The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-10-2018 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 07:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Johnson hurt ODU from the outside much worse than inside because he had a slow big guy trying to guard him on the perimeter. Same with Nick King. But, when the put the smaller, more athletic Carver (prolly 6-5 220) in; both had much more difficulties scoring. Besides, there are many very good post up players in college basketball and even less of them play "power forward." The ones that can do both are great players that likely aren't playing too many games vs. CUSA schools.

You don't have to shoot a bunch of 3s to play BJ (or others) at the 4. It spreads out the court for other things as well. And a player that only shoots 3 wasn't one of the best players on the team as a true freshman.

"One of the best players on the team as a true freshman" (your comment), and "his best young 3 point shooter" (my comment) are not one and the same thing Giles. I didn't even remotely make the point that you are mysteriously replying to.

Justin Johnson just became a significant 3 point shooter this season. He was also a very good player in the years prior to this one. During Johnson's Sophomore and Junior years he was mostly guarded by one of ODU's all time best defenders at the 4 position (Denzel Taylor), who also happens to match up physically better with Johnson than BJ ever could. Over the prior 2 seasons Johnson scored a total of 65 points against ODU over 5 games. Only 12 of those points were scored on 3 point shots - less than (1) 3 pointer per game. If he could score that many against Denzel inside then I'm sure he would have fared much better with BJ guarding him as the opposing 4, and that was my original point about BJ guarding bigger, stronger 4's like Johnson inside. Can't believe that you would feel differently about that hypothetical match-up. Do you honestly think BJ could cover a man like Johnson inside as well or better than Denzel?

You so desperately want Jones to turn ODU into Villanova. Guess what! So does everyone else. Unfortunately, that old saying about having to dance with the girl you brought with you comes to mind. From observation, Jeff is more of a slow dance kind of guy. Villanova is more rock and roll. Jeff will be sitting the dance out till the next slow song starts because that is who he is. He needs a dance partner (players) that dance to his music, not Villanova's.

EDIT: Another thing ... A 4 player that can adequately defend another good sized 4 player inside doesn't have to be "a slow big guy". I know that description fits your argument best, but that's all it does. There is a wide group of players in between the two groups that you seem to want to limit things to with Group (A) being to play a natural small forward (a 3) at the 4 position because he can shoot 3's better, and Group (B) being a "slow big guy" at the 4 position that plays solely inside offensively. Think more of guys like Valdas, Keyon Carter, Arnaud Dahi, etc. as being the kind of guys that ODU wants as a 4 player, at least while Jeff is coaching. I'm optimistic that the freshman coming in from GA might be a good fit at the 4 if he can get learn the system soon enough to play for Jeff this season. Who knows?

I don't really feel like getting into this for the 1000th time. I agree to disagree. I will just say we don't need to be like Villanova. The game has changed to where you cannot play primarily back to the basket guys next to each other (except rare instances). Whatever you do on offense is typically offset with how your big guys are abused on defense due to forcing them to play in space. If your 4 is a big guy that is athletic and can shoot, then that is a good advantage to have (and if he's worth a ****, he's probably going to a big school).

The team would not get abused defensively with BJ at the 4. It may even improve with the ability to switch 1 through 4.

If you don't feel like getting into this for the 1000th time then you should stop bringing it up.

Everyone already knows that the game has changed. You're not seeing anything that the rest of us aren't. Unfortunately, Jeff for the most part hasn't changed his game accordingly. Because of that, you shouldn't keep trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

AJ Lawson transferring from North Texas.

This is getting out of hand.

(04-10-2018 02:42 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 07:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Johnson hurt ODU from the outside much worse than inside because he had a slow big guy trying to guard him on the perimeter. Same with Nick King. But, when the put the smaller, more athletic Carver (prolly 6-5 220) in; both had much more difficulties scoring. Besides, there are many very good post up players in college basketball and even less of them play "power forward." The ones that can do both are great players that likely aren't playing too many games vs. CUSA schools.

