(01-20-2013 12:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 09:33 AM)Title Wrote:  Am I the only one that wants 10?

Twelve is too many, but if TV forces it, I guess.

More? Absolutely not

No, me too. The C-7, you, Xavier and VCU. Keep it elite.

Its common sense.

It's brand equity. What are league teams spending money on to secure the name, if they are going to turn around and degrade its value.

FWIW, I've heard a couple times now that Gonzaga is making a big push.

(01-20-2013 02:24 PM)Title Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 12:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 09:33 AM)Title Wrote:  Am I the only one that wants 10?

Twelve is too many, but if TV forces it, I guess.

More? Absolutely not

No, me too. The C-7, you, Xavier and VCU. Keep it elite.

Its common sense.

It's brand equity. What are league teams spending money on to secure the name, if they are going to around and degrade its value.

FWIW, I've heard a couple times now that Gonzaga is making a big push.

Common sense is doing what your TV partners want. Thats common sense. Also we're talking about 12 not 16.

Going to 10 makes it harder to set up an early season conference challenge. It gives TV partners less inventory. Makes the conference tournament smaller. Less of a hold on a region. Gives the conferences below us more of a chance to claim they are on our level.

If given the choice between going to 10 and going to 14, i'd much rather go to 14!

(01-20-2013 11:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:17 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:35 AM)78friar Wrote:  

(01-19-2013 11:19 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-19-2013 11:04 PM)thegalen Wrote:  impossible, but also a terrible idea.

Some people might believe it is a terrible idea but it's not "impossible."

The only way I ever see gonzaga is if their other sports remain in another conference and no other conference is going to agree to do that

Exactly but there are plenty of other possibilities for 14. If you take VCU then Wichita State becomes interesting.

Great rival for Creighton and in basketball crazy Kansas. We could take St Joes and double down in Philly. Plenty of options.

I think the C7 presidents are sour on the "national conference" idea from their time in the Big East and watching that fail. Schools that are not in geographic footprint of the conference will only stay as long as it's convenient. They will build their name and then look for a better geographic option. It happened time and again in the old Big East. Miami, VT, TCU, Boise etc.

Who said national. Wichita State is a great rival for Creighton and we would be foolish to give that up. Philly isn't exactly national.

If we want to be seen as a big boy conference we need to look like one and not like the Horizon league. That means 12 teams minimum and likely 14. Presidents spend too much time looking a short term dollars and not building a vision. If you build for excellence, rivalries and key markets the dollars will come.

(01-20-2013 03:37 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:17 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:35 AM)78friar Wrote:  

(01-19-2013 11:19 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  Some people might believe it is a terrible idea but it's not "impossible."

The only way I ever see gonzaga is if their other sports remain in another conference and no other conference is going to agree to do that

Exactly but there are plenty of other possibilities for 14. If you take VCU then Wichita State becomes interesting.

Great rival for Creighton and in basketball crazy Kansas. We could take St Joes and double down in Philly. Plenty of options.

I think the C7 presidents are sour on the "national conference" idea from their time in the Big East and watching that fail. Schools that are not in geographic footprint of the conference will only stay as long as it's convenient. They will build their name and then look for a better geographic option. It happened time and again in the old Big East. Miami, VT, TCU, Boise etc.

Who said national. Wichita State is a great rival for Creighton and we would be foolish to give that up. Philly isn't exactly national.

If we want to be seen as a big boy conference we need to look like one and not like the Horizon league. That means 12 teams minimum and likely 14. Presidents spend too much time looking a short term dollars and not building a vision. If you build for excellence, rivalries and key markets the dollars will come.

Im talking about Gonzaga.

This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and force the C7's hand. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(01-20-2013 01:15 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 12:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:51 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:48 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  which conference do you think would be "better" for a bb first (or only) school?
i agree there are geographical limits (ie gonzaga) but creighton and wichita are not that much of a stretch if you consider they would be in a conference with st louis marquette and depaul.

Well they fall under the geographic footprint of this league.

Definitely. If Wichita State had the resume, geography wouldn't be a problem. It's eastern Kansas, not California.

If they go on a few deep runs in the near future and Shaka Smart keeps VCU playing at a high level they might force the C7's hand in regards to expansion and going to 14.

St Johns cares about baseball don't they? They should be begging for Wichita State which also brings strong volleyball.

Lastly if you ordered states in terms of basketball passion which are your top 5. My guess is Indiana and Kansas both make the list. As a premier basketball conference we should be in those states.

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and make them worthwhile. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(12-24-2012 09:29 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  This is for texasflood that keeps harping on it in every thread. Read the article, this is also why Aresco and MWC think BYU could give up indy in near future

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ution-plan

I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:37 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:17 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:35 AM)78friar Wrote:  The only way I ever see gonzaga is if their other sports remain in another conference and no other conference is going to agree to do that

Exactly but there are plenty of other possibilities for 14. If you take VCU then Wichita State becomes interesting.

