(11-26-2024 02:04 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 01:05 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:57 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:54 PM)maximus Wrote:  I love how the left thinks they have leg to stand on when it comes to basic economics.

Gtfo, you dont know schit about economics other than tax the rich and spend spend spend.

That goes for the pube economic illiterate knuckle dragging dopes in the GOP as well.

I think they do know... they just don't care.

The same lefties during the first Trump term didn’t say anything about Biden continuing the tariffs when he took over.

It’s fake outrage

FFS, for the umpteenth time. The tariffs Biden continued WERE TARGETED TARIFFS!!!!!

They were not blanket tariffs on all goods like trump is proposing in his post.

Do you STILL not comprehend the difference?

I’m comprehending this super well. What I’ve never comprehended from the left is how are targeted tariffs, more regulations, higher corporate taxes + minimum wage laws ok, but not a widespread tariff?

(11-26-2024 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 01:07 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:19 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 11:33 AM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  I'll play, what's the answer ?

The vast vast majority of Fentanyl comes in through guarded border crossings and is brought in my American citizens.

Quote:Here are the facts:

Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.

In 2022, U.S. citizens were 89 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers—12 times greater than convictions of illegal immigrants for the same offense.

In 2023, 93 percent of fentanyl seizures occurred at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal migration routes, so U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.

The location of smuggling makes sense because hard drugs at ports of entry are at least 96 percent less likely to be stopped than people crossing illegally between them.

At most, just 0.009 percent of the people arrested by Border Patrol for crossing illegally possessed any fentanyl whatsoever.

https://www.cato.org/blog/us-citizens-we...ckers-2022

The author of this article, David Bier, also believes that Obama “deported” over 800,000 illegals during his tenure. They changed the definition of deportation so any apprehension at the border was considered to be a “deportation.”

Since he doesn’t know these simple facts, this is a poor source to use.


Also, this guy admitted during a congressional hearing that’s he’s never been to the border. Not even close to an expert.

Good Point.

No, it's a horrible point, and wrong. But I get it, it doesn't fit your narrative, so it's wrong and fake.

And it doesn't even pass the smell test. You think drug cartels are entrusting illegal immigrants breaking the law to make dangerous border crossings in the middle of nowhere with loads of Fentanyl...and then expect them to get it to the correct people to then resell?

Or would they enlist Americans who can more easily get the drugs through points of entry? Americans who are selling and/or using the drugs...and have a way more vested interest in the profits, etc.?

And if you don't trust the cato figures, the CBP says the same thing. Of course, you don't trust them either. You trust some report by Jesse Watters on Fox.

Damn son are you trying to tell us that Mexico is not one big part of the problem with any of this?.

(11-26-2024 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 01:07 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:19 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 11:33 AM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  I'll play, what's the answer ?

The vast vast majority of Fentanyl comes in through guarded border crossings and is brought in my American citizens.

Quote:Here are the facts:

Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.

In 2022, U.S. citizens were 89 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers—12 times greater than convictions of illegal immigrants for the same offense.

In 2023, 93 percent of fentanyl seizures occurred at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal migration routes, so U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.

The location of smuggling makes sense because hard drugs at ports of entry are at least 96 percent less likely to be stopped than people crossing illegally between them.

At most, just 0.009 percent of the people arrested by Border Patrol for crossing illegally possessed any fentanyl whatsoever.

https://www.cato.org/blog/us-citizens-we...ckers-2022

The author of this article, David Bier, also believes that Obama “deported” over 800,000 illegals during his tenure. They changed the definition of deportation so any apprehension at the border was considered to be a “deportation.”

Since he doesn’t know these simple facts, this is a poor source to use.


Also, this guy admitted during a congressional hearing that’s he’s never been to the border. Not even close to an expert.

Good Point.

No, it's a horrible point, and wrong. But I get it, it doesn't fit your narrative, so it's wrong and fake.

And it doesn't even pass the smell test. You think drug cartels are entrusting illegal immigrants breaking the law to make dangerous border crossings in the middle of nowhere with loads of Fentanyl...and then expect them to get it to the correct people to then resell?

Or would they enlist Americans who can more easily get the drugs through points of entry? Americans who are selling and/or using the drugs...and have a way more vested interest in the profits, etc.?