You don't have to shoot a bunch of 3s to play BJ (or others) at the 4. It spreads out the court for other things as well. And a player that only shoots 3 wasn't one of the best players on the team as a true freshman.

"One of the best players on the team as a true freshman" (your comment), and "his best young 3 point shooter" (my comment) are not one and the same thing Giles. I didn't even remotely make the point that you are mysteriously replying to.

Justin Johnson just became a significant 3 point shooter this season. He was also a very good player in the years prior to this one. During Johnson's Sophomore and Junior years he was mostly guarded by one of ODU's all time best defenders at the 4 position (Denzel Taylor), who also happens to match up physically better with Johnson than BJ ever could. Over the prior 2 seasons Johnson scored a total of 65 points against ODU over 5 games. Only 12 of those points were scored on 3 point shots - less than (1) 3 pointer per game. If he could score that many against Denzel inside then I'm sure he would have fared much better with BJ guarding him as the opposing 4, and that was my original point about BJ guarding bigger, stronger 4's like Johnson inside. Can't believe that you would feel differently about that hypothetical match-up. Do you honestly think BJ could cover a man like Johnson inside as well or better than Denzel?

You so desperately want Jones to turn ODU into Villanova. Guess what! So does everyone else. Unfortunately, that old saying about having to dance with the girl you brought with you comes to mind. From observation, Jeff is more of a slow dance kind of guy. Villanova is more rock and roll. Jeff will be sitting the dance out till the next slow song starts because that is who he is. He needs a dance partner (players) that dance to his music, not Villanova's.

EDIT: Another thing ... A 4 player that can adequately defend another good sized 4 player inside doesn't have to be "a slow big guy". I know that description fits your argument best, but that's all it does. There is a wide group of players in between the two groups that you seem to want to limit things to with Group (A) being to play a natural small forward (a 3) at the 4 position because he can shoot 3's better, and Group (B) being a "slow big guy" at the 4 position that plays solely inside offensively. Think more of guys like Valdas, Keyon Carter, Arnaud Dahi, etc. as being the kind of guys that ODU wants as a 4 player, at least while Jeff is coaching. I'm optimistic that the freshman coming in from GA might be a good fit at the 4 if he can get learn the system soon enough to play for Jeff this season. Who knows?

I don't really feel like getting into this for the 1000th time. I agree to disagree. I will just say we don't need to be like Villanova. The game has changed to where you cannot play primarily back to the basket guys next to each other (except rare instances). Whatever you do on offense is typically offset with how your big guys are abused on defense due to forcing them to play in space. If your 4 is a big guy that is athletic and can shoot, then that is a good advantage to have (and if he's worth a ****, he's probably going to a big school).

The team would not get abused defensively with BJ at the 4. It may even improve with the ability to switch 1 through 4.

If you don't feel like getting into this for the 1000th time then you should stop bringing it up.

Everyone already knows that the game has changed. You're not seeing anything that the rest of us aren't. Unfortunately, Jeff for the most part hasn't changed his game accordingly. Because of that, you shouldn't keep trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

I brought up possible lineup configerations for next year. You felt compelled to get argue over it again. Stith played some 4 last year, I expect it to happen more next year.

(04-10-2018 03:01 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  AJ Lawson transferring from North Texas.

This is getting out of hand.

Its only going to get worse. There is some movement on allowing guys to transfer without sitting out if they have a certain GPA.

(04-10-2018 03:02 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I brought up possible lineup configerations for next year. You felt compelled to get argue over it again. Stith played some 4 last year, I expect it to happen more next year.

Giving counter points as to why it isn't in ODU's best interest to pencil in BJ as the team's 4 isn't arguing Giles. You shouldn't expect those other points not to be given whenever you bring it up in conversation.

