Yes, yes, my young apprentices. Feel the hatred, revel in its strength.

Now go, and strike down Indiana, and Cincinnati, and Kansas and MAryland! Carve a path of destruction through the Tournament!

I have foreseen it.

/Palpatine mode off.

(01-23-2013 11:45 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 11:18 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 11:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  It really is funny. They have no idea what they are walking into. We've been playing in the greatest BBall conference ever assembled and they all have been in, at best 3 bid leagues. They forgot that two years ago the team who finished 9th out if 16 teams won the national title beating their beloved butler bulldogs.

This member of the greatest BBall conference ever lost to the Green Bay Phoenix, a .500 level Horizon league team. They've also lost by over 30 (82-49) to Florida.

Sorry, not buying them yet.

It;s a long season my friend. We finish in the top of the Big East every year. Not just have to get up for 1 or 2 big games.

Sorry not buying your wins over Evansville, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa (at least that's who I'm assuming is your team accd to your other posts).

I also can't remember losing to Florida by 30. I don't even remember playing them. Definitely not in the big east sec challenge. There we played uga, USC and uk. I don't recall us ever playing UF since I started following the team during the '99-00' season.

(01-23-2013 11:49 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yes, yes, my young apprentices. Feel the hatred, revel in its strength.

Now go, and strike down Indiana, and Cincinnati, and Kansas and MAryland! Carve a path of destruction through the Tournament!

I have foreseen it.

/Palpatine mode off.

John do you remember us playing UF and losing by 30?

(01-23-2013 11:51 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 11:45 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 11:18 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 11:10 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  It really is funny. They have no idea what they are walking into. We've been playing in the greatest BBall conference ever assembled and they all have been in, at best 3 bid leagues. They forgot that two years ago the team who finished 9th out if 16 teams won the national title beating their beloved butler bulldogs.

This member of the greatest BBall conference ever lost to the Green Bay Phoenix, a .500 level Horizon league team. They've also lost by over 30 (82-49) to Florida.

Sorry, not buying them yet.

It;s a long season my friend. We finish in the top of the Big East every year. Not just have to get up for 1 or 2 big games.

Sorry not buying your wins over Evansville, Southern Illinois and Northern Iowa (at least that's who I'm assuming is your team accd to your other posts).

I also can't remember losing to Florida by 30. I don't even remember playing them. Definitely not in the big east sec challenge. There we played uga, USC and uk. I don't recall us ever playing UF since I started following the team during the '99-00' season.

I'm confused. I think he's referring to Marquette losing this year to UF in a rout. Then again, they've killed A LOT of good teams this year by 20+ (Mizzou, Wiscy, etc) and they look like potential champions.

I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Beat you guys for a NIT title. That's one thing.

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Still have accomplished more than VCU ever will. #7 All-Time wins.

Again....#7! Even with their last decade, still ahead of UCLA, Louisville, Indiana, Texas, etc. I'll take my chances with SJU over VCU every decade. If there's any program that could stand up and potentially dominate this league for years on end, it's Saint John's.

(01-23-2013 12:54 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Still have accomplished more than VCU ever will. #7 All-Time wins....

Again....#7! I'll take my chances with SJU over VCU every decade. If there's any program that could stand up and potentially dominate this league for years on end, it's Saint John's.

But they're already in there....

But what has Dayton or St Louis done to compare with VCU? VCU has more wins last 6 years than either have in the last 45 years.

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

They're resume doesn't compare to most of the C-7, but that's not who they're competing with. If you're only looking at 8 teams, no they don't bump Xavier or Butler.

But who would you put in as No. 10 instead of them?

Using your "they've only gone on one run--ever" criteria?

Creighton hasn't been to a Sweet Sixteen since 1974.
Dayton hasn't been since 1984.
Saint Louis hasn't been to a Sweet Sixteen since 1957.

So who do you want? Richmond? St Joes? Wichita State? UAB? Who?

You keep dumping on VCU, but who do you take instead? And for God's sakes, why?

