(09-26-2022 09:42 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-26-2022 09:40 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Understand that ShereKlan has mailed in his 666 Russian referendum ballots

It’s more fun when the salt comes from seemingly nowhere—like your comment.

Tigershitty is one of the dumbest posters here. I like Putin better than him

:



This guy is funding a country with real Nazis and he is jerking it

Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”

https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/modern-u...kissinger/


I been sayin it. Aint i been sayin it

(09-28-2022 11:15 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”

https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/modern-u...kissinger/


I been sayin it. Aint i been sayin it

lol---is that the same Finland that just requested NATO membership? Eventually its going to occur to folks that Russia's own bad behavior is what's driving Russian neighbors into the arms of NATO---not NATO's burning desire to move east. Has anyone noticed that the nations joining NATO got to be NATO nations by ASKING to join? NATO tanks didnt over run Polish troops to make Poland a NATO nation. But look everywhere that Russia has expanded----Russian tanks came first---THEN came the annexation.

Finally---Kissenger misses a pretty big point----Ukraine has been asking for NATO membership since the 1990's and NATO has said "No". The last time was 2008 and NATO rejected Ukraine's membership after Russia objected. Georgia's request was also rejected. So, Putin will have to try again to find another propaganda lie to cover his expansionist vanity war--but your welcomed to believe all the Russian propaganda you want.

(09-28-2022 12:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 11:15 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”

https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/modern-u...kissinger/


I been sayin it. Aint i been sayin it

lol---is that the same Finland that just requested NATO membership? Eventually its going to occur to folks that Russia's own bad behavior is what's driving Russian neighbors into the arms of NATO---not NATO's burning desire to move east. Has anyone noticed that the nations joining NATO got to be NATO nations by ASKING to join? NATO tanks didnt over run Polish troops to make Poland a NATO nation. But look everywhere that Russia has expanded----Russian tanks came first---THEN came the annexation.

Finally---Kissenger misses a pretty big point----Ukraine has been asking for NATO membership since the 1990's and NATO has said "No". The last time was 2008 and NATO rejected Ukraine's membership after Russia objected. Georgia's request was also rejected. So, Putin will have to try again to find another propaganda lie to cover his expansionist vanity war--but your welcomed to believe all the Russian propaganda you want.

You're missing the point, i.e. the Russians perspective. First, after the cold war, the US promised that NATO wouldn't expand further in to Warsaw Pact countries. We violated that promise. From a Russian point of view, NATO is an anti-Russia alliance. We view NATO as defensive but to Russians, it is a threat. We've added dozens of countries to NATO touching up on their border. In the last decade, the US and EU sponsored a coup in Ukraine which saw the pro-Russia President driven from power and replaced with a pro-EU President. Russia responded by annexing Crimea and destabilizing the Donbass to prevent Ukraine from falling into the orbit of NATO. After talking about Ukraine joining NATO in the future (a red line) for Russia, Russia launched it's invasion. Russia feels threatened and it's acting out to protect itself in it's view. We're foolish for failing to recognize this and instead our leaders just call Putin Hitler. Imagine if China added Mexico and all of central and south America to an anti-US alliance? How would we feel? We'd be very upset and probably overthrow the government of Mexico.

(09-28-2022 12:37 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 12:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 11:15 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”

https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/modern-u...kissinger/


I been sayin it. Aint i been sayin it

lol---is that the same Finland that just requested NATO membership? Eventually its going to occur to folks that Russia's own bad behavior is what's driving Russian neighbors into the arms of NATO---not NATO's burning desire to move east. Has anyone noticed that the nations joining NATO got to be NATO nations by ASKING to join? NATO tanks didnt over run Polish troops to make Poland a NATO nation. But look everywhere that Russia has expanded----Russian tanks came first---THEN came the annexation.

Finally---Kissenger misses a pretty big point----Ukraine has been asking for NATO membership since the 1990's and NATO has said "No". The last time was 2008 and NATO rejected Ukraine's membership after Russia objected. Georgia's request was also rejected. So, Putin will have to try again to find another propaganda lie to cover his expansionist vanity war--but your welcomed to believe all the Russian propaganda you want.