And if you don't trust the cato figures, the CBP says the same thing. Of course, you don't trust them either. You trust some report by Jesse Watters on Fox.

You posted an article written by a hack globalist who is operating on an agenda, thats why it’s hard to believe any of his data. He’s no different than a Jesse Watters, who also pushes an agenda. I mean come on, go read Bier’s X feed and watch his Congressional Testimony 10 months ago. He’s a moron.

(11-26-2024 02:25 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 01:07 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:19 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The vast vast majority of Fentanyl comes in through guarded border crossings and is brought in my American citizens.

https://www.cato.org/blog/us-citizens-we...ckers-2022

The author of this article, David Bier, also believes that Obama “deported” over 800,000 illegals during his tenure. They changed the definition of deportation so any apprehension at the border was considered to be a “deportation.”

Since he doesn’t know these simple facts, this is a poor source to use.


Also, this guy admitted during a congressional hearing that’s he’s never been to the border. Not even close to an expert.

Good Point.

No, it's a horrible point, and wrong. But I get it, it doesn't fit your narrative, so it's wrong and fake.

And it doesn't even pass the smell test. You think drug cartels are entrusting illegal immigrants breaking the law to make dangerous border crossings in the middle of nowhere with loads of Fentanyl...and then expect them to get it to the correct people to then resell?

Or would they enlist Americans who can more easily get the drugs through points of entry? Americans who are selling and/or using the drugs...and have a way more vested interest in the profits, etc.?

And if you don't trust the cato figures, the CBP says the same thing. Of course, you don't trust them either. You trust some report by Jesse Watters on Fox.

You posted an article written by a hack globalist who is operating on an agenda, thats why it’s hard to believe any of his data. He’s no different than a Jesse Watters, who also pushes an agenda. I mean come on, go read Bier’s X feed and watch his Congressional Testimony 10 months ago. He’s a moron.

You honestly think that is HIS data?

There's literally direct links to the data in his article. Click on them, knock yourself out.

(11-26-2024 02:19 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 02:04 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 01:05 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:57 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 12:54 PM)maximus Wrote:  I love how the left thinks they have leg to stand on when it comes to basic economics.

Gtfo, you dont know schit about economics other than tax the rich and spend spend spend.

That goes for the pube economic illiterate knuckle dragging dopes in the GOP as well.

I think they do know... they just don't care.

The same lefties during the first Trump term didn’t say anything about Biden continuing the tariffs when he took over.

It’s fake outrage

FFS, for the umpteenth time. The tariffs Biden continued WERE TARGETED TARIFFS!!!!!

They were not blanket tariffs on all goods like trump is proposing in his post.

Do you STILL not comprehend the difference?

I’m comprehending this super well. What I’ve never comprehended from the left is how are targeted tariffs, more regulations, higher corporate taxes + minimum wage laws ok, but not a widespread tariff?

Clearly.

Corporate tax RATES are not what corporations actually pay. And the main reason for trump cutting the corporate rates was to lower prices, increase hiring, and increase wages. Pretty much none of that happened. Most corporations just pocketed the windfall, not hiring more (they only hire when they have product to sell and need workers), and used the rest for stock buybacks. That's why trickle down economics has NEVER been shown to work.

Targeted tariffs can work, and they're usually fairly small. A blanket 25% tariff on everything would be a disaster. It would be a direct tax on consumers of nearly all the amount of the tariff. That's why most ALL economists agree that they will be paid by consumers.

And I'm not for regulation just for regulations sake. Clearly we need less red tape, but I also want to breath clean air, drink clean water, and eat safe meat and poultry.

Sheinbaum, reading aloud Tuesday from a letter she intends to send to the US president-elect after he vowed to slap 25% tariffs on all goods from Mexico and Canada, said cooperation would be a better way to curb the flow of migrants and illegal drugs.

It's amazing. trump had 4 years and all he had to do was threaten a 25% tariff and suddenly our immigration crisis with Mexico would easily go away.

You guys don't truly believe this, right?

But maybe you'll finally find that the immigration problem is mainly due to issues with the whole asylum process and that Congress still has not fixed it for going on 3 decades now.

(11-26-2024 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's amazing. trump had 4 years and all he had to do was threaten a 25% tariff and suddenly our immigration crisis with Mexico would easily go away.

