PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

(09-24-2013 01:50 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

Yes and No...

Yes, what happened at PSU was completely disgusting and people are going to jail for it. But the difference is, this was criminal activity by those that happened to coaches and school admin.

(09-24-2013 01:52 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:50 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

Yes and No...

Yes, what happened at PSU was completely disgusting and people are going to jail for it. But the difference is, this was criminal activity by those that happened to coaches and school admin.

Even if you think it was appropriate for the problems at Penn St. (I think the feds should be dealing with it, not the NCAA), the death penalty would have penalized the whole Big 10, not just Penn St. And that would not be appropriate.

(09-24-2013 01:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:52 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:50 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

Yes and No...

Yes, what happened at PSU was completely disgusting and people are going to jail for it. But the difference is, this was criminal activity by those that happened to coaches and school admin.

Even if you think it was appropriate for the problems at Penn St. (I think the feds should be dealing with it, not the NCAA), the death penalty would have penalized the whole Big 10, not just Penn St. And that would not be appropriate.

Agree 100%. I always felt that the FEDs should've been the ones that penalized PSU.

(09-24-2013 01:03 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I always felt that the NCAA rushed to sanction PSU. And now they're restoring schollies way too early. What a clusterf*ck the NCAA has created. People don't know what can, or will, develop over the course of the perjury/obstruction of justice trials, or the DOE investigation.

What the NCAA should've done was let everything from the criminal trials and DOE investigation to conclude. Piece together a stronger case against PSU and then sanction PSU in a joint presser alongside the DOE.

Now the NCAA is losing even more credibility. And it's their own fault for rushing to sanctions because the court of public opinion wanted sanctions.

They rushed to penalties and now they are rushing to reduce them. Emmert said they were not reduced because the penalties were too harsh. The fact that he said that indicates that is exactly why they are reducing them (or at least, if not too harsh, they feel they were punishing the wrong people).

I'm sorry, so the argument is that a penalty for PSU would have hurt the B10 and that, in and of itself, isn't fair? That is the equivalent of saying pedophile with a family shouldn't go to jail because it would unfairly impact his wife and/or children...

(09-24-2013 02:04 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  I'm sorry, so the argument is that a penalty for PSU would have hurt the B10 and that, in and of itself, isn't fair? That is the equivalent of saying pedophile with a family shouldn't go to jail because it would unfairly impact his wife and/or children...

Absolutely. All NCAA penalties, for the entire history of the NCAA, have hurt other entities than the ones that committed the infractions. The argument is ludicrous, unless one is arguing schools should never get penalized for anything.

PSU shouldn't have received death penalty, it needed the death penalty. And while I absolutely agree that the NCAA failed by rushing in without its own thorough investigation in order to satisfy the 24 hr news cycle, nothing that has been done that will actually change the culture that actually led to the problems there. The action today only reinforces it. The NCAA has lost any remaining credibility, if it had any left to begin with.

I believe the B1G was discussing kicking PSU out.

(09-24-2013 01:43 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Absolutely... Using the Freeh Report was the NCAA's biggest mistake. But on the other hand, working w/ the Department of Education is a different story. I don't see why the NCAA and DOE couldn't have worked together to punish PSU. If the DOE would've suggested to the NCAA that PSU deserves a 4 year Death Penalty in all sports, I would've felt it was fair.

I think the DoE would have pursued a bigger matter that would have gone after more than just PSU: schools running a side-business of running camps and seminars and making revenue through outside facility usage. Especially at places of higher learning, and even more so at ones publicly funded and subsidized (even if PSU is only partially public); what is the purpose and benefit of it?

It's its own industry at certain institutions. If there is a silver-lining to this matter, it's that things at Penn State were so incestuous between Second Mile, the football program, and senior leadership that it was eventually caught and exposed to the extent in which it had. Still, where beyond the football program this may have been known...

(09-24-2013 02:17 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 02:04 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  I'm sorry, so the argument is that a penalty for PSU would have hurt the B10 and that, in and of itself, isn't fair? That is the equivalent of saying pedophile with a family shouldn't go to jail because it would unfairly impact his wife and/or children...

Absolutely. All NCAA penalties, for the entire history of the NCAA, have hurt other entities than the ones that committed the infractions. The argument is ludicrous, unless one is arguing schools should never get penalized for anything.

PSU shouldn't have received death penalty, it needed the death penalty. And while I absolutely agree that the NCAA failed by rushing in without its own thorough investigation in order to satisfy the 24 hr news cycle, nothing that has been done that will actually change the culture that actually led to the problems there. The action today only reinforces it. The NCAA has lost any remaining credibility, if it had any left to begin with.

