(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  GUYS PLEASE!!


Let's take a break from this for the day and just mourn the loss of innocent lives in a terrible tragedy. We can score political points next week.

I respectfully disagree. I think some justifiable statements of "Enough already" are justified.

Everytime this happens, the NRA/GOP says, don't politicize this tragedy (after the Amish school shooting, Colombine, the Colorado Batman shooting, add any number of events here) and then fights any attempt to do anything about this.

If this had been the first attack of this type, sure. But this is not the first time this has happened. Its not the first time its happened...THIS WEEK.

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:23 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This attack, while particularly awful, isn't inconsistent with the massive number of multiple fatality shootings with high capacity firearms.

Yes, high capacity magazines played such a crucial role in this guy's ability to shootup an elementary school filled with unarmed children.

Actually, the high capacity angle certainly made it easier for him to kill more people.

The United States killed a lot of people in WW2 using a rifle that held 8 rounds. Doesn't take that long to change magazines or insert a stripper clip especially when the people you are shooting at aren't firing back. Naive once again comes to mind.

Multiple orgasms for the left this week.

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I say that an armed society is a polite society as long as it's the right people that have most of the weapons.

But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

What gun laws? Our gun law legislation is as follows...all gun laws are unenforced or null at gun shows.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Multiple orgasms for the left this week.

Easily worst post of the day.

(12-14-2012 02:38 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:23 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This attack, while particularly awful, isn't inconsistent with the massive number of multiple fatality shootings with high capacity firearms.

Yes, high capacity magazines played such a crucial role in this guy's ability to shootup an elementary school filled with unarmed children.

Actually, the high capacity angle certainly made it easier for him to kill more people.

The United States killed a lot of people in WW2 using a rifle that held 8 rounds. Doesn't take that long to change magazines or insert a stripper clip especially when the people you are shooting at aren't firing back. Naive once again comes to mind.

Sure, but at least he would have had to stop shooting more often to change them, providing more opportunities for others to physically intervene or to escape.

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I say that an armed society is a polite society as long as it's the right people that have most of the weapons.

But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  GUYS PLEASE!!


Let's take a break from this for the day and just mourn the loss of innocent lives in a terrible tragedy. We can score political points next week.

I'll 2nd to an extent. The issue should be discussed, but I'm too sick at my stomach to do that right now.

(12-14-2012 02:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Multiple orgasms for the left this week.

Easily worst post of the day.

but probably the most truthful

(12-14-2012 02:45 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I say that an armed society is a polite society as long as it's the right people that have most of the weapons.

But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

How about making our current laws enforceable? Instead of creating a loophole that makes virtually all gun laws null and void?

Are you aware of how the gun shows work?

What we are doing now is not working. Its time to try something else. And to those who talk about freedom, what about a kids freedom to go to school without some loon shooting them? what about the freedom to go to the mall without some suicidal loon shooting you?

Amish School Shooting, Colombine, Colorado Batman Massacre, Portland Oregon Town and Country Mall, Virginia Tech, Connecticut elementary school..... How many people's freedoms have been infringed on by these actions? At some point, there needs to be some additional measures taken.

(12-14-2012 02:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:38 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:23 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This attack, while particularly awful, isn't inconsistent with the massive number of multiple fatality shootings with high capacity firearms.

Yes, high capacity magazines played such a crucial role in this guy's ability to shootup an elementary school filled with unarmed children.

Actually, the high capacity angle certainly made it easier for him to kill more people.

The United States killed a lot of people in WW2 using a rifle that held 8 rounds. Doesn't take that long to change magazines or insert a stripper clip especially when the people you are shooting at aren't firing back. Naive once again comes to mind.

Sure, but at least he would have had to stop shooting more often to change them, providing more opportunities for others to physically intervene or to escape.

How do you know when he stopped to reload versus stopped to find a new target?

(12-14-2012 02:45 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:08 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I say that an armed society is a polite society as long as it's the right people that have most of the weapons.

But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

Does this go on in other countries with stricter gun laws? The problem is that it's now too big to stop. For every 1 American citizen, there's 1 firearm in the US.

(12-14-2012 02:58 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:45 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

Does this go on in other countries with stricter gun laws? The problem is that it's now too big to stop. For every 1 American citizen, there's 1 firearm in the US.

There are mass school shooting and attacks in other nations with much stricter gun laws. But they are much more rare. And in some of these countries, especially Canada, have a lot of legal private gun ownership. For me, I think the real issue is that there is no effective regulation of guns in this nation. None.

(12-14-2012 02:58 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Does this go on in other countries with stricter gun laws? The problem is that it's now too big to stop. For every 1 American citizen, there's 1 firearm in the US.

You've heard of Mexico, right?

(12-14-2012 02:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:45 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  But the NRA is attempting to make sure that there is no effective check to ensure that the 'right people' have most of the weapons.

Here's what could be done, without infringing on anyones 2nd Amendment rights.

1) An end to 'no-check' gun sales. If people want to privately sell a weapon, the purchaser and buyer can go to the police station, where both their records are checked. Increased oversight of gun shows and other legal points where guns are sold.

2) A 48 hour cooling off period for purchases. The liberal bastion of Alabama (!) has this law

3) Increased ATF funding for more agents to ensure that straw sales laws are more vigorously enforced.

4) A ban or tax on high capacity clips. Or if that isn't constitutionally feasable, a requirement to register such guns.

5) Increased criminal penalties for those breaking firearm access laws.