You guys don't truly believe this, right?

But maybe you'll finally find that the immigration problem is mainly due to issues with the whole asylum process and that Congress still has not fixed it for going on 3 decades now.

Bless your heart.

Poor commietom.

(11-26-2024 03:03 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  Sheinbaum, reading aloud Tuesday from a letter she intends to send to the US president-elect after he vowed to slap 25% tariffs on all goods from Mexico and Canada, said cooperation would be a better way to curb the flow of migrants and illegal drugs.

Well to be fair, we all (Well, Biden Admin) cooperated with Canada and Mexico making it easy to let them in so I can only assume cooperation is needed to make these people stay put now?

(11-26-2024 01:50 PM)boss man Wrote:  How do we know Trump's announcement of tariffs on MX and CA effective 1/21/25 are effective? Both MX and CA reacted IMMEDIATELY.

bwahahahahaha

it was so effective that Mexico and Canada caved while the libturds on this thread were still shrieking TARIFFS! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

(11-25-2024 11:32 PM)Todor Wrote:  Americas appetite for drugs will ensure they don’t stop flowing.

They never have before.

They aren’t going to now.

meh... you'd be surprised what a 25% hike in your costs will make you do. Plenty of drugs can be made from domestic sources. Blaming the demand and shrugging your shoulders at a problem is a big part of WHY these efforts fail. You seem to have no intention of trying to even REDUCE the issue.


It's pretty obvious that border have two sides. Why is it only OUR responsibility to keep their 'bad' people out? I get that they're fine with exporting their problems... which is why they need some incentive to stop.

(11-26-2024 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's amazing. trump had 4 years and all he had to do was threaten a 25% tariff and suddenly our immigration crisis with Mexico would easily go away.

You guys don't truly believe this, right?

But maybe you'll finally find that the immigration problem is mainly due to issues with the whole asylum process and that Congress still has not fixed it for going on 3 decades now.

WHat a stupid response.

a) Trump essentially secured the border.... and was thwarted by Democrats in Congress from doing even more. Now he has to do even more.... because he's got to 'undo' the damage those same morons caused.

b)only a MORON (Biden/Harris) would 'make the problem of asylum worse' by admitting millions more people while blaming 'congress' for not acting... especially when you've often controlled at least one house and sometimes both.

c) you seem to forget that for most of those 3 decades, the focus has been on 'securing the border' from both parties... even back to and including Obama and of course Trump... but ESPECIALLY Clinton. The left threw this out the window over the last 4 years... and interestingly, all while their puppets in academia were predicting this massive shift in demographics that would ensure leftist control of politics for decades to come. Odd that.

PRIOR to that we had the exact same problem... and under Reagan a 'deal' was brokered where illegal immigrants here were granted asylum in exchange for that secured border.

The problem with asylum is that 'your side' has almost no situation where you wouldn't grant asylum... even for things that we wouldn't allow here. The best idea is for those people to stay where they are and vote to make their own country better as opposed to spending billions collectively to come here and make our country arguably worse. This is not a land still being explored and developed as it was 150 years ago.... some of THOSE nations still are. Not literally, but 'economically'.... which is the primary driver of standards of living.

(11-26-2024 03:50 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's amazing. trump had 4 years and all he had to do was threaten a 25% tariff and suddenly our immigration crisis with Mexico would easily go away.

You guys don't truly believe this, right?

But maybe you'll finally find that the immigration problem is mainly due to issues with the whole asylum process and that Congress still has not fixed it for going on 3 decades now.

Bless your heart.

Poor commietom.

Tom - just stop.

I wish I could cut and paste this Graph but I can only post the data points below. and for the Record - Barry's administration has a good track record on this as well actually.

The following is per year listing of Border Crossing encounters from 2008 to current:

2008 723K
2009 526K
2010 463K
2011 340K
2012 364K
2013 420K
2014 486K
2015 337K
2016 415K
2017 310K
2018 404K
2019 859K
2020 405K
2021 1.662M
2022 2.214M
2023 2.063M
2024 Fast approaching 3M

ILLEGAL - operative word here - boarder crossing encounters during your boy's last 4 years is not defendable - not even a little.