Great rival for Creighton and in basketball crazy Kansas. We could take St Joes and double down in Philly. Plenty of options.

I think the C7 presidents are sour on the "national conference" idea from their time in the Big East and watching that fail. Schools that are not in geographic footprint of the conference will only stay as long as it's convenient. They will build their name and then look for a better geographic option. It happened time and again in the old Big East. Miami, VT, TCU, Boise etc.

Who said national. Wichita State is a great rival for Creighton and we would be foolish to give that up. Philly isn't exactly national.

If we want to be seen as a big boy conference we need to look like one and not like the Horizon league. That means 12 teams minimum and likely 14. Presidents spend too much time looking a short term dollars and not building a vision. If you build for excellence, rivalries and key markets the dollars will come.

Im talking about Gonzaga.

Sorry thought you were responding to my post. I agree Gonzaga is too far away. They should take Hawaii's spot as 12 in the MWC.

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and make them worthwhile. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(12-24-2012 09:29 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  This is for texasflood that keeps harping on it in every thread. Read the article, this is also why Aresco and MWC think BYU could give up indy in near future

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ution-plan

I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

How many of the prospects would be as good if they had to play in a conference with UConn, Cuse, UofL, ND, Cincy, Pitt and WVU? How many NCAA appearances would the C7 have if they played in the A-10, Horizon or MVC? Stupid analogy.

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

I understand what you are saying and it does make sense. Realistically the conference only has 2.5 high level programs right now and may lose leverage if they wait.

However, it still feels risky to me to try and jump too quickly. At a minimum I would hold off making decisions until the end of this season. If the conference wanted an even number of teams, I would go Xavier, Butler, and VCU (possibly with Creighton/Gonzaga or just Creighton instead of VCU). Otherwise I would add Xavier, Butler, VCU, and Creighton and pick from the following based on continued success (including the postseason):

Gonzaga
SLU
Dayton
Wichita State
St. Bonaventure
St. Joseph's
George Mason

And maybe a couple more. Teams that didn't make the first cut. SLU and Dayton would be the closest to getting in (Dayton because of revenue and being basketball crazy, SLU because of investment and fit) to start with, but would need to prove their basketball worth.

The rest would all be programs that would need significant success to push their value up. Gonzaga needs to show that they are good enough to overcome any travel problems. Wichita State needs to overcome problems with fit and geography. The others all probably need to show a willingness to invest and ability to have and sustain success.

(01-20-2013 02:24 PM)Title Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 12:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 09:33 AM)Title Wrote:  Am I the only one that wants 10?

Twelve is too many, but if TV forces it, I guess.

More? Absolutely not

No, me too. The C-7, you, Xavier and VCU. Keep it elite.

Its common sense.

It's brand equity. What are league teams spending money on to secure the name, if they are going to turn around and degrade its value.

FWIW, I've heard a couple times now that Gonzaga is making a big push.

On what basis are the degrading their value? Currently the strength of the big east lies in football schools like Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn. If anything adding more teams maintains the value.

The 7 teams talked about VCU, Butler, SLU, Xavier, Wichita State, Dayton, Creighton would by today's RPI's be a much stronger league than the C7.

(01-20-2013 04:03 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and make them worthwhile. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(12-24-2012 09:29 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  This is for texasflood that keeps harping on it in every thread. Read the article, this is also why Aresco and MWC think BYU could give up indy in near future

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ution-plan

I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

How many of the prospects would be as good if they had to play in a conference with UConn, Cuse, UofL, ND, Cincy, Pitt and WVU? How many NCAA appearances would the C7 have if they played in the A-10, Horizon or MVC? Stupid analogy.

RPI's especially current RPI's are established long before conference play. While I completely respect all the C7 have done historically and the markets they established if you calculated conference RPI just of the C7 it wouldn't look so good. That is before league play.

Right now much of the C7 is living off past fame. Well earned fame but if they try to skim the cream the league could get exposed next year. That possibility is less likely to happen with the 7 mentioned.

I'm sorry, but no one, not the media, not the fans, not the tv partners. not the c7 presidents want or are considering Wichita State. Seriously, not trying to crush your hopes and dreams but there is less than zero chance that happens. Frankly, they haven't earned a right to really even be considered.

(01-20-2013 04:11 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

I understand what you are saying and it does make sense. Realistically the conference only has 2.5 high level programs right now and may lose leverage if they wait.

