(09-21-2022 02:52 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  In an address to the nation on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization has been decreed, making Russian citizens currently in reserve subject to conscription. The announcement comes after the self-declared Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR), and eastern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia announced plans to hold votes on joining Russia. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called the referendum an "escalation in Putin's war." Keep it here for the latest on-the-ground updates.

Seems to me this is not a war the U.S. should be involved in anyway. Just sayin what I've said since day 1. If I turn against my original opinion and end up disagreeing with it I'll be more than happy to admit.

Honestly, I dont care about it any further than there is simply too much of a chance Putin goes after NATO nations (most likely the Baltic states) after he digests Ukraine---which would draw US servicemen directly into a war. Maybe he means the stuff about NATO---maybe he doesnt. But he's stated before that he believed certain areas should be Russian satellite states and then he used his military to try and get what he wanted (both in Georgia and Ukraine). I mean---its not like that kind of expansionist talk by your neighbor president should be taken lightly. You dont see NATO presidents regularly talking about invading Russia or its puppet states do you? In fact---pretty much everywhere you have a leader mouthing off like Putin you either have a war or at the minimum---a huge arms build up (N-S Korea, China-Taiwan, India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab nations, etc).

That said---if we were not part of NATO, Id be fine with staying out of it---though Id also have zero issues with selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself with. Thats just good old fashioned capitalism.

(09-21-2022 03:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:52 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  In an address to the nation on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization has been decreed, making Russian citizens currently in reserve subject to conscription. The announcement comes after the self-declared Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR), and eastern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia announced plans to hold votes on joining Russia. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called the referendum an "escalation in Putin's war." Keep it here for the latest on-the-ground updates.

Seems to me this is not a war the U.S. should be involved in anyway. Just sayin what I've said since day 1. If I turn against my original opinion and end up disagreeing with it I'll be more than happy to admit.

Honestly, I dont care about it any further than there is simply too much of a chance Putin goes after NATO nations (most likely the Baltic states) after he digests Ukraine---which would draw US servicemen directly into a war. Maybe he means the stuff about NATO---maybe he doesnt. But he's stated before that he believed certain areas should be Russian satellite states and then he used his military to try and get what he wanted (both in Georgia and Ukraine). I mean---its not like that kind of expansionist talk by your neighbor president should be taken lightly. You dont see NATO presidents regularly talking about invading Russia or its puppet states do you? In fact---pretty much everywhere you have a leader mouthing off like Putin you either have a war or at the minimum---a huge arms build up (N-S Korea, China-Taiwan, India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab nations, etc).

That said---if we were not part of NATO, Id be fine with staying out of it---though Id also have zero issues with selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself with. Thats just good old fashioned capitalism.

When I saw that the some of these arms deals would be paid back and are basically similar to some of our deals with GB in WWII that they finally paid back in full from WWII in 2020 I relaxed my stance a bit. I must say I have been lazy to look into the details to see how much $ is said deals and so called bs assistance.

It also becomes a conundrum for me as it’s not pure capitalism otherwise the deal would be supplier to buyer free of any regulation. More importantly, when all I see is it killing both more uks and rooskies (both mostly innocent lives) I will relax my stance on pure capitalism in a strict scenario.

When it gets so flipping complicated I often rely on my gut which is telling me over and over stay the F out of it.

(09-21-2022 04:18 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 03:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:52 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  In an address to the nation on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization has been decreed, making Russian citizens currently in reserve subject to conscription. The announcement comes after the self-declared Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR), and eastern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia announced plans to hold votes on joining Russia. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called the referendum an "escalation in Putin's war." Keep it here for the latest on-the-ground updates.

Seems to me this is not a war the U.S. should be involved in anyway. Just sayin what I've said since day 1. If I turn against my original opinion and end up disagreeing with it I'll be more than happy to admit.