Trumps 4 years COMBINED did not match any of the last individual years of Bidens term. Same for each of Barry's 4 year totals.

Is a Tariff a be all and all solution - No it is not. It is already proving to be a much better answer to ANYTHING the Biden Admin has done.

GFY Tom --- GFY

(11-26-2024 03:03 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  Sheinbaum, reading aloud Tuesday from a letter she intends to send to the US president-elect after he vowed to slap 25% tariffs on all goods from Mexico and Canada, said cooperation would be a better way to curb the flow of migrants and illegal drugs.

lol.... like we haven't been the ones seeking cooperation. How about a little 'stick' to go with that carrot? Get off your entitled asses living off of our good graces.

(11-26-2024 05:06 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Tariffs are a tax resulting in higher prices, all other factors equal.

Enhancing national security is an acceptable reason for a tax and I hope a resurgent of American productivity (through DOGE and other means) will largely mitigate cost increases.

Our friends to the north and south merely have to do the right thing to avoid economic pain they will experience disproportionately compared to the US.

The thing is, it is the American companies that owned factories and all that in Canada, Mexico and China.

I remember when I was a kid, we could visit Vancouver from the state of Washington for a day visit without a passport. This was in the Nixon era.

Second, the people who actually smuggled drugs in from Mexico are white US born citizens. White men are guilty of a lot of the illegal drugs coming in from Mexico. One of Jacques Coustaeu's divers used to smuggled drugs into the US using subs. Jacques gave Steve Arrington a second chance to turn his life around.

Steve Arrington's Life Turned Around

Drug smuggling to get drugs into the country through subs and all that is a thing. They don't need to hire migrants to brings illegal drugs into the country when they could hire white US citizens who wants to earn quick money that have these subs, boats and planes to bring drugs into the country. Just buy a piece of land out in the country, and build a crudely made runway to have planes take off and land to deliver the drugs that way. Yes, even we crack down on that, but they are still doing it. We are also working with the Mexican government, and we got El Chapo behind bars. We are still working with them to nail the other cartels right now. It takes time to crack them all down since they move around a lot. Many of those illegals are fleeing from these cartels because they are afraid for their lives.

A Winnamin Overdose – Mexico Threatens to Retaliate Against Trump Border Security Tariffs

Quote:Other than Trump winning the election, this is the best news all year. Mexico is threatening to retaliate against Trump’s border security tariffs, with some form of economic punishment. Pinch me, this is too awesome.

Keep in mind that around 35% of Mexico’s GDP is contingent upon exports to the USA, meanwhile only around 1% of our stuff exports to them. Then add in the remittances of dollars to Mexico, and more than 50% of the Mexican economy is contingent upon us just being friendly to their needs.

Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum has no clue or comprehension about the scale of Trump’s leverage over her. This is like a spoiled teenager threatening to cut up the credit card dad gave her if she can’t go to the concert. Beyond funny.

WASHINGTON DC – Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum said her government would retaliate if President-elect Donald Trump moves forward with his threat to impose a 25 percent tariff on the country, warning of severe economic consequences for companies operating in both countries.

Sheinbaum unveiled the letter during her daily press conference in Mexico City, which responded to Trump’s plan to slap 25 percent tariffs on all goods from Mexico and Canada in an effort to crack down on the flow of migrants and illegal drugs into the United States. Trump also pledged an additional 10 percent tariff on China.

“For every tariff, there will be a response in kind,” Sheinbaum wrote in a letter sent to Trump. The text was released by the Mexican Embassy Tuesday morning, which said the economic fallout of a trade war would harm shared enterprises, particularly automotive companies that operate in both countries.


“Among Mexico’s main exporters to the United States are General Motors, Stellantis, and Ford Motor Company, which arrived in Mexico 80 years ago. Why impose a tariff that would jeopardize them? Such a measure would be unacceptable and would lead to inflation and job losses in both the United States and Mexico,” she added, according to a translated version of the letter provided by the Mexican Embassy.

The Mexican automotive industry is particularly exposed to a heightened trade conflict with Washington. Trump has repeatedly complained about auto imports from Mexico, accusing the country of being a back door for China, and floated 200 percent tariffs or higher on vehicles from south of the border.

