(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddles with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You seem to overrate BC's grasp and potential in the New England market. Take that from a bc alumni and resident of Boston. Also, do you seriously believe that an ACC network is on basic in CT without UCONN?

Your answer to that question should go a long way in determining how reasonable you are.

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

The notion that Syracuse, BC, and Notre Dame overlap the CT market is patently absurd.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

Wrong on Rutgers and the NYC market.
The tv viewing is for the total region.
There no demarkation at the Hudson river

(08-18-2013 05:21 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

Wrong on Rutgers and the NYC market.
The tv viewing is for the total region.
There no demarkation at the Hudson river

Check again.

(08-18-2013 06:05 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 05:21 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

Wrong on Rutgers and the NYC market.
The tv viewing is for the total region.
There no demarkation at the Hudson river

Check again.

There is nothing to say,the B10 took Rutgers since it is an AAU school with a medical school and has a superior tv market in the NYC metro area.

Check out SNY!!!!

Some of you had questions about BC in New England - notice the following map:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/files/ABC-10-8-468x335.png


The ACC game is being carried by stations and outlets in Maine, Mass, Connecticutt, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Vermont - the blue shaded areas. That doesn't mean that BC is that popular, but it shows what the ACC picked up with BC.

If you want to learn something about how broadcast footprints are calculated you can look at these maps and even use this simple site: http://www.truckads.com/licensed_affilia...market_map

(08-18-2013 07:55 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 06:05 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 05:21 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

Wrong on Rutgers and the NYC market.
The tv viewing is for the total region.
There no demarkation at the Hudson river

Check again.

There is nothing to say,the B10 took Rutgers since it is an AAU school with a medical school and has a superior tv market in the NYC metro area.

Check out SNY!!!!

I can pretty much guarantee you that Rutgers taking over UMDNJ this summer had absolutely nothing to do with their invite.

People also forget that it was publicly stated that Rutgers' invite was conditional on Maryland saying yes. In other words, the B10 did not see enough value in Rutgers alone to only add them.

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

(08-18-2013 08:29 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 07:55 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 06:05 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 05:21 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

4. The problem is that you are claiming that Pitt brings the entire state of PA along with the adjacent broadcast areas. Good luck with that one. That may be true for Penn State football, but it ain't true for Pitt. If you're going to make wild claims, please document them. When you do, I'll shut up.

5. You obviously know nothing about the NY media market. It took a major revolution among viewers to get YES carriage on all of the NY cable carriers. And the Yankees are the closest thing to having universal appeal in the area. Very few people east of the Hudson are interested in Rutgers and will not pay extra for cable coverage that charges them for that. Residents of NYC have lots of different options for cable coverage and they will make their choices accordingly.

6. You show no knowledge of New England. I live in New England and have family in Boston and Vermont whom I visit regularly. I know the difference between what is carried on the networks in Boston and what is carried elsewhere. BC's footprint is absolutely not all of New England. The fact that you think that shows you don't have a clue. The only network that might get a school into all of New England is NESN and BC isn't on NESN. Even in that case, NESN isn't carried universally. BC has trouble carrying all of Boston much less anywhere else in New England.

7. The assumptions you make in your final point are staggering. You must sit in front of a TV and watch nothing but sports. I don't know anyone who does that. Many fans do watch one team and one team only because that's all they have time for and because they have other interests in their life. The sports junkie who does nothing but sit around watching sports is a tiny minority. As for Louisville, I understand that they get the ACC into the Kentucky market, but with UK in that market, it also means that they're going to get a smaller chunk of that market than they would if Louisville were the only team in that market - except of course for the mouth breathing sports junkies who do nothing else with their lives other than watch sports.

I don't understand your need to spew personal insults. The fact that you can't engage the discussion without doing so simply shows your lack of knowledge of the subject and the weakness of your argument in the first place.

Wrong on Rutgers and the NYC market.
The tv viewing is for the total region.
There no demarkation at the Hudson river

Check again.

There is nothing to say,the B10 took Rutgers since it is an AAU school with a medical school and has a superior tv market in the NYC metro area.

Check out SNY!!!!

I can pretty much guarantee you that Rutgers taking over UMDNJ this summer had absolutely nothing to do with their invite.

People also forget that it was publicly stated that Rutgers' invite was conditional on Maryland saying yes. In other words, the B10 did not see enough value in Rutgers alone to only add them.

The take over of umdnj did have significant part in the B10 taking Rutgers.
The B10 has more than just sports.It has a significant research consortium.A giant player in that is medical research.
The B10 was taking two schools not just one.The value of the NYC tv market to the new B10 tv contract is highly significant!!!!!

