Oklahoma City, Reno, Round Rock. Those studies can make their point. These cities make another.

(06-06-2013 11:53 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  1. City Council said tax payers would not pay for this stadium. They lied.

2. City Council said it wouldn't cost more than 50 million. They lied.

3. City Council said it would be an economic boost to the city. They lied.

Fitbud, you made three bold statements. Which you are entitled to. Both myself and randaddyminer disagreed. I went to far as to challenge and ask you to expand on your statement. Explain the lies. It is too easy to say "they" "lied." In typical Fitbud fashion, you retreated and rehashed an old statement:

(06-08-2013 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Studies have been done on several cities and it has been proven that stadiums do not improve the local economy. If you want to believe that El Paso is going to be the exception then be my guest.

Just remember however that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity.

Is it asking too much for you to be able to back up your (wild) statements? The above is rehashed information, is not factual in the way you present it, and comes off like another Fitbud white flag.

(06-08-2013 04:29 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 11:53 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  1. City Council said tax payers would not pay for this stadium. They lied.

2. City Council said it wouldn't cost more than 50 million. They lied.

3. City Council said it would be an economic boost to the city. They lied.

Fitbud, you made three bold statements. Which you are entitled to. Both myself and randaddyminer disagreed. I went to far as to challenge and ask you to expand on your statement. Explain the lies. It is too easy to say "they" "lied." In typical Fitbud fashion, you retreated and rehashed an old statement:

(06-08-2013 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Studies have been done on several cities and it has been proven that stadiums do not improve the local economy. If you want to believe that El Paso is going to be the exception then be my guest.

Just remember however that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity.

Is it asking too much for you to be able to back up your (wild) statements? The above is rehashed information, is not factual in the way you present it, and comes off like another Fitbud white flag.

I've shown you study after study. There have been whole books written about it.

I could post the information here but I already know your M O.

If I post the information, you claim it's irrelevent and vage.

If I simply tell you what I know, you dismiss it as opinion or inaccurate.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I've shown you study after study. There have been whole books written about it.

I'll take you literally here. Please link to two separate studies.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I could post the information here but I already know your M O.

By posting information, do you mean copying and pasting a random article? That is your method of operation, not mine. By the way, there are still many, many specific questions to you that have gone unanswered.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I post the information, you claim it's irrelevent and vage.

If you attempt to back up your claims and statements with opinion, then no, they are dismissed.

However you are free to post and share your opinions. They are not fact though.

You think acquiring a AAA franchise isn't significant. That is your opinion and that is fine. You find it hard it hard to believe a local station cannot afford to broadcast Miner road games. Your opinion doesn't matter in that situation and you need to back up your statement.

There is a difference between those two scenarios.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I simply tell you what I know, you dismiss it as opinion or inaccurate.

...and I haven't even asked for compensation for the constant schooling I have been giving you.

(06-09-2013 06:32 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I've shown you study after study. There have been whole books written about it.

I'll take you literally here. Please link to two separate studies.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I could post the information here but I already know your M O.

By posting information, do you mean copying and pasting a random article? That is your method of operation, not mine. By the way, there are still many, many specific questions to you that have gone unanswered.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I post the information, you claim it's irrelevent and vage.

If you attempt to back up your claims and statements with opinion, then no, they are dismissed.

However you are free to post and share your opinions. They are not fact though.

You think acquiring a AAA franchise isn't significant. That is your opinion and that is fine. You find it hard it hard to believe a local station cannot afford to broadcast Miner road games. Your opinion doesn't matter in that situation and you need to back up your statement.

There is a difference between those two scenarios.

(06-09-2013 10:06 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I simply tell you what I know, you dismiss it as opinion or inaccurate.

...and I haven't even asked for compensation for the constant schooling I have been giving you.

Constant schooling?

Have you even researched the economic impact of sports stadiums? You seem to have this ignorant notion that this actually going to improve the economy.

But don't take my word for it. Do the research for yourself.

Fitbud, you do the research son... As I posted above, your studies have nothing to do with the El Paso stadium... your studies are by people who try to alter economic theories to fit their agenda/perspective, those people aren't even respected economist and your studies primarily focus on relocating stadiums in a downtown area.

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Constant schooling?

It is common knowledge, and most would agree, that I have schooled you consistently in the downtown and baseball stadium dialogue.

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Have you even researched the economic impact of sports stadiums? You seem to have this ignorant notion that this actually going to improve the economy.

Do you mean link and/or mention books that I have never read

Depends on what you mean by research. I think you know the answer though. I am able to post who, what, when, and why to back up my posts. Most people appreciate that. Crabs and anklebiters seem to prefer "them" "they" "lied," copying and pasting, and mentioning books.

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  But don't take my word for it. Do the research for yourself.

I will continue my impartial research if you begin any sort of research of your own.