However, it still feels risky to me to try and jump too quickly. At a minimum I would hold off making decisions until the end of this season. If the conference wanted an even number of teams, I would go Xavier, Butler, and VCU (possibly with Creighton/Gonzaga or just Creighton instead of VCU). Otherwise I would add Xavier, Butler, VCU, and Creighton and pick from the following based on continued success (including the postseason):

Gonzaga
SLU
Dayton
Wichita State
St. Bonaventure
St. Joseph's
George Mason

And maybe a couple more. Teams that didn't make the first cut. SLU and Dayton would be the closest to getting in (Dayton because of revenue and being basketball crazy, SLU because of investment and fit) to start with, but would need to prove their basketball worth.

The rest would all be programs that would need significant success to push their value up. Gonzaga needs to show that they are good enough to overcome any travel problems. Wichita State needs to overcome problems with fit and geography. The others all probably need to show a willingness to invest and ability to have and sustain success.

I don't mess around and I take the 5 top teams: Butler, Xavier, VCU, Creighton and Wichita State. You have to have VCU and Creighton so at that point Wichita State makes sense as a travel partner and balances VCU. Wichita State, Butler and VCU all have strong young coaches we want to keep and the dollars will help maintain.

Then if you want to add Dayton and SLU do so.

(01-20-2013 06:54 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:29 PM)Xbus Wrote:  I'm sorry, but no one, not the media, not the fans, not the tv partners. not the c7 presidents want or are considering Wichita State. Seriously, not trying to crush your hopes and dreams but there is less than zero chance that happens. Frankly, they haven't earned a right to really even be considered.

I am not a Wichita State fan. I look at the strength of the school across multiple programs, its position in Kansas and its rivalry with Creighton and conclude we would be mistaken not to take them. If we prioritize like schools over strong athletic programs and ignore VCU and Wichita State we do so at our own peril.

BTW, this group of Presidents haven't exactly excelled in strategic conference realignment. They F'd up the big east expansion completely so excuse me if I am nervous.

That was the FB schools. We added Marquette and DePaul. Wouldn't you say those were good moves?

(01-20-2013 06:27 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 04:03 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and make them worthwhile. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(12-24-2012 09:29 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  This is for texasflood that keeps harping on it in every thread. Read the article, this is also why Aresco and MWC think BYU could give up indy in near future

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ution-plan

I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

How many of the prospects would be as good if they had to play in a conference with UConn, Cuse, UofL, ND, Cincy, Pitt and WVU? How many NCAA appearances would the C7 have if they played in the A-10, Horizon or MVC? Stupid analogy.

RPI's especially current RPI's are established long before conference play. While I completely respect all the C7 have done historically and the markets they established if you calculated conference RPI just of the C7 it wouldn't look so good. That is before league play.

Right now much of the C7 is living off past fame. Well earned fame but if they try to skim the cream the league could get exposed next year. That possibility is less likely to happen with the 7 mentioned.

Yeah because you guys totally proved you could handle our schedule by playing in the Horizon league.

You guys can get up for a few games a year but try playing 6 ranked teams in a row, two games a week almost everyone in the top 100. Do that year in and year out on the greatest BBall league ever assembled then we'll see who would be exposed.

(01-20-2013 08:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:27 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 04:03 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:41 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  This is coming from a guy that supports Wichita State.

10 teams should be what the league starts with. I don't think that will happen, but I think it is the right decision. The Catholic 7 gains NOTHING from adding teams that aren't top-notch perfect fits right now. If they add a team like SLU and they consistently perform at the bottom of the conference and do not bring their market, then the conference cannot vote them out or get rid of them.

Instead, select the hottest names. Personally, the best 3 are Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga, but I feel that travel considerations all but eliminate Gonzaga. Your next best choice is either VCU or Creighton, but I'd lean VCU because of how hot they are right now.

Then, you wait and see. Moving quickly could doom the conference in the years to come if the correct balance isn't found. In two or three years, you look at which teams have stayed top-notch or become hot names. Maybe SLU goes to the Final Four, or Dayton goes to back-to-back Elite 8s. That is when you add those teams. Not now.

The same applies to any team like a Wichita State that isn't quite in consideration now but might become a hot ticket if they had post-season success. Maybe a Gonzaga Final Four would push them over the hump and make them worthwhile. Eventually, I don't see a problem with 14 teams (maybe more), but right now there are not 7 or even 5 teams that really would impress me if I were making the decision. If I couldn't have Gonzaga, the only teams I really could push for would be Xavier, Butler, Creighton, and VCU.

(12-24-2012 09:29 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  This is for texasflood that keeps harping on it in every thread. Read the article, this is also why Aresco and MWC think BYU could give up indy in near future

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ution-plan

I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

How many of the prospects would be as good if they had to play in a conference with UConn, Cuse, UofL, ND, Cincy, Pitt and WVU? How many NCAA appearances would the C7 have if they played in the A-10, Horizon or MVC? Stupid analogy.