The SMU death penalty hastened the end of the SWC. It hurt all 8 of the other programs. Penalties shouldn't punish institutions that had nothing to do with the issue. They should be designed more narrowly.

(09-24-2013 01:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:52 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:50 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

Yes and No...

Yes, what happened at PSU was completely disgusting and people are going to jail for it. But the difference is, this was criminal activity by those that happened to coaches and school admin.

Even if you think it was appropriate for the problems at Penn St. (I think the feds should be dealing with it, not the NCAA), the death penalty would have penalized the whole Big 10, not just Penn St. And that would not be appropriate.

Agree 100%. I always felt that the FEDs should've been the ones that penalized PSU.

And IMO the feds should have come onto the campus in force for an immediate investigation. And if the allegations proved true, Penn State's accreditation should have been pulled, the campus demolished, anyone associated with the scandal thrown in jail as a child molester or accessory, and the ground salted so that nothing ever grew there again...

That would serve as a dire warning to anyone else who believed they could get away with such actions in the future...

I wonder if the DOE is waiting for the obstruction of justice/perjury trial to conclude before they finish their investigation. They've been very quiet throughout their investigation.

(09-24-2013 04:17 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I wonder if the DOE is waiting for the obstruction of justice/perjury trial to conclude before they finish their investigation. They've been very quiet throughout their investigation.

After all this time, I doubt the DOE does anything significant. A hand slap, and then business as usual is my suspicion...

(09-24-2013 11:31 AM)Orangemen Wrote:  Shameful.....

What did the NCAA think Penn State was going to do, continue to molest kids?

Of course they cleaned up their act. So what? The punishment was about what was done in the past, and it wasn't severe enough to begin with.

(09-24-2013 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  OSU staff lied about actual NCAA violations. Huge difference there.

Yeah, illegal tattoos are so much worse that child-rape.

(09-24-2013 03:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:56 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:52 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:50 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  PSU should have gotten the Death Penalty. This was alot worse than anything SMU did.

Yes and No...

Yes, what happened at PSU was completely disgusting and people are going to jail for it. But the difference is, this was criminal activity by those that happened to coaches and school admin.

Even if you think it was appropriate for the problems at Penn St. (I think the feds should be dealing with it, not the NCAA), the death penalty would have penalized the whole Big 10, not just Penn St. And that would not be appropriate.

Agree 100%. I always felt that the FEDs should've been the ones that penalized PSU.

And IMO the feds should have come onto the campus in force for an immediate investigation. And if the allegations proved true, Penn State's accreditation should have been pulled, the campus demolished, anyone associated with the scandal thrown in jail as a child molester or accessory, and the ground salted so that nothing ever grew there again...

That would serve as a dire warning to anyone else who believed they could get away with such actions in the future...

And WVU just signed up to play a home-and-home with us evil folk! I'm sure you let your administrators know your displeasure.

That's all right. The improvement Penn State has made over the last 18 months has been recognized. I honestly didn't care whether the sanctions were reduced in conjunction with the recognition, I just wanted the recognition.

Kick and scream all you want, PSU will not wear a scarlet letter forever.

WSJ weighs in:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...65642.html

Their conclusion if you don't want to read:
NCAA is a muddled mess that can't make up its mind.

at least they learned their lesson and such tough actions by the ncaa will prevent any school from commiting such autracities in the future.. ridiculous

(09-24-2013 09:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  at least they learned their lesson and such tough actions by the ncaa will prevent any school from commiting such autracities in the future.. ridiculous

Yes, they clearly demonstrated what will happen with their overwhelmingly penalties on Montana who covered up, not one repeat child molester, but multiple rapists who actually played for their team.

(09-24-2013 05:04 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 12:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  OSU staff lied about actual NCAA violations. Huge difference there.

Yeah, illegal tattoos are so much worse that child-rape.

You don't understand the quote.

OSU--free tattoos and benefits
USC--free money and agents running amuck
UNC--fake classes for dumb athletes

NCAA jurisdiction...NCAA penalties


PSU--administrative failure to protect children

USA laws...USA legal penalties (jail, etc.)

Baylor didn't get sanctioned for a murdered player...ND didn't get sanctioned for poor judgment on a windy day...

The NCAA should have never been involved. Legal experts said this 14 months ago...brave journalists wrote this 14 months ago...