Some of your somewhat aggressive comments towards me leads me to believe you don't know who said what to you. Also, it leads me to believe you are just trying to stir things up and don't really have an opinion of your own. Both are fine. It keeps this section of the forum hopping. I am that much more informed when I have similar discussions at other forums.

Now, have I ever said a AAA baseball franchise is going to save the city and/or revitalize downtown? No, I have not. I am familiar with the City budget. 50 million dollars is not a lot of money. 1 billion dollars, in total, in bonds and certificates is also not a lot of money.

I hope you haven't tuned out and already started looking for a random article to link to. Here is how I see things. Just my opinion. They City of El Paso agreed to build a 50 million dollar stadium so that MountainStar could bring a AAA franchise to El Paso.

That is only one step and alone will not rescue Downtown.

If the baseball franchise is successful, I am hoping new entertainment options will open in downtown. Do I think Six Flags is going to come to El Paso because of a successful baseball franchise? No, I don't. I am hoping for a Dave & Busters, Quarters, or something new we don't have here. I am hoping that snowballs into an Arena Football team and/or a higher end soccer franchise.

Basically we can't get to XYZ without ABC. To me, a minor league baseball franchise is the fundamental element to start the ball rolling. It alone isn't everything. It is just the first step.

I got to teach a couple of classes at the Texas Tech Medical school. Not to be vague, but that is what I want for El Paso. I don't want to be Dallas, or San Antonio, or California, I want to be cutting edge, new, and different. I want the medical students to have a reason to stay in El Paso. In my honest opinion, this baseball opportunity is the beginning step.

Love El Paso or hate it, and I happen to love it, we are on island in the southwest. It is a long ass drive west, north, or east to get to anywhere. There or no towns, suburbs, or cities surrounding El Paso to help support our entertainment options. AAA baseball is the perfect sized entertainment for our market.

I'm single and not much of a drinker. When UTEP basketball ends, for a guy with my interests, there is not a lot for me to do. Baseball will help fill that void. A Dave & Busters will help. Etc Etc Etc

(06-10-2013 02:14 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Constant schooling?

It is common knowledge, and most would agree, that I have schooled you consistently in the downtown and baseball stadium dialogue.

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Have you even researched the economic impact of sports stadiums? You seem to have this ignorant notion that this actually going to improve the economy.

Do you mean link and/or mention books that I have never read

Depends on what you mean by research. I think you know the answer though. I am able to post who, what, when, and why to back up my posts. Most people appreciate that. Crabs and anklebiters seem to prefer "them" "they" "lied," copying and pasting, and mentioning books.

(06-09-2013 11:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  But don't take my word for it. Do the research for yourself.

I will continue my impartial research if you begin any sort of research of your own.

Some of your somewhat aggressive comments towards me leads me to believe you don't know who said what to you. Also, it leads me to believe you are just trying to stir things up and don't really have an opinion of your own. Both are fine. It keeps this section of the forum hopping. I am that much more informed when I have similar discussions at other forums.

Now, have I ever said a AAA baseball franchise is going to save the city and/or revitalize downtown? No, I have not. I am familiar with the City budget. 50 million dollars is not a lot of money. 1 billion dollars, in total, in bonds and certificates is also not a lot of money.

I hope you haven't tuned out and already started looking for a random article to link to. Here is how I see things. Just my opinion. They City of El Paso agreed to build a 50 million dollar stadium so that MountainStar could bring a AAA franchise to El Paso.

That is only one step and alone will not rescue Downtown.

If the baseball franchise is successful, I am hoping new entertainment options will open in downtown. Do I think Six Flags is going to come to El Paso because of a successful baseball franchise? No, I don't. I am hoping for a Dave & Busters, Quarters, or something new we don't have here. I am hoping that snowballs into an Arena Football team and/or a higher end soccer franchise.

Basically we can't get to XYZ without ABC. To me, a minor league baseball franchise is the fundamental element to start the ball rolling. It alone isn't everything. It is just the first step.

I got to teach a couple of classes at the Texas Tech Medical school. Not to be vague, but that is what I want for El Paso. I don't want to be Dallas, or San Antonio, or California, I want to be cutting edge, new, and different. I want the medical students to have a reason to stay in El Paso. In my honest opinion, this baseball opportunity is the beginning step.

Love El Paso or hate it, and I happen to love it, we are on island in the southwest. It is a long ass drive west, north, or east to get to anywhere. There or no towns, suburbs, or cities surrounding El Paso to help support our entertainment options. AAA baseball is the perfect sized entertainment for our market.

I'm single and not much of a drinker. When UTEP basketball ends, for a guy with my interests, there is not a lot for me to do. Baseball will help fill that void. A Dave & Busters will help. Etc Etc Etc

I love El Paso too. I just think that we have an identity crisis and we try to remedy that by being like every other small american city and making the same mistakes that others did years ago.