If you want a gun - be my guest! If you want to sell your gun (or enable those that do) to someone who may be insane, a straw purchaser, or a criminal, then unfortunately its all our business.

With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

How about making our current laws enforceable? Instead of creating a loophole that makes virtually all gun laws null and void?

Are you aware of how the gun shows work?

What we are doing now is not working. Its time to try something else. And to those who talk about freedom, what about a kids freedom to go to school without some loon shooting them? what about the freedom to go to the mall without some suicidal loon shooting you?

Amish School Shooting, Colombine, Colorado Batman Massacre, Portland Oregon Town and Country Mall, Virginia Tech, Connecticut elementary school..... How many people's freedoms have been infringed on by these actions? At some point, there needs to be some additional measures taken.

Make as many laws as you want Tom and you still will have these incidents. If someone is willing to break the laws we have against murder then I doubt they will have misgivings about breaking gun laws.

(12-14-2012 02:57 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:38 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:23 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  Yes, high capacity magazines played such a crucial role in this guy's ability to shootup an elementary school filled with unarmed children.

Actually, the high capacity angle certainly made it easier for him to kill more people.

The United States killed a lot of people in WW2 using a rifle that held 8 rounds. Doesn't take that long to change magazines or insert a stripper clip especially when the people you are shooting at aren't firing back. Naive once again comes to mind.

Sure, but at least he would have had to stop shooting more often to change them, providing more opportunities for others to physically intervene or to escape.

How do you know when he stopped to reload versus stopped to find a new target?

This is ridiculous. If you wish to opine that the fact that the killer had access to a large capacity assault rifle versus a handgun or a hunting rifle had no impact on the number of fatalities, go right ahead.

(12-14-2012 02:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:38 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:23 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 01:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This attack, while particularly awful, isn't inconsistent with the massive number of multiple fatality shootings with high capacity firearms.

Yes, high capacity magazines played such a crucial role in this guy's ability to shootup an elementary school filled with unarmed children.

Actually, the high capacity angle certainly made it easier for him to kill more people.

The United States killed a lot of people in WW2 using a rifle that held 8 rounds. Doesn't take that long to change magazines or insert a stripper clip especially when the people you are shooting at aren't firing back. Naive once again comes to mind.

Sure, but at least he would have had to stop shooting more often to change them, providing more opportunities for others to physically intervene or to escape.

In this horrific instance, do you really think that those 5 year olds would have been able to "physically intervene" or "escape".

Those that have no respect for the law (obviously all of these random shoot-um ups happenings), won't suddenly say "Gee, guns are illegal - I won't get one so as to not break the law."

Make all the gun laws you want - killers will get them just as easily as dope smokers get weed. In fact, most lawbreakers that carry weapons DIDN'T get them legally now.

Only the normal law abiding citizens will be gunless. The killers, etc. - they'll still have guns.

(12-14-2012 03:03 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:45 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:36 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  With all the gun laws currently on the books do you really think more laws would prevent this?
If a person is insane enough to desire to shoot up a school do you honestly think he will change his mind after a waiting/cooling off period?

Bottom line if someone wants to do something like this they will find a way to do it. If not with guns then maybe they will mix diesal fuel and fertilizer to make a bomb. People will be just as dead whether blown up or shot.

Naive is the only description I can think of for you solutions.

So your response is..."lets do nothing and continue to allow everyone, including the insane, criminals, and straw purchasers to purchase assault rifles in unlimited quantities with no enforcement at any gun show"? Got it.

How many more of these events have to happen before you see the need to actually have some common sense gun laws? Give me the number, because unfortunately, if we continue to do nothing, eventually I'm afraid we're going to hit that number.

You seem to think imposing more laws will deter lawbreakers. Does that really seem logical?

How about making our current laws enforceable? Instead of creating a loophole that makes virtually all gun laws null and void?

Are you aware of how the gun shows work?

What we are doing now is not working. Its time to try something else. And to those who talk about freedom, what about a kids freedom to go to school without some loon shooting them? what about the freedom to go to the mall without some suicidal loon shooting you?

Amish School Shooting, Colombine, Colorado Batman Massacre, Portland Oregon Town and Country Mall, Virginia Tech, Connecticut elementary school..... How many people's freedoms have been infringed on by these actions? At some point, there needs to be some additional measures taken.

Make as many laws as you want Tom and you still will have these incidents. If someone is willing to break the laws we have against murder then I doubt they will have misgivings about breaking gun laws.

Then the question should be ACCESS to guns. That's my whole point. There are common sense regulations that could mitigate ACCESS by the insane, criminals, or straw purchasers to guns.

Why not just get rid of the ACCESS to unchecked gun purchases through the gun show loophole?

Why not just get reduce the ACCESS to assault rifles/semi-automatic rifles/high capacity clips by either taxation, registration, waiting periods, etc.?

What we are doing now isn't working.

When all weapons worldwide are destroyed ill surrender mine. Until then leave me alone and don't pretend to assume criminals obey gun laws. When Lord Zero brings up the assault weapon ban I'm going out to buy several, immediately. You leftist loons never let a tragedy go to waste do you? This is just another radical left wing nut funded by Soros in an attempt to reinstitute an expired ban.


Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

(12-14-2012 03:03 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 02:58 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Does this go on in other countries with stricter gun laws? The problem is that it's now too big to stop. For every 1 American citizen, there's 1 firearm in the US.

You've heard of Mexico, right?

Just like the US it's now too big to stop in Mexico.