Sheinbaum said she hopes her team can meet with members of the Trump administration to “continue building joint solutions.” (read more)

This is just too cool. If we are lucky, I mean really lucky, Mexico will block all trade and economic relations with the USA. That would be awesome for us.

Can you imagine how the multinational corporations are looking at this? They have funneled hundreds of billions in investments into Mexico, solely for the purpose of having access to the USA market. Sheinbaum can make all those investments disappear overnight and simultaneously collapse her government.

If Mexico blocked trade with the USA, Florida farmers would be instant bazillionaires and the value of Florida farmland would quadruple overnight. There is absolutely NO DOWNSIDE to a permanent, fixed infrastructure border wall and enforcement that blocks all migrants from entry and bottlenecks them inside Mexico.

Mexico exists because we let them exist. Mexico is wealthy because we give them dollars.

Cessation of all economic relations with Mexico would be extremely awesome for us. The only geopolitical downside would be the possibility of Russian or Chinese military bases in Mexico in a few years because Mexico would become impoverished and dirt cheap within weeks. Sheinbaum has no concept of the leverage in this dynamic.

I shall put down my winnamins, and pray she follows through with her threats. The Mexican peso has already dropped 30% this year. lol

OMG, can you imagine what the conversations are amid German automakers right now.

I’ll shut up.

This is too much fun, and he’s not even in office yet.

(11-26-2024 04:04 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-25-2024 11:32 PM)Todor Wrote:  Americas appetite for drugs will ensure they don’t stop flowing.

They never have before.

They aren’t going to now.

meh... you'd be surprised what a 25% hike in your costs will make you do. Plenty of drugs can be made from domestic sources. Blaming the demand and shrugging your shoulders at a problem is a big part of WHY these efforts fail. You seem to have no intention of trying to even REDUCE the issue.


It's pretty obvious that border have two sides. Why is it only OUR responsibility to keep their 'bad' people out? I get that they're fine with exporting their problems... which is why they need some incentive to stop.

(11-26-2024 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's amazing. trump had 4 years and all he had to do was threaten a 25% tariff and suddenly our immigration crisis with Mexico would easily go away.

You guys don't truly believe this, right?

But maybe you'll finally find that the immigration problem is mainly due to issues with the whole asylum process and that Congress still has not fixed it for going on 3 decades now.

WHat a stupid response.

a) Trump essentially secured the border.... and was thwarted by Democrats in Congress from doing even more. Now he has to do even more.... because he's got to 'undo' the damage those same morons caused.

b)only a MORON (Biden/Harris) would 'make the problem of asylum worse' by admitting millions more people while blaming 'congress' for not acting... especially when you've often controlled at least one house and sometimes both.

c) you seem to forget that for most of those 3 decades, the focus has been on 'securing the border' from both parties... even back to and including Obama and of course Trump... but ESPECIALLY Clinton. The left threw this out the window over the last 4 years... and interestingly, all while their puppets in academia were predicting this massive shift in demographics that would ensure leftist control of politics for decades to come. Odd that.

PRIOR to that we had the exact same problem... and under Reagan a 'deal' was brokered where illegal immigrants here were granted asylum in exchange for that secured border.

The problem with asylum is that 'your side' has almost no situation where you wouldn't grant asylum... even for things that we wouldn't allow here. The best idea is for those people to stay where they are and vote to make their own country better as opposed to spending billions collectively to come here and make our country arguably worse. This is not a land still being explored and developed as it was 150 years ago.... some of THOSE nations still are. Not literally, but 'economically'.... which is the primary driver of standards of living.

Wow, the disappearing act returns, only to call someone's response stupid. Yeah, nobody missed your "insight."

The US doesn't always have to be the good guy in negotiations. I'd tell Mexico they are welcome to respond 'in kind'. I'd also tell them if they can't stop the flow of drugs and illegals, they should expect the US to treat them as conspirators in breaking US immigration law. As for the drug cartels, the US will treat them like terrorist organizations and immediately begin cruise missile attack on all know operational facilities.

Why not address his points? Hambone is 100% on the money.

Here’s an example that the left might understand…

If China+Mexico allowed illegal guns to enter through the border undetected, and those same weapons were then used to murder innocents in schools or public places, would you complain about a 25% tariff to pressure those countries into stopping it?

Mexico threatening us

Filth run things for 4 years and those tards get lippy.