(12-15-2012 09:42 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  From the Libertarian Party Facebook Page.......

Quote:Meanwhile in an elementary school in Israel...

Ah, yes, still waiting for the Libertarians to stand up for private property rights....for people who don't want people bringing guns onto their property without their consent....

crickets chirping

(12-15-2012 08:24 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 07:59 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Assault weapons shoud be banned outright and handguns should be restricted to home protection and in special circumstances a vehichle.

How could you possibly enforce restricting hand guns to the home?

Laws geared to restricting access and use do nothing to reduce the overall supply of guns in the country.

How do you stop the creeping gun culture. Just like with litter and seatbelts you promote the law via PSAs and law abiding citizens will accept the law over time and maybe within a generation we could stop the madness.

(12-15-2012 09:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Member of the GOA = Not a Libertarian. Also not a supporter of private property rights.

GOA doesn't believe in private property rights. They think that I, as a property owner should not be able to say "no, you can't come onto my property with a firearm". And that includes my parking lot and my business. If you are an employee of mine, you shouldn't be allowed to bring firearms onto my property without my consent (which I'm not giving), including in your car if you park it on my property. I don't care what kind of CCL you have. I don't want guns on my property. And that includes my parking lot.

Your rights end at my property line.

The NRA is very bad. The GOA is insane.

Go on. Show me proof that GOA has advocated for this. Google is calling you a liar. I've talked with Larry Pratt on several occasions and he is very much libertarian like I am. Hell GOA has Ron Paul on their masthead.

(12-15-2012 09:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ah, yes, still waiting for the Libertarians to stand up for private property rights....for people who don't want people bringing guns onto their property without their consent....

crickets chirping

I await proof. Crickets chirping. It is the right of a private property owner to prohibit carrying on their property.

(12-15-2012 10:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  How do you stop the creeping gun culture. Just like with litter and seatbelts you promote the law via PSAs and law abiding citizens will accept the law over time and maybe within a generation we could stop the madness.

I'm drowning in the naivety on this thread. Jesus H. Christ.

YEA A PSA. That's the ticket! That'll work great! Just look how "this is your brain on drugs" and D.A.R.E. have eliminated consumption of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, ........

(12-15-2012 10:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 10:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  How do you stop the creeping gun culture. Just like with litter and seatbelts you promote the law via PSAs and law abiding citizens will accept the law over time and maybe within a generation we could stop the madness.

I'm drowning in the naivety on this thread. Jesus H. Christ.

YEA A PSA. That's the ticket! That'll work great! Just look how "this is your brain on drugs" and D.A.R.E. have eliminated consumption of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, ........

Tobaco use is down, seatbelt usage is up, litter is soooo 1970s. It's a start. whats your plan? Normal people do not require a gun on their person at all times. You will not eliminate the problem but you can change the culture.

(12-15-2012 10:14 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 10:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 10:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  How do you stop the creeping gun culture. Just like with litter and seatbelts you promote the law via PSAs and law abiding citizens will accept the law over time and maybe within a generation we could stop the madness.

I'm drowning in the naivety on this thread. Jesus H. Christ.

YEA A PSA. That's the ticket! That'll work great! Just look how "this is your brain on drugs" and D.A.R.E. have eliminated consumption of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, ........

Tobaco use is down, seatbelt usage is up, litter is soooo 1970s. It's a start. whats your plan? Normal people do not require a gun on their person at all times. You will not eliminate the problem but you can change the culture.

Sig bet time! You can control my signature for a month if you are willing to camp out, unarmed, with a non-stop live streaming smartphone for 72 hours in a neighborhood of my choosing in Detroit.

There are PLENTY of places I flatly refuse to go unarmed. And even if you live in a comparatively safe neighborhood, it still makes sense to be armed if you understand the police cannot possibly stop crime before it happens.

Tobacco use is down because you liberals tax the ever loving **** out of it, which of course way disproportionately effects the poor and middle class, as smoking is a regressive economic behavior. Or are you really going to try and spin your allegedly progressive desires as not being regressive here?

I'd argue seatbelt use is up because damned near every car you drive now won't STFU and stop bonging until you do. That has WAY more to do with it than laws or PSAs.

(12-15-2012 10:07 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 09:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Member of the GOA = Not a Libertarian. Also not a supporter of private property rights.

GOA doesn't believe in private property rights. They think that I, as a property owner should not be able to say "no, you can't come onto my property with a firearm". And that includes my parking lot and my business. If you are an employee of mine, you shouldn't be allowed to bring firearms onto my property without my consent (which I'm not giving), including in your car if you park it on my property. I don't care what kind of CCL you have. I don't want guns on my property. And that includes my parking lot.

Your rights end at my property line.

The NRA is very bad. The GOA is insane.

Go on. Show me proof that GOA has advocated for this. Google is calling you a liar. I've talked with Larry Pratt on several occasions and he is very much libertarian like I am. Hell GOA has Ron Paul on their masthead.

(12-15-2012 09:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ah, yes, still waiting for the Libertarians to stand up for private property rights....for people who don't want people bringing guns onto their property without their consent....

crickets chirping

I await proof. Crickets chirping. It is the right of a private property owner to prohibit carrying on their property.

So you are oppposed to proposed Georgia's legislation mandating restaurant and bar owners to allow CCL holders carrying firearms into their business?

Thoughts:
1) Banning guns would do nothing to have stopped this attack. If the killer couldn't get a gun legally or illegally, he would've used another weapon, maybe a bomb.

2) If you ban guns, you're only disarming the law-abiding and making them easier prey for criminals.

3) If you ban guns, you'll likely make otherwise law-abiding break the law because these individuals will not surrender their arms due to their belief in the constitution.

4) If you ban guns, you'll likely cause a greater rift in this country which might lead to secession.

