posse Comitatus Act which prohibits certain uses of the Armed Services on domestic soil.

Or try looking at the section Trump used to invoke the Guard

10 USC 12046.

This "lawyer" can actually read the law, bub.

Id say maybe you should try, *before* going on a rhetorical cryfest. But, apparently that might be a false assumption that one might try that.

Just b/c you can read the law doesn't mean you always interpret it correctly. Several professional legal talking heads (also lawyers) seem to disagree with you.

(06-11-2025 07:56 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 09:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:13 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 08:10 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Only 3 cars, though.

I wonder if the Not Peaceful to Mostly Peaceful percentage is the same or higher than the day Democracy Almost died?

Certainly not to the level of putting a battalion of active duty Marines into play on the streets.

Or bypassing the step of getting the Governor's agreement to Federalize.

I find it odd this forum gets a boner to deploy active Marines, and illegally Federalize the Nat Guard over this level of disturbance ---

yet seemingly has zero problem that the same chump who seems to get *his* hard on by not bothering to address a riot that is buying him time to avoid losing an election.

Really interesting nuance employed there.

So I guess I have to ask a few questions and share a few observations (sorry these are in no particular order):

- on J6 were people burning automobiles?

Nope. The issue of whether to deploy the US military is 'how many vehicles are burnt'? The definition of a riot is

Quote:- on J6 how much of that crowd was unruly -

Enough where 1583 people faced Federal charges.

Quote:I readily acknowledge a few people got out of hand on J6, but how many actual assaults occurred?

At least 140 people were charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer. That is -- serious assault issues.

A total of 418 were charged with assault style charges in total.

11 were charged with assualting a member of the media.

Were people throwing bricks at law enforcement?

Quote:I am not condoning what a few people did on that oh-so fateful day. People who defaced public property or assaulted any official deserved consequences. But their actions were far from a riot that required reinforcements to regain control. The entire thing started and finished in 2 or 3 hours and in a very confined space.

And the President, the chief decision maker, simply locked himself in a private room a and furiously called members of Congress -- not about the riot, but about the vote.

Quote:So let's fast forward to last weekend. The number of 'peaceful" protesters was a significantly larger number of people (3 times, maybe 4 times ... maybe more) reports vary? The levels of violence and number of reported incidents is significantly higher.... This has gone on for days not hours and it is still not fully under control.

And the Governor of the state *decided* that local forces were sufficient for the purposes.

Quote:So, Was Trump pre mature to deploy the NG and Marines? If your answer is yes, then how long do you wait?

Yes. You actually interact with the Governor.

How long? That is the particular decision of that Governor. End of story.

Quote:How much has to be burned or looted? How many officers, ICE need to be assaulted with rocks and bricks before you call in for back up?

That is the decision of the local authorities. And the local authorities literally have to be in the loop, by law, for the decision to Federalize the NG.

Quote:You can easily argue bring them in incited more violence .... but they were already breaking laws with little to no repercussions because the LA Police were (admittedly) overwhelmed.

They Chief of police said they were overwhelmed Only after the Feds were brought in. Which, even the WSJ noted -- seriously inflamed the issue.

Quote: SO you just let these people continue to riot until they get tired and go home?

False premise. A US President defers to the local authorities in the matter. Until there is agreement between the local authorities and US govt that the Posse Comitatus needs to bypassed, and until the local authorities and US govt *agree* that control of the NG is better served under federal direction.

Quote:So Tanq, after my diatribe above I will ask you a more basic question - Are these people in LA "more entitled" to protest than those who protested on J6?

Nope, thats not the issue.

In the case of J6, Trump lackeys continue to use the pretext that the local folks failed to *ask* them for Fed assistance. Even when the evidence shows those local decision makers tried to get that assistance.

But the question there was, as it is in LA, the steps you have to go through to enable the stark step of active duty troops to quell a disturbance, and the Federalization of NG.

Trump short circuited the entire legal process of doing the above in the current LA case. For that, he is lauded by this board.

He is also defended by this board for abjectly failing to respond to the local decision makers for J6.

(06-11-2025 09:07 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Just b/c you can read the law doesn't mean you always interpret it correctly. Several professional legal talking heads (also lawyers) seem to disagree with you.

Then I suggest they do two things.

"Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States" -- shall means requirement. I suggest they reread the strict definition of 'shall'.

I also suggest they reread the Federal cases surrounding the only time a US President has bypassed the Governor of a state to Federalize the Guard.

Or maybe you read 10 USC and tell us the pathway to do that. Hint: it takes an invasion, a rebellion, or the state using its LE to openly contravene the law (i.e. the state being in rebellion).

I will grant that a small use of the active duty military to simply guard Federal buildings *might* be within Posse Comitatus. A battalion of Marines doesnt pass the smell test. Maybe you can tell us what the use is of battalion sized force to guard two buildings. Id be really interested.

