The actual headline:

ACC proved out of UC's league

Bearcats tried to reposition athletics program, but, for now, they're stuck where they are

UC did make an aggressive pitch to join the ACC last fall with an impressive presentation, according to an official from an ACC school who asked that his name not be used. But UC simply couldn't offer the league what Louisville had state-of-the-art football and basketball venues, an $84 million athletics budget and successful programs in football, men's basketball and women's basketball in addition to solid programs in the Olympic sports.

When the Cardinals won the national championship in men's basketball this past season and lost in the national championship game in women's basketball, it was hard to argue with the ACC's decision.

Although no vote was taken that would have determined whether UC or Connecticut was next in line, the official said it was clear from the tone of the discussions that Connecticut was viewed more favorably than UC.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130...ck_check=1

I hope some way UC can rise back into a Power5 league. They are a Good Program.

(05-13-2013 09:03 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I hope some way UC can rise back into a Power5 league. They are a Good Program.

Gotta be the Big 12. I see no other way.

The last 2 schools to join a P5 had over a 50,000 seat football stadium in Louisville and Rutgers.

This is the problem faced by UC; they don't have a large traditional fan base.

(05-13-2013 09:29 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The last 2 schools to join a P5 had over a 50,000 seat football stadium in Louisville and Rutgers.

This is the problem faced by UC; they don't have a large traditional fan base.

That a problem for UConn as well...

Quote:Although no vote was taken that would have determined whether UC or Connecticut was next in line [for the ACC], the official said it was clear from the tone of the discussions that Connecticut was viewed more favorably than UC.

Sounds like the ACC had a replacement pool set up in case Maryland wasn't alone.

(05-13-2013 09:37 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 09:29 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The last 2 schools to join a P5 had over a 50,000 seat football stadium in Louisville and Rutgers.

This is the problem faced by UC; they don't have a large traditional fan base.

That a problem for UConn as well...

I have mentioned it before the new standard for a Big Time stadium is roughly 60,000 seats. 55,000 is close enough.

40,000 was big enough 20 years ago back when the Big East football program was formed and that was established as a standard for the league which UConn built to.

UC really didn't have a FB fan base prior to the Big East so never needed anything larger than a 35,000 home stadium. To fill it their program had to be contending for BCS bowls with an unusually high level of success.

(05-13-2013 09:41 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

Quote:Although no vote was taken that would have determined whether UC or Connecticut was next in line [for the ACC], the official said it was clear from the tone of the discussions that Connecticut was viewed more favorably than UC.

Sounds like the ACC had a replacement pool set up in case Maryland wasn't alone.

To me that just means they considered 3 candidates to replace Maryland and Louisville had the most support with UConn having the 2nd most and Cincy was considered. That's even how the story was originally reported when news broke of UofL's invite.

“I feel sorry for them,” said former UC athletic director Bob Goin, who engineered UC’s move from Conference USA to the Big East in 2003. “They’ll bounce back somewhere, but the only chance they’ve got now is having (the ACC) say we’re better off adding somebody. It does hurt me. I was really proud that our football team was playing in the Orange Bowl and the Sugar Bowl and now the basketball team is going to the NCAA. They have things going. Now we’re back to Memphis coming to town, Tulane coming to town and SMU. The city’s not going to buy into that.”


They better buy it. If they don't, it will push UC down the expansion list. This is not the time to not support your teams. If you don't, someone else will.

(05-13-2013 08:45 PM)Maize Wrote:  the official said it was clear from the tone of the discussions that Connecticut was viewed more favorably than UC.

Stadium capacity:
BC 44,500
TCU 45,000
Utah 45,000
Syracuse 49,000
Rutgers 52,000
Louisville 55,000
WVU 60,000
VT 66,000

UConn 40,000
Cincy 35,000

The smallest stadium that has moved up to a power 5 league the past 10 years is BC.

UConn's profile certainly fits the ACC better than any other school left so it's not surprising they were next on the list. I think the whole lawsuit and lingering resentment is overblown. If the ACC had done well in football the last several years and there was little concern about improving the overall football product then I think UConn would have been the choice to replace Maryland. Louisville was able to step in because the ACC was desperate for a good football program.