(08-18-2013 08:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Some of you had questions about BC in New England - notice the following map:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/files/ABC-10-8-468x335.png


The ACC game is being carried by stations and outlets in Maine, Mass, Connecticutt, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Vermont - the blue shaded areas. That doesn't mean that BC is that popular, but it shows what the ACC picked up with BC.

If you want to learn something about how broadcast footprints are calculated you can look at these maps and even use this simple site: http://www.truckads.com/licensed_affilia...market_map

Your point? Uconn is on basic in Boston (SNY). Does that mean they own Boston?

If the ACC network were to come to fruition, you don't get one state in the northeast on basic unless you plan to give it away. BC will not even carry Newton, let alone Boston, let alone Mass, let alone NE. There is a reason they cannot sell out sporting events in a metro of 5m. The ACC is following a failed strategy by doubling down.

(08-18-2013 09:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 06:54 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC did not need to improve football, but adding TAMU and Mizzou is a no-brainer as there are 30 million in the State of Texas area, and another 10 million in the Missouri/St.Louis/Illinois/KC/Kansas metro. The ACC's addition of Syracuse and Pitt added New York State, NYC metro, some Vermont metros, Pittsburg and PA - about 35 million folks. The B10's addition of Rutgers and MD is all about market - the State of NJ, part of the NYC metro, State of MD, part of Del, DC - about 25 million folks.

One of the things I try to remind folks is that there is room for 5-7 games over the Thursday night to Saturday midnight window - a conference does not have to have the single top draw in a State or metro to have sufficient access as most football fans watch several games over the weekend.

For the ACC ND is all about adding markets - Chicago, parts of Indiana, Michigan, the big metros of NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. The ACC greatly benefits by having ND in the basketball package as that pushes the ACC into those areas and the 5 football games also tap those markets.

The reason the ACC will not add West Va., and UConn is a combination of the lack of added markets and other historic issues. The market they could deliver the ACC is not sufficient enough to overcome the past. Now, if BC were to somehow fall off the earth into a crater and be no more, UConn's potential value to the ACC would rise dramatically.

I think for the SEC, the addition of Oklahoma is a market move because OU still has a national market, just like Nebraska did for the B10.

The addition of Louisville for the ACC in place of MD is a big win for the ACC as it puts the ACC in Kentucky and in the southside Indiana area and the trade is the defacto loss of Baltimore. The ACC maintains it's footprint in DC with VT and UVa.

Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

If Burlington, VT didn't care about Cuse FB why is their largest AM channel carrying the games?
http://www.ispsports.com/radio-network-a...affiliates

Compare Cuse's Radio Network to UConn's? Not even in the same ball park.

(08-19-2013 09:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 09:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 01:06 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Riddled with errors.

1. There are not 30 million people in Texas.

That's because I said there were 30 million in the State of Texas area - you do remember that this is about markets, right? You are aware that Texas media penetrates Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and New Mexico, both over the air and via cable. Well, no I suppose you don't understand that very well. That adds about 4 million to the Texas media market once you include places including but not limited to the greater Amarillio Tx Shreveport, La., and Beaumont, Tx markets.

2. There are not 10 million in Missouri even when the KC suburbs in Kansas and the St. Louis suburbs in Illinois are included.

Again see the response for number two - you don't understand the market areas. There are indeed 10 million folks in the Missouri market area and it overlaps into Arkansas and KY as well.

3. The idea that Syracuse brought all of NY state including the NYC metro market and some Vermont metros is bizarre. Does Vermont even have "metros" (plural)?

This is just plain stupid. If you don't know that Burlington VT/Platsburgh NY is a metro area - I don't know how to help you. Upstate NY media fully overlaps the State of Vermont - Albany also penetrates into Mass.

4. To compound the Syracuse problem, you estimate that Pittsburgh added to Syracuse brought a market of 35 million???

No we are crying for you.

You can't count. You don't understand that a media footprint does not conform to a political line on a map, and you are unable to deal with population numbers from differing demographic sources such as from the US Census and media market maps.

5. Rutgers brings very little east of the Hudson River. They certainly don't combine with Maryland to bring a market of 25 million.

Again, you are unable to make a simple calculation adding the NYC media market numbers with the Baltimore and DC media market numbers, taking into account the number of folks within Maryland and NJ. This is sad. I hope someone is watching your money for you and that you are not in an analytical position with an serious firm.

6. UConn's value to the ACC would not change a bit if BC were removed from the equation. UConn is simply not a factor in the Boston market.