Honestly, I dont care about it any further than there is simply too much of a chance Putin goes after NATO nations (most likely the Baltic states) after he digests Ukraine---which would draw US servicemen directly into a war. Maybe he means the stuff about NATO---maybe he doesnt. But he's stated before that he believed certain areas should be Russian satellite states and then he used his military to try and get what he wanted (both in Georgia and Ukraine). I mean---its not like that kind of expansionist talk by your neighbor president should be taken lightly. You dont see NATO presidents regularly talking about invading Russia or its puppet states do you? In fact---pretty much everywhere you have a leader mouthing off like Putin you either have a war or at the minimum---a huge arms build up (N-S Korea, China-Taiwan, India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab nations, etc).

That said---if we were not part of NATO, Id be fine with staying out of it---though Id also have zero issues with selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself with. Thats just good old fashioned capitalism.

When I saw that the some of these arms deals would be paid back and are basically similar to some of our deals with GB in WWII that they finally paid back in full from WWII in 2020 I relaxed my stance a bit. I must say I have been lazy to look into the details to see how much $ is said deals and so called bs assistance.

It also becomes a conundrum for me as it’s not pure capitalism otherwise the deal would be supplier to buyer free of any regulation. More importantly, when all I see is it killing both more uks and rooskies (both mostly innocent lives) I will relax my stance on pure capitalism in a strict scenario.

When it gets so flipping complicated I often rely on my gut which is telling me over and over stay the F out of it.

100% sure none of this money is ever being paid back. None of the money we transferred to Ukraines central bank to keep their currency afloat will be returned either. It never is.

We’re trillions in debt and getting cash advances on our credit card to give it known to known money laundering crooks with nothing in writing, no stipulations, and no accountability. We’re so smart.

I just saw today 1/4 billion dollars was stolen from the freakin free school lunch program. If there is an inept way to manage things, we are the masters.

(09-21-2022 04:18 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 03:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:52 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  In an address to the nation on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization has been decreed, making Russian citizens currently in reserve subject to conscription. The announcement comes after the self-declared Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR), and eastern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia announced plans to hold votes on joining Russia. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called the referendum an "escalation in Putin's war." Keep it here for the latest on-the-ground updates.

Seems to me this is not a war the U.S. should be involved in anyway. Just sayin what I've said since day 1. If I turn against my original opinion and end up disagreeing with it I'll be more than happy to admit.

Honestly, I dont care about it any further than there is simply too much of a chance Putin goes after NATO nations (most likely the Baltic states) after he digests Ukraine---which would draw US servicemen directly into a war. Maybe he means the stuff about NATO---maybe he doesnt. But he's stated before that he believed certain areas should be Russian satellite states and then he used his military to try and get what he wanted (both in Georgia and Ukraine). I mean---its not like that kind of expansionist talk by your neighbor president should be taken lightly. You dont see NATO presidents regularly talking about invading Russia or its puppet states do you? In fact---pretty much everywhere you have a leader mouthing off like Putin you either have a war or at the minimum---a huge arms build up (N-S Korea, China-Taiwan, India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab nations, etc).

That said---if we were not part of NATO, Id be fine with staying out of it---though Id also have zero issues with selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself with. Thats just good old fashioned capitalism.

When I saw that the some of these arms deals would be paid back and are basically similar to some of our deals with GB in WWII that they finally paid back in full from WWII in 2020 I relaxed my stance a bit. I must say I have been lazy to look into the details to see how much $ is said deals and so called bs assistance.

It also becomes a conundrum for me as it’s not pure capitalism otherwise the deal would be supplier to buyer free of any regulation. More importantly, when all I see is it killing both more uks and rooskies (both mostly innocent lives) I will relax my stance on pure capitalism in a strict scenario.

When it gets so flipping complicated I often rely on my gut which is telling me over and over stay the F out of it.

Frankly, I'll be pleased if we are repaid---but Im fine if we are not. I view the cost more like I would view an insurance policy or preventative maintenance on my car. I dont think my home is going to burn down or flood this year---but I still paid for the fire and flood policies on my home. I have no reason to think my transmission will fail early---but I still had the "lifetime" fluid changed at 60K miles simply because I know keeping fresh fluid in the transmission gives me a better chance of getting more life from the vehicle. Thats the way I view the Ukrainian aid--as an insurance policy against a possible NATO conflict with Russia (and I think a Russian attack on the NATO Baltic states was waaay more likely than my home burning down). If the Ukrainians stop Putin, he can never move on to attacking NATO. Heck---even if the Ukrainians eventually have to give into Russia----they have already degraded Russian conventional capabilities so much that the Russia probably cant realistically attack NATO anymore. Thus, I can honestly say our investment in the Ukrainian "insurance policy" has already paid off to a significant extent.