Budgets, ability to raise revenues, and TV brands are far more important than mere stadium capacity.

The ACC didn't take UL because of a 50k stadium, they took them because align with their success and dma they had over twice the athletics budget of most candidates and could bankroll most of the AAC athletic budgets with their hoops revenue alone. They have so much money that even with a bad hire (kragthorpe) they can still attract and retain a new coach (strong) toget them back on track.

Likewise TCU was able to use private donors to bankroll a budget in the MWC of just under 70mm with a 25mm football budget that is larger than most teams in the P5.

This kind of financial base gives the ammunition for a school to compete. It isn't simple stadium capacity or attendance.

It's a money game, for the most part. How one performs on the field can be secondary, yet it is helpful, certainly. Yet if you have the money you should be successful, and UofL and TCU have parlayed their AD budgets into on-field/court success.

UConn almost certainly is attractive b/c they have an AD budget in the 60s mil. range, as did most other schools in the BE (incl. the never made it TCU), but what schools didn't? Cincy & USF.

Plain and simple this is killing the Bearcats. The latest AD budget figures I've seen had UofL at approx. $87 mil. and Cincy at $39.5 mil.... that is simply not going to be good enough in this day and age. That's old C-usa budget numbers.

IDK how the Univ. of Cincy is going to up their budget, but they must do so, and considerably. At least to Pitt levels, which I believe is in the 50s mil. range....

(05-13-2013 09:41 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

Quote:Although no vote was taken that would have determined whether UC or Connecticut was next in line [for the ACC], the official said it was clear from the tone of the discussions that Connecticut was viewed more favorably than UC.

Sounds like the ACC had a replacement pool set up in case Maryland wasn't alone.

Hope so. We should have known the reptiles preferred the Big 10 as soon as PSU joined.

(05-13-2013 09:03 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I hope some way UC can rise back into a Power5 league. They are a Good Program.

When was Cincinnati in one of the Top 5 conferences?

(05-14-2013 03:09 AM)Crimsonelf Wrote:  It's a money game, for the most part. How one performs on the field can be secondary, yet it is helpful, certainly. Yet if you have the money you should be successful, and UofL and TCU have parlayed their AD budgets into on-field/court success.

UConn almost certainly is attractive b/c they have an AD budget in the 60s mil. range, as did most other schools in the BE (incl. the never made it TCU), but what schools didn't? Cincy & USF.

Plain and simple this is killing the Bearcats. The latest AD budget figures I've seen had UofL at approx. $87 mil. and Cincy at $39.5 mil.... that is simply not going to be good enough in this day and age. That's old C-usa budget numbers.

IDK how the Univ. of Cincy is going to up their budget, but they must do so, and considerably. At least to Pitt levels, which I believe is in the 50s mil. range....

Your right about budgets in some senses and your right that Cincinnati needs to increase it's budget. All the years of football winning, the university did not cash in on it's success. However, the big dollars are relative in a sense that not all schools with larger budgets than Cincinnati are successful in their respective leagues or even outside of their leagues. Look at schools like Wake Forest, Purdue, Indiana many of which can't beat many major schools they play each and every year. Not to mention the fact that schools like PU, IU and Wake are not using their big league dollars appropriately or effectively. One thing many don't quite understand in Louisville is we have had more success in football than Louisville over the past six years, yet we have less than half of the budget as you mentioned 87 to 39. How can we have a better overall record with half of the budget? The problem that the ACC saw in Cincinnati was definately a lack of revenue and lack of scholarships offered in golf, swimming, track and field and baseball has hurt us over time. Whit Babcock has now reinstated scholarships in these areas with Tuberville's donation, we should begin to have more success in these sports too. We also need to start women's softball and men's lacrosse.