I don't think that anyone will be surprised to see BJ play a minute or two here or there against certain teams and in certain situations at the 4. A hypothetical example of that would be if ODU had a 5 point lead and the ball with a minute to go. The expectation is that the opponent will go for the steal and foul if they don't get it so you want your best ball handlers and foul shooters in the lineup. In the broader scheme of things if he is playing the 4 for more than a choice few situations then it will likely be problematic. For the past 5 seasons Jeff has had Denzel and Brandan playing the 4 position. Neither of them were converted shooting guards (2), or converted small forwards (3) trying to fill in at the power forward (4). I believe BJ was a (2) at UVA. Not sure if he has played much or any at the (2) at ODU.

To help this this thread back on track about Hueitt leaving, I am super bummed about his decision. I don't know about his work ethic, attitude, etc but he honestly was my favorite player with Godwin a close 2nd. That may sound stupid since they hardly got to play but I felt a lot of excitement when they got in the game. They both created a buzz in the crowd that I haven't seen from a freshman in a long time. I felt like Hueitt was almost electric with his range and presence on the court. Every team looked like they were gearing to stop him with his limited experience. I understand Haynes had a good year and I applaud him for his work ethic and his breakout year but I was hoping deep down that Jones would find about 8-10 minutes per game for Hueitt and Godwin and by tournament we would be a better team ( at least deeper). When you are playing one and done it's tough to watch a player struggle the entire game and that's basically what we were left doing when Haynes, BJ, and even Caver were having a tough time. Would it have made a difference? Maybe not, maybe our overall record would have been worse, but I would guess Hueitt would still be around if he could have gobbled up some PT. I hate to see him go. He was fun to watch.

(04-10-2018 06:04 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  I hate to see him go. He was fun to watch.

+1.

MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

In all seriousness, how would we know? The kid hardly saw the court and was a true freshman. Not saying he is the next Curry, but he has the undeveloped talent and potential to have a chance. He could certainly have been the next Trey Freeman-like scorer. I have a feeling we haven't heard the last from MHJ.

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

We may not know, but the coaches watched MHJ play every day. In terms of size, Huiett is much skinnier than what Curry was in college. (Im not saying MHJ didnt play because of this).

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree. MHJ Had a crazy long wingspan, something like 6'8". I can't remember exactly but remember reading about it early on. Plus look at Richmond's backcourt. That Gilyard freshman looks like a midget out there and their two guard (Fore?) was not much bigger. I don't buy the size thing for a guard. Sure, he needed to get stronger but I also remember in an interview early in the season he said he had added 15 pounds since coming to ODU. He was going to get bigger and stronger.

(04-11-2018 07:06 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree. MHJ Had a crazy long wingspan, something like 6'8". I can't remember exactly but remember reading about it early on. Plus look at Richmond's backcourt. That Gilyard freshman looks like a midget out there and their two guard (Fore?) was not much bigger. I don't buy the size thing for a guard. Sure, he needed to get stronger but I also remember in an interview early in the season he said he had added 15 pounds since coming to ODU. He was going to get bigger and stronger.

I worry more about his lack of diversity in his overall game than I do his size.

(04-11-2018 09:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 07:06 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree. MHJ Had a crazy long wingspan, something like 6'8". I can't remember exactly but remember reading about it early on. Plus look at Richmond's backcourt. That Gilyard freshman looks like a midget out there and their two guard (Fore?) was not much bigger. I don't buy the size thing for a guard. Sure, he needed to get stronger but I also remember in an interview early in the season he said he had added 15 pounds since coming to ODU. He was going to get bigger and stronger.

I worry more about his lack of diversity in his overall game than I do his size.

Then i think you will really like Jason Wade's game. I have seen him play several games. Very strong handle, good size, very good passer, unselfish, takes it strong to the basket. He can shoot the three as well but is not going to have the pure stroke that Godwin or Hueitt have. I understand all of this is high school but I think he will come in and earn minutes immediately.