You're missing the point, i.e. the Russians perspective. First, after the cold war, the US promised that NATO wouldn't expand further in to Warsaw Pact countries. We violated that promise. From a Russian point of view, NATO is an anti-Russia alliance. We view NATO as defensive but to Russians, it is a threat. We've added dozens of countries to NATO touching up on their border. In the last decade, the US and EU sponsored a coup in Ukraine which saw the pro-Russia President driven from power and replaced with a pro-EU President. Russia responded by annexing Crimea and destabilizing the Donbass to prevent Ukraine from falling into the orbit of NATO. After talking about Ukraine joining NATO in the future (a red line) for Russia, Russia launched it's invasion. Russia feels threatened and it's acting out to protect itself in it's view. We're foolish for failing to recognize this and instead our leaders just call Putin Hitler. Imagine if China added Mexico and all of central and south America to an anti-US alliance? How would we feel? We'd be very upset and probably overthrow the government of Mexico.

The Zalonskistans just pretend none of that happened.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Is Russia finally turning on Putin? Protests and mass exodus and the kremlin's tacit acknowledgment that they will no longer be the supplier of gas to Europe seem to be moving things in that direction. It's all falling apart around him and Putin may be in a fight for his own life . And now the attack on the all but useless Nord stream Pipelines.

(09-29-2022 09:41 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Is Russia finally turning on Putin? Protests and mass exodus and the kremlin's tacit acknowledgment that they will no longer be the supplier of gas to Europe seem to be moving things in that direction. It's all falling apart around him and Putin may be in a fight for his own life . And now the attack on the all but useless Nord stream Pipelines.

Sure sure. Keep guzzeling it

(09-28-2022 12:37 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 12:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 11:15 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Mr. Kissinger courted controversy earlier this year by suggesting that incautious policies on the part of the U.S. and NATO may have touched off the crisis in Ukraine. He sees no choice but to take Vladimir Putin’s stated security concerns seriously and believes that it was a mistake for NATO to signal to Ukraine that it might eventually join the alliance: “I thought that Poland—all the traditional Western countries that have been part of Western history—were logical members of NATO,” he says. But Ukraine, in his view, is a collection of territories once appended to Russia, which Russians see as their own, even though “some Ukrainians” do not. Stability would be better served by its acting as a buffer between Russia and the West: “I was in favor of the full independence of Ukraine, but I thought its best role was something like Finland.”

https://mronline.org/2022/08/16/modern-u...kissinger/


I been sayin it. Aint i been sayin it

lol---is that the same Finland that just requested NATO membership? Eventually its going to occur to folks that Russia's own bad behavior is what's driving Russian neighbors into the arms of NATO---not NATO's burning desire to move east. Has anyone noticed that the nations joining NATO got to be NATO nations by ASKING to join? NATO tanks didnt over run Polish troops to make Poland a NATO nation. But look everywhere that Russia has expanded----Russian tanks came first---THEN came the annexation.

Finally---Kissenger misses a pretty big point----Ukraine has been asking for NATO membership since the 1990's and NATO has said "No". The last time was 2008 and NATO rejected Ukraine's membership after Russia objected. Georgia's request was also rejected. So, Putin will have to try again to find another propaganda lie to cover his expansionist vanity war--but your welcomed to believe all the Russian propaganda you want.

You're missing the point, i.e. the Russians perspective. First, after the cold war, the US promised that NATO wouldn't expand further in to Warsaw Pact countries. We violated that promise. From a Russian point of view, NATO is an anti-Russia alliance. We view NATO as defensive but to Russians, it is a threat. We've added dozens of countries to NATO touching up on their border. In the last decade, the US and EU sponsored a coup in Ukraine which saw the pro-Russia President driven from power and replaced with a pro-EU President. Russia responded by annexing Crimea and destabilizing the Donbass to prevent Ukraine from falling into the orbit of NATO. After talking about Ukraine joining NATO in the future (a red line) for Russia, Russia launched it's invasion. Russia feels threatened and it's acting out to protect itself in it's view. We're foolish for failing to recognize this and instead our leaders just call Putin Hitler. Imagine if China added Mexico and all of central and south America to an anti-US alliance? How would we feel? We'd be very upset and probably overthrow the government of Mexico.

Putin and his ogliarchs are greedy, more than scared.

We didn't make mistakes with Ukraine other than missing how much Putin was being to lose his faculties.

Clinton did make a mistake in Yugoslavia and Kosovo. We violated all the rules we are telling Russia to obey and did it to a traditional Russian ally. We allowed murder of UN peacekeepers and ethnic cleansing of Serbs by the Croatians and then invited them into NATO and the EU without really any apologizes. Then we detached Kosovo from Serbia, getting involved in a civil war. But with Dayton we didn't allow the Serbs in Bosnia to rejoin Serbia after the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Russian "allies" China, india, kazakhstan, and Serbia will *not recognize* the Russian referendums to Annex portions of Ukraine as legitimate. Putin is pretty much flying solo now.

If true, this would be ******* hilarious.