(09-24-2013 12:45 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  Plain and simple... the 4 bball schools do not get in every year, and very rarely will any other school get in

why because you said so? You are so butthurt about the AAC it's not funny. 3 of the last 5 years they've either gotten 4 teams in or would have if UConn hadn't been on probation. But that doesn't count to you. And that doesn't even take into account a program like UCF, who if the AAC had been around probably would have made the tourney in at least 1 of the seasons but because they were relegated to CSUCK, they didn't make the tourney.

(09-24-2013 12:45 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  Plain and simple... the 4 bball schools do not get in every year, and very rarely will any other school get in

Disagree. 3 will be a bad year for the AAC, 4 will probably be the norm, and 5 is possible in good years. I could also see exceptionally bad years with 2 and exceptionally good years with 6.

I think CUSA will see 1 in bad years, 2 in normal years, and 3 in exceptionally good years. CUSA would really benefit for putting scheduling requirements in place designed to raise the RPI of the league as a whole. It worked for the A10 and CUSA needs to do the same if it wants to be respected as a basketball conference.

Having teams like NT and ECU with 4+ DII games is a joke.

(09-24-2013 12:13 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 12:45 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  Plain and simple... the 4 bball schools do not get in every year, and very rarely will any other school get in

Disagree. 3 will be a bad year for the AAC, 4 will probably be the norm, and 5 is possible in good years. I could also see exceptionally bad years with 2 and exceptionally good years with 6.

I think CUSA will see 1 in bad years, 2 in normal years, and 3 in exceptionally good years. CUSA would really benefit for putting scheduling requirements in place designed to raise the RPI of the league as a whole. It worked for the A10 and CUSA needs to do the same if it wants to be respected as a basketball conference.

Having teams like NT and ECU with 4+ DII games is a joke.

I agree with you in general on the AAC.

CUSA I think it's 1-2 in normal years. I think it'll in 10 years be 5 with 1 and 5 with 2- at the best case scenario.

In this debate C_USA has one glaring problem that cannot be overlooked: if a C-USA team gets too good, they can be plucked by the AAC. And unlike prior expansion that focused on expanding markets, I think if that happens it will be done smartly and emphasize successful teams and/or look for teams within the footprint to consolidate an already spread out league. To me that means teams that have had past success but completely forgotten about due to geography or market size, come into play. If WKU, Charlotte, or LA Tech, teams that have had basketball success in the past get hot, in football or basketball, they could be gone. Old Dominion is even more of a flight risk if they get hot because the AAC might keep an eye on VCU and Wichita St and need a 3rd team to balance it out (due to Navy) and ODU becomes a serious flight risk if they get good.

This CUSA is your biggest problem.

great point on C-USA there. I suppose AAC could have the same situation sometime but I'd say it's less likely.

I think that was a mistake CUSA did. They overexpanded so much, so lets say a SBC team emerges. Probably won't want to go up to 16 teams to grab them. Really only way for CUSA to expand now is if they're raided.

(09-24-2013 01:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  In this debate C_USA has one glaring problem that cannot be overlooked: if a C-USA team gets too good, they can be plucked by the AAC. And unlike prior expansion that focused on expanding markets, I think if that happens it will be done smartly and emphasize successful teams and/or look for teams within the footprint to consolidate an already spread out league. To me that means teams that have had past success but completely forgotten about due to geography or market size, come into play. If WKU, Charlotte, or LA Tech, teams that have had basketball success in the past get hot, in football or basketball, they could be gone. Old Dominion is even more of a flight risk if they get hot because the AAC might keep an eye on VCU and Wichita St and need a 3rd team to balance it out (due to Navy) and ODU becomes a serious flight risk if they get good.

This CUSA is your biggest problem.

I think the same can be said for the AAC. Cincy and UCONN are definite flight risks if expansion happens. USF, UCF, and Memphis are also possibilities.

AAC then steals teams from CUSA and both conferences get worse.

(09-24-2013 03:24 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 01:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  In this debate C_USA has one glaring problem that cannot be overlooked: if a C-USA team gets too good, they can be plucked by the AAC. And unlike prior expansion that focused on expanding markets, I think if that happens it will be done smartly and emphasize successful teams and/or look for teams within the footprint to consolidate an already spread out league. To me that means teams that have had past success but completely forgotten about due to geography or market size, come into play. If WKU, Charlotte, or LA Tech, teams that have had basketball success in the past get hot, in football or basketball, they could be gone. Old Dominion is even more of a flight risk if they get hot because the AAC might keep an eye on VCU and Wichita St and need a 3rd team to balance it out (due to Navy) and ODU becomes a serious flight risk if they get good.

This CUSA is your biggest problem.