Once again, you show that you know nothing about markets, or understand the overlap in markets. If the ACC did not have BC, whose market footprint is almost all of New England, then adding UConn would be helpful to the ACC since UConn's markets would be seen/heard in southside Mass and RI.

7. Louisville is a big win for the ACC because it puts the conference in Kentucky but UConn's market is too small. How does that make any sense when the Connecticut and Kentucky markets are about the same size - especially when you consider that Louisville faces competition from Kentucky while UConn has no competition in Connecticut?

Once again, you fail to comprehend that Louisville's market is new - no ACC team in the market. UConn's market is overlapped by BC, ND, and Syracuse. You also don't seem to understand that the market is 16-20 hours long for football and over 30 hours a week for basketball. No single team can monopolize the market otherwise that would mean a sports fan just watched one sport and one team in that sport and we know that is not true. The second most popular team in a market, still gets you into that market. So does the third. Once you drop down to a fourth team in a market you are into diminishing returns.

Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

If Burlington, VT didn't care about Cuse FB why is their largest AM channel carrying the games?
http://www.ispsports.com/radio-network-a...affiliates

Compare Cuse's Radio Network to UConn's? Not even in the same ball park.

I'm going to guess because Burlington, VT shares a radio market with Plattsburgh, NY. And upstate NY and VT are not dense enough (like CT, small territory and lots of people sandwiched in between major markets) to warrant competition over the airwaves. Not your interpretation that the people in Burlington really want them some Cuse basketball.

How much does Syracuse Univ gain financially from these sweet radio contracts?

I think those making the ACC argument that "coverage" means the same thing as market ownership are doing so naively, and are not trying to be disingenuous. What I have yet to see is how this "coverage" will be monetized. From my recollection of Syracuse sports revenue figures, they have historically lagged behind the "big boys" in the old big east (Uconn, WV, Ville, Pitt) so my guess is very little of their sweet radio coverage actual results in money for Cuse.

I can find Sacred Heart athletics on the radio in CT...Is this because there is real demand for their product, or because there is a radio station that transmits into Fairfield County that has the choice of broadcasting Sacred Heart athletics OR silence for a few hours a week, and SH essentially gives away their rights for free?

(08-19-2013 12:21 PM)auggie22 Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 09:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 09:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 12:52 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Melky, I see your emotions regarding UConn are running ahead of your logic - that was true back in 2003 when your elected officials sued the ACC. That wasn't a smart decision - perhaps that says something about UConn and why you are so low on the desirability totem pole.

You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

If Burlington, VT didn't care about Cuse FB why is their largest AM channel carrying the games?
http://www.ispsports.com/radio-network-a...affiliates

Compare Cuse's Radio Network to UConn's? Not even in the same ball park.

I'm going to guess because Burlington, VT shares a radio market with Plattsburgh, NY. And upstate NY and VT are not dense enough (like CT, small territory and lots of people sandwiched in between major markets) to warrant competition over the airwaves. Not your interpretation that the people in Burlington really want them some Cuse basketball.

How much does Syracuse Univ gain financially from these sweet radio contracts?

I think those making the ACC argument that "coverage" means the same thing as market ownership are doing so naively, and are not trying to be disingenuous. What I have yet to see is how this "coverage" will be monetized. From my recollection of Syracuse sports revenue figures, they have historically lagged behind the "big boys" in the old big east (Uconn, WV, Ville, Pitt) so my guess is very little of their sweet radio coverage actual results in money for Cuse.

I can find Sacred Heart athletics on the radio in CT...Is this because there is real demand for their product, or because there is a radio station that transmits into Fairfield County that has the choice of broadcasting Sacred Heart athletics OR silence for a few hours a week, and SH essentially gives away their rights for free?

Latest figures: Cuse made quite a bit more revenue than UConn. You UConn guys can't admit that Syracuse is a bigger Brand and actually makes money. Syracuse doesn't rely on Student fees to fluff up their revenue numbers either.

I'll be the first to admit that radio fees probably are not that much but don't discount Cuse's Network. Cuse has 3 24 hr 50,000 Watt Clearchannel AM stations in Schnectady, Rochester and Buffalo along with a radio station in NYC/NJ.

(08-19-2013 03:22 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 12:21 PM)auggie22 Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 09:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 09:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  You are wildly overestimating all of this

1. I don't care how far the Texas market penetrates into those other states. It only matters if those other states are watching Texas games. If you have ratings to indicate they are, then post them. They have plenty of their own teams to watch.

2. You're suggesting that the suburbs in Kansas, IL, KY, and AR = 4 million people? That's nuts. But again it doesn't matter if viewers in those states aren't watching the U of Missouri. Ratings matter.