RPI's especially current RPI's are established long before conference play. While I completely respect all the C7 have done historically and the markets they established if you calculated conference RPI just of the C7 it wouldn't look so good. That is before league play.

Right now much of the C7 is living off past fame. Well earned fame but if they try to skim the cream the league could get exposed next year. That possibility is less likely to happen with the 7 mentioned.

Yeah because you guys totally proved you could handle our schedule by playing in the Horizon league.

You guys can get up for a few games a year but try playing 6 ranked teams in a row, two games a week almost everyone in the top 100. Do that year in and year out on the greatest BBall league ever assembled then we'll see who would be exposed.

Too be fair, teams from "mid-major" leagues have easier teams to beat but they have less room for error. A team from a mid-major league has to go 12-6 or better with a very good OOC resume to even be considered for an at-large bid. A team from the Big East or any really good conference has more room for error and can go .500 in conference and get an at-large so I don't think one way is easier than the other.

(01-20-2013 08:30 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:27 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 04:03 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:51 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  I would agree if the C-7 were super strong right now. However realistically they are not. They can't afford to be a 3-4 team league and lose momentum. All the teams we have mentioned: Wichita State, VCU,SLU all have better RPI's than the majority of the C7.

Not meant to be rude but how many of the C-7 would be in the discussion if we just said what are the top 12 teams we need in the league. You are going to have laggards the goal is there are not many in your tournament

How many of the prospects would be as good if they had to play in a conference with UConn, Cuse, UofL, ND, Cincy, Pitt and WVU? How many NCAA appearances would the C7 have if they played in the A-10, Horizon or MVC? Stupid analogy.

RPI's especially current RPI's are established long before conference play. While I completely respect all the C7 have done historically and the markets they established if you calculated conference RPI just of the C7 it wouldn't look so good. That is before league play.

Right now much of the C7 is living off past fame. Well earned fame but if they try to skim the cream the league could get exposed next year. That possibility is less likely to happen with the 7 mentioned.

Yeah because you guys totally proved you could handle our schedule by playing in the Horizon league.

You guys can get up for a few games a year but try playing 6 ranked teams in a row, two games a week almost everyone in the top 100. Do that year in and year out on the greatest BBall league ever assembled then we'll see who would be exposed.

Too be fair, teams from "mid-major" leagues have easier teams to beat but they have less room for error. A team from a mid-major league has to go 12-6 or better with a very good OOC resume to even be considered for an at-large bid. A team from the Big East or any really good conference has more room for error and can go .500 in conference and get an at-large so I don't think one way is easier than the other.

But the level of play allows you to win more games. A 9-9 team in Big East play won the national title 2 years ago.

(01-20-2013 08:20 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:54 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:29 PM)Xbus Wrote:  I'm sorry, but no one, not the media, not the fans, not the tv partners. not the c7 presidents want or are considering Wichita State. Seriously, not trying to crush your hopes and dreams but there is less than zero chance that happens. Frankly, they haven't earned a right to really even be considered.

I am not a Wichita State fan. I look at the strength of the school across multiple programs, its position in Kansas and its rivalry with Creighton and conclude we would be mistaken not to take them. If we prioritize like schools over strong athletic programs and ignore VCU and Wichita State we do so at our own peril.

BTW, this group of Presidents haven't exactly excelled in strategic conference realignment. They F'd up the big east expansion completely so excuse me if I am nervous.

That was the FB schools. We added Marquette and DePaul. Wouldn't you say those were good moves?

The football schools didn't add Tulane. That was the basketball schools without consulting the AD's

(01-20-2013 08:47 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:20 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:54 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:29 PM)Xbus Wrote:  I'm sorry, but no one, not the media, not the fans, not the tv partners. not the c7 presidents want or are considering Wichita State. Seriously, not trying to crush your hopes and dreams but there is less than zero chance that happens. Frankly, they haven't earned a right to really even be considered.

I am not a Wichita State fan. I look at the strength of the school across multiple programs, its position in Kansas and its rivalry with Creighton and conclude we would be mistaken not to take them. If we prioritize like schools over strong athletic programs and ignore VCU and Wichita State we do so at our own peril.

BTW, this group of Presidents haven't exactly excelled in strategic conference realignment. They F'd up the big east expansion completely so excuse me if I am nervous.

That was the FB schools. We added Marquette and DePaul. Wouldn't you say those were good moves?

The football schools didn't add Tulane. That was the basketball schools without consulting the AD's

Oh please, we took enough chit for how the BE went down from the FB schools. The last thing we need is to hear it from a part time Butler fan.

You don't know how things have went down the last ten years.