==BREAK==

Once again, tanq reads stuff and spouts off on things he doesn't understand.

Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military being used in a law enforcement capacity. In other words, they can not conduct investigations, detain people, and make arrests.

Section 12406 allows the use of military forces to support and protect federal agents who are doing that work referenced above and facilities. The wide scale attacks on federal agents and facilities are not only putting the lives of agents at risk it is prohibiting them from doing their sworn LE duties. Which is the whole point of the riots and attacks. Whether the government could force deploy more agents to the area to help provide that protection instead of the military is debatable. The 1811, 1801, 0080, etc agent/officer/security force is generally pretty small nationally and redeploying them from other parts of the country would risk security elsewhere, particularly given riots are now happening in other cities. I imagine this is the argument that would be made in court. The military force was needed because the intense attacks on LE and inability to pull other LE from other places due to the threat nationally.

(06-11-2025 09:39 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Yep, just a garment worker...

(06-11-2025 09:48 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Once again, tanq reads stuff and spouts off on things he doesn't understand.

Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military being used in a law enforcement capacity. In other words, they can not conduct investigations, detain people, and make arrests.

Section 12406 allows the use of military forces to support and protect federal agents who are doing that work referenced above and facilities. The wide scale attacks on federal agents and facilities are not only putting the lives of agents at risk it is prohibiting them from doing their sworn LE duties. Which is the whole point of the riots and attacks. Whether the government could force deploy more agents to the area to help provide that protection instead of the military is debatable. The 1811, 1801, 0080, etc agent/officer/security force is generally pretty small nationally and redeploying them from other parts of the country would risk security elsewhere, particularly given riots are now happening in other cities. I imagine this is the argument that would be made in court. The military force was needed because the intense attacks on LE and inability to pull other LE from other places due to the threat nationally.

Sorry, 12406 doesnt do that.

Try reading it. The only usages of 12406 bypassing a Governor was 1) used when the state was in open and explicit defiance of Federal law; and 2) Nixon did so to have them deliver mail.

Not only that, even when the Governor is bypassed, 12406 states that "Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States". Shall. And amazingly -- that never happened.

Again, try reading it.

And, you gloss over that the last section of bypass can only be done when the government cannot enforce the law at all. Are you saying that the protests at the beginning brought the entire enforcement ability of ICE to a complete standstill, and that then peaceful protest *required* Federalization of 2000 troops?

Is ICE so piss poor run that a scrabble ass group of about 400 protesters requires Federalization? Seriously? Maybe you should include timing issues, instead of after the fact issues.

Not only that, up until that unilateral decision, the local authorities and governor were in agreement that the issue was under control.

Your argument devolves into: when the decision to Federalize was made, ICE was brought to a standstill by a relatively peaceful protest of about 600 people. And *after* the Federalization issue was unilaterally made (illegally) by Trump, yeah -- it really did escalate. Imagine that.

Every implementation of 12406 was done *with* the planning and cooperation of the state. That is required. The only bypass that has *ever* occurred for the last 90 years (until now) is when the state is in explicit and open defiance of Federal law. Which is the provision covered in c) of 12406.

(06-11-2025 10:00 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 09:48 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Once again, tanq reads stuff and spouts off on things he doesn't understand.

Posse Comitatus Act prevents the military being used in a law enforcement capacity. In other words, they can not conduct investigations, detain people, and make arrests.

Section 12406 allows the use of military forces to support and protect federal agents who are doing that work referenced above and facilities. The wide scale attacks on federal agents and facilities are not only putting the lives of agents at risk it is prohibiting them from doing their sworn LE duties. Which is the whole point of the riots and attacks. Whether the government could force deploy more agents to the area to help provide that protection instead of the military is debatable. The 1811, 1801, 0080, etc agent/officer/security force is generally pretty small nationally and redeploying them from other parts of the country would risk security elsewhere, particularly given riots are now happening in other cities. I imagine this is the argument that would be made in court. The military force was needed because the intense attacks on LE and inability to pull other LE from other places due to the threat nationally.

Sorry, 12406 doesnt do that.

Try reading it. The only usage of 12406 bypassing a Governor was used when the state was in open and explicit defiance of Federal law.

Not only that, even when the Governor is bypassed, 12406 states that "Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States". Shall. And amazingly -- that never happened.

Again, try reading it.

Every implementation of 12406 was done *with* the planning and cooperation of the state. That is required. The only bypass that has *ever* occurred (until now) is when the state is in explicit and open defiance of Federal law.

Tough shite. Cry harder

(06-11-2025 09:57 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 09:39 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

Yep, just a garment worker...

Taken before *or* after Trump unilaterally rolled the military in?