I think the same can be said for the AAC. Cincy and UCONN are definite flight risks if expansion happens. USF, UCF, and Memphis are also possibilities.

AAC then steals teams from CUSA and both conferences get worse.

To some degree true. But let's say AAC just wants to get better in hoops. They get VCU to go to 12, then pluck ODU and another school from CUSA to get to 14.

I think C-USA did what they had to do. They really contracted their footprint by expanding. Save for the ODU and Charlotte invitations. As far as I can tell they only have 12 football teams, 13 when Charlotte comes aboard. 5 of them are concentrated in two states. Two are in the same city in Florida, and you have two sort of in the middle in the sole remaining members USM and UAB. . Then there are two that are north of those, who are 30 something miles apart. Leaving only Marshall, ODU, and Charlotte as outliers.

Truth be told I think it would do both sides a favor if Marshall would go back to the MAC. With C-USA essentially becoming the Sunbelt, they would not only see at worse the same competition, but would play teams much closer to them. And each conference would get rid of their odd number.

(09-24-2013 03:28 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I think C-USA did what they had to do. They really contracted their footprint by expanding. Save for the ODU and Charlotte invitations. As far as I can tell they only have 12 football teams, 13 when Charlotte comes aboard. 5 of them are concentrated in two states. Two are in the same city in Florida, and you have two sort of in the middle in the sole remaining members USM and UAB. . Then there are two that are north of those, who are 30 something miles apart. Leaving only Marshall, ODU, and Charlotte as outliers.

Truth be told I think it would do both sides a favor if Marshall would go back to the MAC. With C-USA essentially becoming the Sunbelt, they would not only see at worse the same competition, but would play teams much closer to them. And each conference would get rid of their odd number.

Actually, CUSA will be at 14. They're at 14 this year- lose 3, but pick up Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, and Charlotte. They're at 16 for hoops this year lose 3 but then add Western Kentucky.

(09-24-2013 03:26 PM)stever20 Wrote:  To some degree true. But let's say AAC just wants to get better in hoops. They get VCU to go to 12, then pluck ODU and another school from CUSA to get to 14.

With just adding hoops schools, I.e. not wanting to expand football, VCU, Wichita St, Saint Louis, and Dayton are the best teams. Although I think two of those schools will be invited to the BE within a year. Geographically speaking of top 100 programs - I am using programs that rank in the top 100 either in the ESPN 50 for 50 ranking or in the top 100 in terms of AP poll rank - outside of the above four, the other teams who are not affiliated with a P5 conference or the Big East who don't have football programs are La Salle, St. Bonaventure, George Washington, Davidson, St. Joes, Richmond, George Mason, Old Dominion, and Pennsylvania. Of teams with football teams WKU, Charlotte, LA Tech, Middle Tennessee St and UAB are on the list.

From the non-football list, only looking at geography - because I assume any addition that is merit based, outside of the top four, will be because of something they do on the field in the future- after the top four St. Joes makes the most sense due to location in Philly (league is too spread out, I am all about consolidation) or ODU or Richmond if VCU is added. Of teams with football teams either Charlotte (travel partner for ECU) or WKU (halfway between Memphis and Cincinnati - connecting the conference) make the most sense, or MTSU. LA Tech is not bad either since they are so close to so many other teams.

But that is just me.

(09-24-2013 03:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Actually, CUSA will be at 14. They're at 14 this year- lose 3, but pick up Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, and Charlotte. They're at 16 for hoops this year lose 3 but then add Western Kentucky.

I was speaking of football. An odd number in basketball is no big deal. They will have 13 football members and 14 basketball members as of 2015 (12fb/14bb in 2014)

(09-24-2013 03:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 03:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Actually, CUSA will be at 14. They're at 14 this year- lose 3, but pick up Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, and Charlotte. They're at 16 for hoops this year lose 3 but then add Western Kentucky.

I was speaking of football. An odd number in basketball is no big deal. They will have 13 football members and 14 basketball members as of 2015 (12fb/14bb in 2014)

actually they'll have 14/14. They won't have any partial teams when Charlotte and ODU are transitioned into FBS.

(09-24-2013 04:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 03:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 03:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Actually, CUSA will be at 14. They're at 14 this year- lose 3, but pick up Western Kentucky, Old Dominion, and Charlotte. They're at 16 for hoops this year lose 3 but then add Western Kentucky.

I was speaking of football. An odd number in basketball is no big deal. They will have 13 football members and 14 basketball members as of 2015 (12fb/14bb in 2014)

actually they'll have 14/14. They won't have any partial teams when Charlotte and ODU are transitioned into FBS.

For one year there will be 13 football teams in CUSA.

ODU joins next season. Charlotte doesn't join until 2015.

I had no idea ODU had a football team. Silly me.