(04-11-2018 12:51 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 09:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 07:06 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree. MHJ Had a crazy long wingspan, something like 6'8". I can't remember exactly but remember reading about it early on. Plus look at Richmond's backcourt. That Gilyard freshman looks like a midget out there and their two guard (Fore?) was not much bigger. I don't buy the size thing for a guard. Sure, he needed to get stronger but I also remember in an interview early in the season he said he had added 15 pounds since coming to ODU. He was going to get bigger and stronger.

I worry more about his lack of diversity in his overall game than I do his size.

Then i think you will really like Jason Wade's game. I have seen him play several games. Very strong handle, good size, very good passer, unselfish, takes it strong to the basket. He can shoot the three as well but is not going to have the pure stroke that Godwin or Hueitt have. I understand all of this is high school but I think he will come in and earn minutes immediately.

Aside from the "He can shoot the three as well" comment, it sounds very much like a description of former ODU point guard Keenan Palmore.

I hope Wade works out well for ODU, that he remains on the team for more than just a season or two, and that he gets ample opportunity to show his followers what he can do during the games. I always enjoyed watching his dad (Ronnie) play.

(04-11-2018 12:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 12:51 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 09:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 07:06 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I agree. MHJ Had a crazy long wingspan, something like 6'8". I can't remember exactly but remember reading about it early on. Plus look at Richmond's backcourt. That Gilyard freshman looks like a midget out there and their two guard (Fore?) was not much bigger. I don't buy the size thing for a guard. Sure, he needed to get stronger but I also remember in an interview early in the season he said he had added 15 pounds since coming to ODU. He was going to get bigger and stronger.

I worry more about his lack of diversity in his overall game than I do his size.

Then i think you will really like Jason Wade's game. I have seen him play several games. Very strong handle, good size, very good passer, unselfish, takes it strong to the basket. He can shoot the three as well but is not going to have the pure stroke that Godwin or Hueitt have. I understand all of this is high school but I think he will come in and earn minutes immediately.

Aside from the "He can shoot the three as well" comment, it sounds very much like a description of former ODU point guard Keenan Palmore.

I hope Wade works out well for ODU, that he remains on the team for more than just a season or two, and that he gets ample opportunity to show his followers what he can do during the games. I always enjoyed watching his dad (Ronnie) play.

Wade has a much better looking stroke than Palmore. He can shoot it deep now. I would say he is going to be a much better three point threat than Palmore could have ever been. Wade is a big kid as well, 6'4" range and he is not skinny.

(04-10-2018 10:06 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

In all seriousness, how would we know? The kid hardly saw the court and was a true freshman. Not saying he is the next Curry, but he has the undeveloped talent and potential to have a chance. He could certainly have been the next Trey Freeman-like scorer. I have a feeling we haven't heard the last from MHJ.

That’s fair. From the limited minutes I saw him play, he is a talented shooter - but he didn’t look that fast to me and he didn’t seem that strong (hence my size comment). But you’re right, we didn’t see enough to tell. Where he lands will be telling re: how he is perceived by other programs.

I trust (perhaps falsely) that the coaches know his strengths/weaknesses/game well - which is why he didn’t play. And why Godwin was chosen over MHJ.

(04-10-2018 10:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 09:22 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 08:09 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  MJH is an exciting player, but he needs to put on at least 15 lbs. He is not big enough to hold his own defensively at the two spot. Game is too physical at our level.

Tell that to Steph Curry.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

MHJ is no Steph Curry. Apples and oranges. Lack of size can be made up for with other talents. MHJ doesn’t have the same talents as Steph to make up for his lack of size.

He doesn't need to be Steph Curry to make ODU better, but if his ability to consistently get and make shots and rebound exceptionally well in his limited minutes didn't convince you that he was capable of competing as a slim freshman, I thought reminding you that one of the best shooting guards to ever play the game was very undersized might help.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

No, didn’t help at all. But if you had pointed out Spud Webb...

I watched all of his minutes in every game he played. His clear strength is his shooting ability.