(01-23-2013 12:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

They're resume doesn't compare to most of the C-7, but that's not who they're competing with. If you're only looking at 8 teams, no they don't bump Xavier or Butler.

But who would you put in as No. 10 instead of them?

Using your "they've only gone on one run--ever" criteria?

Creighton hasn't been to a Sweet Sixteen since 1974.
Dayton hasn't been since 1984.
Saint Louis hasn't been to a Sweet Sixteen since 1957.

So who do you want? Richmond? St Joes? Wichita State? UAB? Who?

You keep dumping on VCU, but who do you take instead? And for God's sakes, why?

Creighton easily, and I'd still pick Dayton and SLU - as all have invested more in their programs than VCU ever has. VCU has ONE fluke run to the second weekend ever! You want us to take VCU because of one reason -a Final 4 and that's it.

I don't worship NCAA tourney success as the end all be all of a team or program's success. My team plays in the Big East and our season doesn't start in March.

(01-23-2013 12:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:54 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't see any way VCU gets left out if they have another big March run. Don't see them left out to include a St Louis or Dayton that have done nowhere near what VCU has done. It would be a MASSIVE mistake I believe.... As was said on a different thread- the new conference has to hit the ground running. can't afford to have 1st few years with only 2-3 NCAA spots and not really go that far. Heck, has to in a lot of ways do better than the fb teams- if we had only 3 spots, while the fb schools had 4 spots- that wouldn't be good for us at all.

Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Still have accomplished more than VCU ever will. #7 All-Time wins....

Again....#7! I'll take my chances with SJU over VCU every decade. If there's any program that could stand up and potentially dominate this league for years on end, it's Saint John's.

But they're already in there....

But what has Dayton or St Louis done to compare with VCU? VCU has more wins last 6 years than either have in the last 45 years.

C'mon Steve, quit the hyperbole.

I would say how VCU has followed up the final 4 run the last 2 years kind of proves it wasn't a fluke.

And- I'd say this is a problem that the conference is going to face- geography. What Marquette/DePaul want would be the schools that he mentions, while the eastern schools would look a lot more favorably at VCU.

(01-23-2013 01:11 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:54 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Considering VCU has only gone on one run...ever, the odds aren't in their favor. If Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Xavier are who they're supposed to be, this league will be more than fine without VCU.

St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Still have accomplished more than VCU ever will. #7 All-Time wins....

Again....#7! I'll take my chances with SJU over VCU every decade. If there's any program that could stand up and potentially dominate this league for years on end, it's Saint John's.

But they're already in there....

But what has Dayton or St Louis done to compare with VCU? VCU has more wins last 6 years than either have in the last 45 years.

C'mon Steve, quit the hyperbole.

That's not hyperbole- it's card hard facts.

I mean- VCU has more wins in the last 6 years in the NCAA than St Louis has EVER had. That's a fact. St Louis has never beaten better than a 7 seed.

(01-23-2013 01:12 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I would say how VCU has followed up the final 4 run the last 2 years kind of proves it wasn't a fluke.

And- I'd say this is a problem that the conference is going to face- geography. What Marquette/DePaul want would be the schools that he mentions, while the eastern schools would look a lot more favorably at VCU.

Actually the eastern schools like GTown want SLU. They wouldn't be the favorite for #12 if most of the C7 didn't want them in.

(01-23-2013 01:08 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  You keep dumping on VCU, but who do you take instead? And for God's sakes, why?

Creighton easily, and I'd still pick Dayton and SLU - as all have invested more in their programs than VCU ever has.

Do you not like VCU's arena? Is that the problem?

ARe you talking about basketball budgets? Because this is from the Syracuse fan's spreadsheet.

Butler $3,924,026
Creighton $4,404,350
Dayton $3,978,866
Gonzaga $6,138,269
Richmond $3,971,226
Saint Louis $3,101,169
St.Joseph's $3,089,503
VCU $3,803,913
Wichita $4,644,724
Xavier $4,707,053

That has VCU spending more than SLU, and effectively the same as Butler or Dayton. Schools can play all kinds of games with these numbers, but they're in the same ballpark.