(09-24-2013 08:54 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 12:45 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  Plain and simple... the 4 bball schools do not get in every year, and very rarely will any other school get in

why because you said so? You are so butthurt about the AAC it's not funny. 3 of the last 5 years they've either gotten 4 teams in or would have if UConn hadn't been on probation. But that doesn't count to you. And that doesn't even take into account a program like UCF, who if the AAC had been around probably would have made the tourney in at least 1 of the seasons but because they were relegated to CSUCK, they didn't make the tourney.

butthurt? oh geez, not this again. Steve, even the damn rankings you used to validate your reasoning says the aac is a 3 bid conference this year... If anyone is butthurt it is you. All you've done this entire thread is downplay Cusa, hell, you refer to it as csuck... You tell me who's butthurt?

I still say the aac is a 3-4 bid conference 75% of the time, with 3 bids happening more often. You can't expect all 4 bball schools to never have a down year. Out of the 4, only one school has made it 5 out of the last 5, none have made 10 of the past 10.

(09-24-2013 10:39 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 08:54 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 12:45 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  Plain and simple... the 4 bball schools do not get in every year, and very rarely will any other school get in

why because you said so? You are so butthurt about the AAC it's not funny. 3 of the last 5 years they've either gotten 4 teams in or would have if UConn hadn't been on probation. But that doesn't count to you. And that doesn't even take into account a program like UCF, who if the AAC had been around probably would have made the tourney in at least 1 of the seasons but because they were relegated to CSUCK, they didn't make the tourney.

butthurt? oh geez, not this again. Steve, even the damn rankings you used to validate your reasoning says the aac is a 3 bid conference this year... If anyone is butthurt it is you. All you've done this entire thread is downplay Cusa, hell, you refer to it as csuck... You tell me who's butthurt?

I still say the aac is a 3-4 bid conference 75% of the time, with 3 bids happening more often. You can't expect all 4 bball schools to never have a down year. Out of the 4, only one school has made it 5 out of the last 5, none have made 10 of the past 10.

The thing about the AAC that is WAY different than CUSA is that it's easier to get that extra team in because the conference SOS is so much better than CUSA. I mean, the 2nd team in CUSA not projected to play a single top 50 team this year in conference play. The 5th team in AAC projected to play 8 top 50 games this year. That's a HUGE difference when you are getting into the RPI.

Also you are acting like none of the other teams can come up. USF made the tourney 2 years ago. UCF if the AAC were in play the last few years would have made the tourney. SMU has gotten serious with recruiting and could easily make the tourney the next few years. The AAC is going to be fine. Especially when you take into account their tv deal which absolutely destroys CUSA's deal.

By the way, Cinci came in at 47 in the rankings you referenced and it looks as if they are one of the last 4 in

(09-25-2013 04:09 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  By the way, Cinci came in at 47 in the rankings you referenced and it looks as if they are one of the last 4 in

yeah but key word there.... in....

(09-25-2013 04:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 04:09 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  By the way, Cinci came in at 47 in the rankings you referenced and it looks as if they are one of the last 4 in

yeah but key word there.... in....

yup, that gives the future aac 3 teams. Kind of blows your theory away of Cusa only getting in 1 team in if you believe that the aac gets more than 3

Cusa

77. USM
66. La tech
61. Charlotte
54. UTEP

AAC

75. Houston
72. Temple
64. SMU
47. Cinci

If those 4 aac teams are good enough for 2 at large bids, then those 4 Cusa teams are good enough for at least 1 at large bid.

(09-25-2013 04:41 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 04:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 04:09 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  By the way, Cinci came in at 47 in the rankings you referenced and it looks as if they are one of the last 4 in

yeah but key word there.... in....

yup, that gives the future aac 3 teams. Kind of blows your theory away of Cusa only getting in 1 team in if you believe that the aac gets more than 3

Cusa

77. USM
66. La tech
61. Charlotte
54. UTEP

AAC

75. Houston
72. Temple
64. SMU
47. Cinci

If those 4 aac teams are good enough for 2 at large bids, then those 4 Cusa teams are good enough for at least 1 at large bid.

The 4 AAC teams have a much stronger chance at an extra at large bid because of their schedule in conference play. You don't realize how much the SOS is going to tilt in the AAC's favor. I mean, Charlotte has 1 game against a top 60 team this year in conference play. SMU on the other hand would have 8 games against top 50 teams. That difference adds up very quickly. Also, you have the fact the AAC plays teams 2x and CUSA 1x except for 1 team. So, SMU for instance has 12 games against top 75 schools. Charlotte has 3 games against top 77 schools. You think that's a bit of a difference? If SMU can go 6-0 against the other 3 teams, and can go 4-8 against the top 75 teams, that's 10-8 in conference play. If they do anything in OOC play, they're at 20 wins and in the tourney.