What a monumental waste of $$$ that we don't have.

We should have stayed completely out of it. Not our business.

Not our organ grinder, not our monkeys.

(09-21-2022 07:26 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  What a monumental waste of $$$ that we don't have.

We should have stayed completely out of it. Not our business.

But, even in this forum, you have those who continually cheer on every war the US starts as some kind of essential fight for our own survival and point to all the great news it really is.

They don’t care what the cost is. They don’t care if we have the money. The only care about carrying out a globalist agenda based in hypotheticals. Sure, let’s spend all of our money not only burning our bridges, but burning the rest of the worlds too. It’s not gonna be pretty when it stops working because more and more people hate us every day for the crap we go around pulling on people.

The flight tracker out of Russia has gone bonkers.



Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(09-21-2022 08:19 PM)maximus Wrote:  The flight tracker out of Russia has gone bonkers.

Understandable but also sad. The ones who can afford tickets, the ones who have connections to leave, are the ones who might make the most difference. It's not the Russian living in a rural Village who up to this point has been fighting Putin's unjust War. It's the educated and urban Russians with enough understanding and money to leave. It's too bad. By person... that's person by person, there's less pressure on Putin. They're abandoning a just cause, yep I understand ..a dangerous cause, an uncomfortable cause, but still the right one.

I thought the whole world was blocking any flights from Russian airlines and that all foreign airlines pulled out because of sanctions? That’s what was being claimed.

Guess that wasn’t true.

(09-21-2022 09:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  I thought the whole world was blocking any flights from Russian airlines and that all foreign airlines pulled out because of sanctions? That’s what was being claimed.

Guess that wasn’t true.

Nope. All the best vacation spots are still available. Even as we speak, Im sure Russian deserters fleeing their patriotic duty are whopping it up in the rocking party districts of Tajikistan and N Korea.

(09-21-2022 09:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  I thought the whole world was blocking any flights from Russian airlines and that all foreign airlines pulled out because of sanctions? That’s what was being claimed.

Guess that wasn’t true.

they make it up as they go. the lies are hard to remember.

(09-22-2022 07:07 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 09:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  I thought the whole world was blocking any flights from Russian airlines and that all foreign airlines pulled out because of sanctions? That’s what was being claimed.

Guess that wasn’t true.

they make it up as they go. the lies are hard to remember.

They don’t have to remember because few of us do either.

Funny thing is, the types that would run away are exactly the types most people on here hate in America.

Those spoiled rich kids and soy boys would only be in the way anyway.

But yeah, it’s probably happening—just like millions of Americans were moving to Canada if Trump won…. If you believe the lib rag media, anything can be true. After all, the exact same headline was everywhere, so there’s your proof.

(09-21-2022 03:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:52 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  In an address to the nation on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization has been decreed, making Russian citizens currently in reserve subject to conscription. The announcement comes after the self-declared Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republics (LPR), and eastern Ukrainian regions of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia announced plans to hold votes on joining Russia. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg called the referendum an "escalation in Putin's war." Keep it here for the latest on-the-ground updates.

Seems to me this is not a war the U.S. should be involved in anyway. Just sayin what I've said since day 1. If I turn against my original opinion and end up disagreeing with it I'll be more than happy to admit.

Honestly, I dont care about it any further than there is simply too much of a chance Putin goes after NATO nations (most likely the Baltic states) after he digests Ukraine---which would draw US servicemen directly into a war. Maybe he means the stuff about NATO---maybe he doesnt. But he's stated before that he believed certain areas should be Russian satellite states and then he used his military to try and get what he wanted (both in Georgia and Ukraine). I mean---its not like that kind of expansionist talk by your neighbor president should be taken lightly. You dont see NATO presidents regularly talking about invading Russia or its puppet states do you? In fact---pretty much everywhere you have a leader mouthing off like Putin you either have a war or at the minimum---a huge arms build up (N-S Korea, China-Taiwan, India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab nations, etc).