3. Yes, I'm aware than Burlington, VT is technically a metro area. But as I said in my post "metros (plural)" because you referred to the plural. Who the heck else were you referencing besides Burlington. On top of that, you have this bizarre notion that Syracuse has drawing power in all of upstate NY as far north as Plattsburgh and as far south as NYC. That's just certifiably insane. Syracuse is a relatively small privated school in central upstate NY that has no coattails for ordinary NYers. State flagships typically draw interest from all over the state, but the 19+ million people in NY State do not identify with Syracuse University in the slightest. And they certainly don't in Burlington, VT, home to that state's flagship university. Believe it or not, people in VT actually cheer for UVM. Nor do they care about SU anywhere in Massachusetts.

He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

If Burlington, VT didn't care about Cuse FB why is their largest AM channel carrying the games?
http://www.ispsports.com/radio-network-a...affiliates

Compare Cuse's Radio Network to UConn's? Not even in the same ball park.

I'm going to guess because Burlington, VT shares a radio market with Plattsburgh, NY. And upstate NY and VT are not dense enough (like CT, small territory and lots of people sandwiched in between major markets) to warrant competition over the airwaves. Not your interpretation that the people in Burlington really want them some Cuse basketball.

How much does Syracuse Univ gain financially from these sweet radio contracts?

I think those making the ACC argument that "coverage" means the same thing as market ownership are doing so naively, and are not trying to be disingenuous. What I have yet to see is how this "coverage" will be monetized. From my recollection of Syracuse sports revenue figures, they have historically lagged behind the "big boys" in the old big east (Uconn, WV, Ville, Pitt) so my guess is very little of their sweet radio coverage actual results in money for Cuse.

I can find Sacred Heart athletics on the radio in CT...Is this because there is real demand for their product, or because there is a radio station that transmits into Fairfield County that has the choice of broadcasting Sacred Heart athletics OR silence for a few hours a week, and SH essentially gives away their rights for free?

Latest figures: Cuse made quite a bit more revenue than UConn. You UConn guys can't admit that Syracuse is a bigger Brand and actually makes money. Syracuse doesn't rely on Student fees to fluff up their revenue numbers either.

I'll be the first to admit that radio fees probably are not that much but don't discount Cuse's Network. Cuse has 3 24 hr 50,000 Watt Clearchannel AM stations in Schnectady, Rochester and Buffalo along with a radio station in NYC/NJ.

Yep, I see how your revenue increased by $22M from previous year, likely attributed to"atypical transactions".

http://dailyorange.com/2013/01/su-athlet...decisions/

So prior to this one-time bump in revenues, they have significantly lagged UCONN in generating sports revenue. Does this mean that UCONN had a bigger brand (due to the fact that they could monetize their popularity in a more lucrative fashion) prior to the recent "atypical transactions"? Keep in mind that if your reply is that UCONN enjoyed this historical advantage because of institutional support, that I would appreciate some breakdown of where UCONN has benefited from this and Syracuse has not.

Thanks,

UConn's IMG contract is for $8 million a year, signed in 2008.

Syracuse's IMG contract is for $6 million a year, signed in 2013.

UConn therefore has the more powerful brand as measured by a company paid to make money on it.

But I still don't know why we have fights about UConn versus Syracuse in a thread about Big Ten expansion.

I also am still waiting for the Ohio State insider (the name is known) to confirm or retract his previous statements.

Also, still waiting for Chip Brown.

Either everyone has clammed up because of too many leaks or we were duped.

(08-19-2013 04:27 PM)auggie22 Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 03:22 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 12:21 PM)auggie22 Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 09:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-18-2013 09:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  He is on the money with Syracuse and Upstate NY. I once worked as a manufacturers rep covering half of New York State and I can tell you that in Plattsburgh, they do follow Syracuse closely. I have seen how stores up in that area order SU merchandise and sell it on a regular basis. This tells me two things. One, there has to be a significant number of SU fans in the area for the local stores to want to sell it and two, there has to be a significant number of fans in the area who regularly buys the merchandise that the stores kept reordering it. You dont live here, so you really are not qualified to make absolute statements whether or not folks in Upstate NY follow SU. You can only go by your perception of the way that Uconn is treated in Conn. and then reason that SU couldnt possibly get that kind of support because its not a public school. But if Upstate New Yorkers dont root for SU who do they root for? Dont say ND, because ND is not a factor as they dont get anywhere near the press that SU does. Even Penn State gets more press up here than ND, and Penn State gets very little press.

I was working down in the southern Tier of New York (near Pennsylvania border) about 3 weeks ago and walked into a convenience store and they had SU tshirts and sweatshirts hanging up over their display of SU gear. Remember, this was about 3 weeks ago during the off season for fb and bb.