Quote:VCU has ONE fluke run to the second weekend ever! You want us to take VCU because of one reason -a Final 4 and that's it.

I don't worship NCAA tourney success as the end all be all of a team or program's success. My team plays in the Big East and our season doesn't start in March.
[/quote]

VCU has plenty of regular season success, too. 60% win percentage, a bunch of conference regular season titles. (Sun Belt, CAA).

(01-23-2013 01:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 01:11 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:54 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  St John's? what have they done in the last 10 years? Answer- 1 NCAA spot.....

VCU has 7 units last 2 years and looks like a possible sweet 16 run this year at least. 4 NCAA spots last 6 years- with wins in 3 of those 4 times. 7 wins overall, which is same as Villanova.

And- compared to Dayton(4 NCAA spots last 22 years, 1 win or 6 NCAA wins in last 45 years), or St Louis(6 NCAA spots last 50 years, with only 3 wins)- it's not even close.

Still have accomplished more than VCU ever will. #7 All-Time wins....

Again....#7! I'll take my chances with SJU over VCU every decade. If there's any program that could stand up and potentially dominate this league for years on end, it's Saint John's.

But they're already in there....

But what has Dayton or St Louis done to compare with VCU? VCU has more wins last 6 years than either have in the last 45 years.

C'mon Steve, quit the hyperbole.

That's not hyperbole- it's card hard facts.

I mean- VCU has more wins in the last 6 years in the NCAA than St Louis has EVER had. That's a fact. St Louis has never beaten better than a 7 seed.

You mean tournament wins? You said wins. That's hyperbole. Tournament wins, then yes that's facts.

I think bottom line with VCU- if they go far in the NCAA this year- it's going to be nearly imposible perception wise to leave them out(especially if Dayton and St Louis don't make the tourney).

(01-23-2013 01:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 01:08 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 12:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  You keep dumping on VCU, but who do you take instead? And for God's sakes, why?

Creighton easily, and I'd still pick Dayton and SLU - as all have invested more in their programs than VCU ever has.

Do you not like VCU's arena? Is that the problem?

ARe you talking about basketball budgets? Because this is from the Syracuse fan's spreadsheet.

Butler $3,924,026
Creighton $4,404,350
Dayton $3,978,866
Gonzaga $6,138,269
Richmond $3,971,226
Saint Louis $3,101,169
St.Joseph's $3,089,503
VCU $3,803,913
Wichita $4,644,724
Xavier $4,707,053

That has VCU spending more than SLU, and effectively the same as Butler or Dayton. Schools can play all kinds of games with these numbers, but they're in the same ballpark.

Quote:VCU has ONE fluke run to the second weekend ever! You want us to take VCU because of one reason -a Final 4 and that's it.

I don't worship NCAA tourney success as the end all be all of a team or program's success. My team plays in the Big East and our season doesn't start in March.

VCU has plenty of regular season success, too. 60% win percentage, a bunch of conference regular season titles. (Sun Belt, CAA).
[/quote]

1st - Did your school build an $80 million practice facility? No. Do all those schools have larger arenas and better facilities? Yes. And Dayton and Creighton have been investing in their program long before VCU had their one year - so it's nice to be around for a few years, but they've been doing it for a long time now.

Your CAA/Sun Belt success is cute, but that isn't even in the same universe as the intensity, and fun, that playing in the Big East is. Even before the Big East, we were playing Louisville, Cincy under Huggins, and Memphis.

You want everyone to ignore that more than half of all your NCAA wins came from one tournament that you were lucky to be even invited to. You want us to only look at your one year and ignore everyone else's 50+ years. I get your SLU argument, that's fair, but don't try to push down Creighton. Xavier's never been to a Final 4...does that make your program better? NO! And the same goes for Butler.