That said---if we were not part of NATO, Id be fine with staying out of it---though Id also have zero issues with selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself with. Thats just good old fashioned capitalism.

Selling? Capitalism? You call our government GIVING Ukraine tens of BILLIONS of dollars "Capitalism"? You can't make this crap up. Neocons here have lost their damn minds.

(09-22-2022 07:34 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

As usual l. Peterson hits the nail on the head. Russia is not going to lose and Ukraine is not going to win. It's fantasy to believe otherwise. Such thinking might walk the world in a nuclear WWIII. Then everyone loses

(09-21-2022 02:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  There is zero guarantee that Russia invades any other countries beyond Ukraine if they conquer it.

Except that some here think that Putin's real motivation is to create a buffer between Russia and NATO. Now he needs to conquer more. Russia annexing Ukraine, which has been their intent since Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a sovereign but as historically part of Russia, simply puts Poland on their border. A NATO country. Now they have Poland and Finland on their border.

(09-22-2022 09:03 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  There is zero guarantee that Russia invades any other countries beyond Ukraine if they conquer it.

Except that some here think that Putin's real motivation is to create a buffer between Russia and NATO. Now he needs to conquer more. Russia annexing Ukraine, which has been their intent since Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a sovereign but as historically part of Russia, simply puts Poland on their border. A NATO country. Now they have Poland and Finland on their border.

And let me be clear, Putin invaded Ukraine because he thought he could get away with it. The same reason he has stolen Millions, sorry billions, from the Russian people. The same reason he's enriched his friends in the same fashion. The same reason he is murdered people across the globe. And the same reason he has murdered his political enemies in Russia, you know all those accidents.

(09-22-2022 09:03 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  There is zero guarantee that Russia invades any other countries beyond Ukraine if they conquer it.

Except that some here think that Putin's real motivation is to create a buffer between Russia and NATO. Now he needs to conquer more. Russia annexing Ukraine, which has been their intent since Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a sovereign but as historically part of Russia, simply puts Poland on their border. A NATO country. Now they have Poland and Finland on their border.

There's a big hole in this logic though. Today's world isn't the same as the world was when Stalin was in power. If he wants his buffer with NATO, Ukraine was the answer to that. Whether Putin would have been satiated by diplomatic commitments to not admit Ukraine into NATO or he slowly gobbled up Ukraine thru annexations - same outcome because Putin has his buffer.

If Putin's goal was to have a buffer, then the further west he goes will put him closer to NATO. He wants distance between NATO and Moscow - except it's not the 60s, 70s or even the 80s anymore. Military Tech is way more sophisticated so the distance from his capitol argument doesn't apply like it did back then so he'd need a lot more territory than the Soviets did for their buffer.

(09-22-2022 09:58 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-22-2022 09:03 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 02:12 PM)miko33 Wrote:  There is zero guarantee that Russia invades any other countries beyond Ukraine if they conquer it.

Except that some here think that Putin's real motivation is to create a buffer between Russia and NATO. Now he needs to conquer more. Russia annexing Ukraine, which has been their intent since Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine as a sovereign but as historically part of Russia, simply puts Poland on their border. A NATO country. Now they have Poland and Finland on their border.

There's a big hole in this logic though. Today's world isn't the same as the world was when Stalin was in power. If he wants his buffer with NATO, Ukraine was the answer to that. Whether Putin would have been satiated by diplomatic commitments to not admit Ukraine into NATO or he slowly gobbled up Ukraine thru annexations - same outcome because Putin has his buffer.

If Putin's goal was to have a buffer, then the further west he goes will put him closer to NATO. He wants distance between NATO and Moscow - except it's not the 60s, 70s or even the 80s anymore. Military Tech is way more sophisticated so the distance from his capitol argument doesn't apply like it did back then so he'd need a lot more territory than the Soviets did for their buffer.

The EU wants resources from UKraine plus its the money laudering center of the world. Putins worries about the prog filth globalists at his border are well warranted. it really doesnt have shite to do with Nato. Nato is the fake excuse.

How would the US react if China signed a military protection agreement with Mexico under the guise of controlling its resources.

People are stupid