(05-13-2013 09:55 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  “I feel sorry for them,” said former UC athletic director Bob Goin, who engineered UC’s move from Conference USA to the Big East in 2003. “They’ll bounce back somewhere, but the only chance they’ve got now is having (the ACC) say we’re better off adding somebody. It does hurt me. I was really proud that our football team was playing in the Orange Bowl and the Sugar Bowl and now the basketball team is going to the NCAA. They have things going. Now we’re back to Memphis coming to town, Tulane coming to town and SMU. The city’s not going to buy into that.”


They better buy it. If they don't, it will push UC down the expansion list. This is not the time to not support your teams. If you don't, someone else will.

Very true. There's no question that UofL was helped by drawing 50,000 fans to the renovated PJS and 20,000 fans to YUM.

Nevertheless, we are battling major human nature here. Despite official figures, USF often put less than 30,000 in the RJS stands for Big East football games and only sold out when an FSU shows up and brings 30,000 of their own fans? What are the odds we are going to draw more for Tulsa and Temple? To say nothing of the Sun Dome attendance now that big names like Syracuse, Georgetown, and Louisville won't be visiting anymore.

Honestly, it looks grim. We have very fair-weather fans.

(05-14-2013 04:59 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 03:09 AM)Crimsonelf Wrote:  It's a money game, for the most part. How one performs on the field can be secondary, yet it is helpful, certainly. Yet if you have the money you should be successful, and UofL and TCU have parlayed their AD budgets into on-field/court success.

UConn almost certainly is attractive b/c they have an AD budget in the 60s mil. range, as did most other schools in the BE (incl. the never made it TCU), but what schools didn't? Cincy & USF.

Plain and simple this is killing the Bearcats. The latest AD budget figures I've seen had UofL at approx. $87 mil. and Cincy at $39.5 mil.... that is simply not going to be good enough in this day and age. That's old C-usa budget numbers.

IDK how the Univ. of Cincy is going to up their budget, but they must do so, and considerably. At least to Pitt levels, which I believe is in the 50s mil. range....

Your right about budgets in some senses and your right that Cincinnati needs to increase it's budget. All the years of football winning, the university did not cash in on it's success. However, the big dollars are relative in a sense that not all schools with larger budgets than Cincinnati are successful in their respective leagues or even outside of their leagues. Look at schools like Wake Forest, Purdue, Indiana many of which can't beat many major schools they play each and every year. Not to mention the fact that schools like PU, IU and Wake are not using their big league dollars appropriately or effectively. One thing many don't quite understand in Louisville is we have had more success in football than Louisville over the past six years, yet we have less than half of the budget as you mentioned 87 to 39. How can we have a better overall record with half of the budget? The problem that the ACC saw in Cincinnati was definately a lack of revenue and lack of scholarships offered in golf, swimming, track and field and baseball has hurt us over time. Whit Babcock has now reinstated scholarships in these areas with Tuberville's donation, we should begin to have more success in these sports too. We also need to start women's softball and men's lacrosse.

Yeah, you've had nice regular seasons the past few years but you've never been able to go cap it off with a good bowl win. Unfortunately, in the Big East, that's how you're remembered. The league itself was so publicly crapped on that you HAD to win your Bowl Games to make noise...especially the BCS games. Cincy went twice and didn't win. Louisville went twice and won twice so to Joe Schmoe we're better. Sure, it's not fair. It's just perception.

(05-13-2013 09:55 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  “I feel sorry for them,” said former UC athletic director Bob Goin, who engineered UC’s move from Conference USA to the Big East in 2003. “They’ll bounce back somewhere, but the only chance they’ve got now is having (the ACC) say we’re better off adding somebody. It does hurt me. I was really proud that our football team was playing in the Orange Bowl and the Sugar Bowl and now the basketball team is going to the NCAA. They have things going. Now we’re back to Memphis coming to town, Tulane coming to town and SMU. The city’s not going to buy into that.”


They better buy it. If they don't, it will push UC down the expansion list. This is not the time to not support your teams. If you don't, someone else will.

We know that. Why do you think UC fans are so worried? It isn't hard to figure out how playing AAC football in a pro town will go and how that will affect future conference options.