5) Banning guns doesn't work, look at violent crime in DC and NYC and other liberal paradises.

6) Strong gun rights do help prevent violent crime. Look at Florida which is reaching 1,000,000 active concealed firearms licenses. If guns were really to blame, we'd have a million shoot outs every week in Florida, we don't. Look at Switzerland where every man has a machine gun.



Crazy people and criminals are going to kill other people. It's a fact of life. Stop blaming the means and blame the criminals. If you ban the means, they'll find another means. It's that simple.

(12-14-2012 12:33 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 12:29 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 12:27 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 12:24 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 12:22 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I carry a gun because cops are too heavy

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

You carry a gun because you are affraid of life.

He carries a gun as not to have an encounter that puts him on the losing end, like those kids did.

In other words, I was right. He is affraid of life.

No, he's afraid of losing it.

What's with you lefties? You want unions because you don't want workers to be victims, but then you would disarm the country turning us all all into potetntial victims.

not all liberals hate guns...i have several...carry one everyday.

(12-15-2012 10:43 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So you are oppposed to proposed Georgia's legislation mandating restaurant and bar owners to allow CCL holders carrying firearms into their business?

Unfamiliar with the legislation. But my position is, as long as the business does not accept government money or subsidies in any form ... it is their choice, but their choice must be clearly posted. If they are getting tax dollars, all bets are off.

This whole situation makes me sick to my stomach. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and imagining what she would be experiencing in a situation like this upsets me greatly. It's been mentioned before, but from my perspective, my wife is in a much better position to save not only herself, but her class of 20+ children than a police officer that is 5-7 minutes away. She has already obtained her handgun carry permit, but would never bring a gun to a location where it is legally prohibited, such as a school.

In my mind, I see two scenarios.....

1 - A gunman (with no regard for "gun-free zones", or the lives of others) walks into a school, and starts shooting. As with most educational institutions, as soon as that sound is heard, everything goes on lockdown. My wife, along with other teachers would immediately close all doors, and cover all windows and wait for the police. At this point, said gunman kicks in the door to this 2nd grade classroom, and I know my wife (and many teachers) would do everything they could to physically stop this person, but obviously with very little recourse. Now you have a class full of people, murdered in cold blood.

2 - Same gunman, same lockdown, but if my wife had her weapon, she would at least have a fighting chance to save herself, and her 20+ children.....plus any physical action to disrupt such an evil person's plans.

I think that these scenarios identify the crux of this whole argument. One side sees an inanimate object as evil, instead of the person wielding a particular tool. The other side sees an evil person (gunman), and a good person (teacher), on a more equal playing field, both equipped with the same tools.

Even 4chan got it right

(12-15-2012 10:14 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 10:09 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 10:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  How do you stop the creeping gun culture. Just like with litter and seatbelts you promote the law via PSAs and law abiding citizens will accept the law over time and maybe within a generation we could stop the madness.

I'm drowning in the naivety on this thread. Jesus H. Christ.

YEA A PSA. That's the ticket! That'll work great! Just look how "this is your brain on drugs" and D.A.R.E. have eliminated consumption of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, ........

Tobaco use is down, seatbelt usage is up, litter is soooo 1970s. It's a start. whats your plan? Normal people do not require a gun on their person at all times. You will not eliminate the problem but you can change the culture.

You're not safe from evil, crazed loons in an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. Tell me, where are these places you speak of where people aren't in need of self preservation?

The right has won on this issue. You can't ban weapons. Only thing you can do is arm yourself in case trouble knocks on your door.

The only law that has ever had a significant impact in reducing gun violence has been concealed carry laws. Fact.

There's a reason loons like to go to schools. They have those pretty "Gun Free Zone" posters up, so they know there is zero chance of anyone shooting back.

How many shootings have there been at gun stores? Or in the south where guns are allowed?

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

(12-15-2012 01:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The right has won on this issue. You can't ban weapons. Only thing you can do is arm yourself in case trouble knocks on your door.

Its neither right nor left. Its just logic. There are reasonable and sound arguments to limiting access to weapons through the legal system in line with our constitutional rights. But the idea that constraining the law-abiding is somehow making us safer from the non-law-abiding makes zero sense.

(12-15-2012 03:30 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 01:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The right has won on this issue. You can't ban weapons. Only thing you can do is arm yourself in case trouble knocks on your door.

Its neither right nor left. Its just logic. There are reasonable and sound arguments to limiting access to weapons through the legal system in line with our constitutional rights. But the idea that constraining the law-abiding is somehow making us safer from the non-law-abiding makes zero sense.

+3

Do any of you know how relatively easy it is to make an "assault" rifle win a basic machine shop? We going to ban lathes next?

First, every school in America should have 1/3rd of their teachers armed (concealed carry) and trained for this situation. (Deterrent)

Second, every school in America should be secured. No one should be able to walk in without going to the office first and the people there have to be vigilant and not just pass people through. (Prevention)

Third, every classroom door should be locked from the inside, requiring someone inside to open it or an administrator access key.

Fourth, from 12 of age to graduation all students should basic annual psychological evaluations from the school. This would expose bullying, potential criminal activities, depression and a lot of other potential future problems.

Fifth, if your firearms are used in a crime and its shown that you didn't do your best to secure them; then you should face felony charges with a minimal 10 year sentence.

Sixth, we all have to realize that no matter what we do, we'll never be able to prevent these things from happening from time to time. Norway doesn't exactly have the most liberal of gun control laws, but that psyco was still able to shoot up that summer camp last year. If someone is a nut you won't be able to stop them if you don't know about them beforehand.

(12-15-2012 01:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The right has won on this issue. You can't ban weapons. Only thing you can do is arm yourself in case trouble knocks on your door.

Then when trouble crosses the threshold blow him away