SU is the exception to the rule as far as being a private that has a large following in its state. And Syracuse is by no means a small private, as it is larger than some state schools and very similar in size to other state schools like Uconn. But when you look at Upstate NY fans and who they root for, they dont care if SU is a public school or a private as long as they are winners. I dont think many fans even know if SU is a private school or public school, and that is because they dont care.

And you never did answer my question from a couple of days ago. Do you think that the Acc could have gotten the recently announced deal with MSG, if Syracuse was still apart of the BE?

If Burlington, VT didn't care about Cuse FB why is their largest AM channel carrying the games?
http://www.ispsports.com/radio-network-a...affiliates

Compare Cuse's Radio Network to UConn's? Not even in the same ball park.

I'm going to guess because Burlington, VT shares a radio market with Plattsburgh, NY. And upstate NY and VT are not dense enough (like CT, small territory and lots of people sandwiched in between major markets) to warrant competition over the airwaves. Not your interpretation that the people in Burlington really want them some Cuse basketball.

How much does Syracuse Univ gain financially from these sweet radio contracts?

I think those making the ACC argument that "coverage" means the same thing as market ownership are doing so naively, and are not trying to be disingenuous. What I have yet to see is how this "coverage" will be monetized. From my recollection of Syracuse sports revenue figures, they have historically lagged behind the "big boys" in the old big east (Uconn, WV, Ville, Pitt) so my guess is very little of their sweet radio coverage actual results in money for Cuse.

I can find Sacred Heart athletics on the radio in CT...Is this because there is real demand for their product, or because there is a radio station that transmits into Fairfield County that has the choice of broadcasting Sacred Heart athletics OR silence for a few hours a week, and SH essentially gives away their rights for free?

Latest figures: Cuse made quite a bit more revenue than UConn. You UConn guys can't admit that Syracuse is a bigger Brand and actually makes money. Syracuse doesn't rely on Student fees to fluff up their revenue numbers either.

I'll be the first to admit that radio fees probably are not that much but don't discount Cuse's Network. Cuse has 3 24 hr 50,000 Watt Clearchannel AM stations in Schnectady, Rochester and Buffalo along with a radio station in NYC/NJ.

Yep, I see how your revenue increased by $22M from previous year, likely attributed to"atypical transactions".

http://dailyorange.com/2013/01/su-athlet...decisions/

So prior to this one-time bump in revenues, they have significantly lagged UCONN in generating sports revenue. Does this mean that UCONN had a bigger brand (due to the fact that they could monetize their popularity in a more lucrative fashion) prior to the recent "atypical transactions"? Keep in mind that if your reply is that UCONN enjoyed this historical advantage because of institutional support, that I would appreciate some breakdown of where UCONN has benefited from this and Syracuse has not.

Thanks,

Actually, the difference maker for Uconn is its womens basketball team, as Uconn actually makes big money off of its womens basketball team. But SU's mens basketball far surpasses Uconns mens bb in revenue generation and is one of the top 7 teams in mens basketball revenue. And SU's fb team surpasses Uconns fb team in generating revenue. SU makes a whole lot more revenue than Uconn as far as licensing its brand as well, with SU being ranked #31 while Uconn is ranked #53. This my opinion, but I expect that divide to get larger and larger as SU's fb program starts winning more consistantly, while being in the Acc and Uconn being in the AAC

Gollegiate Licensing Sales Rankings link

(08-19-2013 05:52 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  UConn's IMG contract is for $8 million a year, signed in 2008.

Syracuse's IMG contract is for $6 million a year, signed in 2013.

UConn therefore has the more powerful brand as measured by a company paid to make money on it.

But I still don't know why we have fights about UConn versus Syracuse in a thread about Big Ten expansion.

I also am still waiting for the Ohio State insider (the name is known) to confirm or retract his previous statements.

Also, still waiting for Chip Brown.

Either everyone has clammed up because of too many leaks or we were duped.

You got that link for Cuse and IMG?

Bottom Line 'Cuse, ACC > UConn, AAC 'Nuff Said !

I don't see how Card guy. Syracuse is non existent. I may have had on other conversation about that team in my lifetime and it had to do with conference realignment. Syracuse is nothing in football. UConn has at least been to the Fiesta bowl in recent years.

(08-19-2013 07:46 PM)UHCougar07 Wrote:  I don't see how Card guy. Syracuse is non existent. I may have had on other conversation about that team in my lifetime and it had to do with conference realignment. Syracuse is nothing in football. UConn has at least been to the Fiesta bowl in recent years.

Well that settles it!