El Paso will truly move forward IMHO when we stop trying to be like everyone else and start embrassing who we really are.

(06-11-2013 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I love El Paso too. I just think that we have an identity crisis......

You love negativity... Sorry, um Fitbuddy... or um Fitbud.... Wait, what were we saying about identity crisis?

(06-11-2013 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I love El Paso too. I just think that we have an identity crisis and we try to remedy that by being like every other small american city and making the same mistakes that others did years ago.

You said mistakes. Assuming you feel building a stadium is a mistake, can you expand on what other mistakes the City of El Paso has made like every other small American city? On this issue, I am not challenging you. This is a good discussion. Expand on your opinion, please.

(06-11-2013 02:22 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  El Paso will truly move forward IMHO when we stop trying to be like everyone else and start embrassing who we really are.

1. Who are we really?

2. Move forward, how? What goal or endgame do you have in mind?

Well, I'll tell you who we are not. We are not San Antonio, or Phoenix or San Diego or even Albaquerque.

I constantly hear people say that there is nothing to do in El Paso, that we should be more like this city or that city. All that we can be is El Paso. We are a fairly large city with a ton of culture.

Many in this town seem to think that the only way to move forward is to try and be like other cities.

What I think makes this city great is the exact same thing that others think makes this city bad.

For a city this size, we have very little traffic, and crime. We have a small town feel and living here is like going back in time. Those are good qualities not bad ones.

IMHO, the best thing we can do for El Paso is to invest in our children. Education is the key. I would much rather the city invest in schools and college and those kinds of programs. Not sports stadiums and night life for young professionals.

Let me get this straight... In order for us to change and gain progress, we should stay the same??? Fit, you make no sense

(06-13-2013 12:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Well, I'll tell you who we are not. We are not San Antonio, or Phoenix or San Diego or even Albaquerque.

So I ask you to expand on who we are and you reply with who we are not. Par for the course.

(06-13-2013 12:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I constantly hear people say that there is nothing to do in El Paso, that we should be more like this city or that city. All that we can be is El Paso. We are a fairly large city with a ton of culture.

Fair enough. Your opinion.

(06-13-2013 12:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Many in this town seem to think that the only way to move forward is to try and be like other cities.

Fair enough. Your opinion.

(06-13-2013 12:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  What I think makes this city great is the exact same thing that others think makes this city bad.

For a city this size, we have very little traffic, and crime. We have a small town feel and living here is like going back in time. Those are good qualities not bad ones.

Fair enough. Your opinion.

(06-13-2013 12:58 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  IMHO, the best thing we can do for El Paso is to invest in our children. Education is the key. I would much rather the city invest in schools and college and those kinds of programs. Not sports stadiums and night life for young professionals

Do you believe, for a second, that 50 million dollars would make a difference in the education system in El Paso. That 50 million dollars would be spent in one day, exhausted, and probably wouldn't make a difference.

Now, spending that same 50 million dollars on a project that can have continuous trickle down effect...

I'm not just talking about the stadium. Again. I never had a problem with El Paso trying to get a triple A baseball team. Only the location of the stadium and ultimately how much we are going to spend.

I'm talking in general about how city council proposes to move this city forward.

City Council is taking a top down approach rather than a bottom up approach.

They seem to be focused on making downtown attractive to those who have money in the hopes that this money eventually trickles down to the less fortunate.

I would rather they invest in programs that help the less fortunate to gain the skills that attract better paying jobs.

You can give a man a fish that will feed him for one day or you can teach that man how to fish so he can feed himself for a lifetime.

(06-13-2013 07:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I'm not just talking about the stadium. Again. I never had a problem with El Paso trying to get a triple A baseball team.

So those endless post you wrote about how nobody wanted this team, no city wanted the AAA padres and how bad they sucked were just a figment of my imagination

(06-13-2013 10:28 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(06-13-2013 07:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I'm not just talking about the stadium. Again. I never had a problem with El Paso trying to get a triple A baseball team.

So those endless post you wrote about how nobody wanted this team, no city wanted the AAA padres and how bad they sucked were just a figment of my imagination

What I have said is that I have yet to see anyone post evidence that another city was interested getting this team.

Remember, that is the reason why City Council said we had to do this quickly and also the reason why we couldn't wait til November to let the public vote.

I'm disappointed that they didn't pick my team name.

I thought the El Paso Lightning would be a great name for the team.

The choices are

Aardvarks
Chihuahuas
Sun dogs
Desert Gators
Buckaroos

I think Sun Dogs are the best of those choices but I'm going to vote for the Chihuahuas.

Desert Gators or Sun Dogs.

Sun dogs. Unless we bring them back to the plaza, then I'll go desert gator