(05-04-2012 09:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:18 PM)texasorange Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:08 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  We were in a league without FSU before...we can do it again if we have to.

I don't want north/south divisions because we would play less in NC and they are the closest for travel and recruits

But if we are in a conference minus FSU & Clemson; how good a conference is it overall? The ACC as it is in it's present form must be preserved.

A conference minus FSU and Clemson............but adding Vanderbilt and Notre Dame=better!

With as much emphasis Vandy puts on academics they probably don't want to associate with a school who commits academic fraud.

Of course without FSU & Clemson you might have a shot at winning the conference in football.

Except you would still have to get past VT, GT, Wake, BC, Miami,& NCSU.

Vanderbilt...

You guys talk a lot of crap about folks that discuss various realignment scenarios while at the same time having discussions that include Vandy leaving the SEC for the ACC.

Really?

(05-04-2012 11:40 PM)texasorange Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:18 PM)texasorange Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:08 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  We were in a league without FSU before...we can do it again if we have to.

I don't want north/south divisions because we would play less in NC and they are the closest for travel and recruits

But if we are in a conference minus FSU & Clemson; how good a conference is it overall? The ACC as it is in it's present form must be preserved.

A conference minus FSU and Clemson............but adding Vanderbilt and Notre Dame=better!

1) Notre Dame isn't coming in my lifetime.
2) Vanderbilt doesn't help with the television contract and is hardly a decent replacement for either Clemson or FSU.

It's a UNC fan. Yes, all of them that have figured out how to use the internet are like this.

(05-04-2012 02:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  We would be deeply displeased if that were the conference alignment. We would lose 2 of the 3 teams we actually care about playing in football, and our primary rival.

If we do switch conferences I hope GT knows that many FSU people want you to come along with us. We enjoyed the matchups prior to the ACC expanding to 12 and aren't fond of the ACC ending them. But from what little I've read lately on GT boards it doesn't seem like many are actually interested in the move.

IIRC, the Big 12 does have the rights to the name Big 14 (and Big 16?).

Anyone who thinks the ACC would actually be better without FSU & Clemson is foolish. It wouldn't be, even if Notre Dame joined (which is so unlikely we may as well forget about it). At most, Notre Dame would make up for one of those two.

What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm a Hokie fan but I don't care what's best for Va Tech if it means destroying the ACC. VT has never had it so good as since joining and part of the reason for that has been FSU and Clemson. UNC fans need to acknowledge that as well.

(05-05-2012 05:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Anyone who thinks the ACC would actually be better without FSU & Clemson is foolish. It wouldn't be, even if Notre Dame joined (which is so unlikely we may as well forget about it). At most, Notre Dame would make up for one of those two.

What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm a Hokie fan but I don't care what's best for Va Tech if it means destroying the ACC. VT has never had it so good as since joining and part of the reason for that has been FSU and Clemson. UNC fans need to acknowledge that as well.

So you're suggesting on getting rid of equal revenue sharing for some system that benefits FSU and Clemson because they are special? That's the only thing I think you could actually suggest considering the new TV deal at some mystery amount has yet to be signed for at least a year or so.

I don't know if these rumors are true or not. I am not putting much stock into them personally. However, if there is smoke coming out of FSU and Clemson about a possible move, then it is an interesting turn of events. I think the more likely reason for the smoke is to leverage their desirability in order to 1) extract more money from ESPN in order to put the ACC on a more competitive footing and/or 2) attempt to shif the power structure away from North Carolina.

I find it hard to believe that ESPN would be content to stand back and let the ACC become a weakend product that they own the exclusive rights to while they share the benefits of the Big12 with other networks. I'm not a TV exec, so I don't know what the numbers would be, but I think it is logical to have consolidate as much of the eastern 3rd of the U.S. as possible. Making the SEC and ACC strong would give a network 2 conferences that would span from New England to Florida. I can't see ESPN wanting to see that crumble in favor of seeing a mid-western and Texas conference flourish. I think there is more money to be made in the east. JMO.

(05-05-2012 05:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Anyone who thinks the ACC would actually be better without FSU & Clemson is foolish. It wouldn't be, even if Notre Dame joined (which is so unlikely we may as well forget about it). At most, Notre Dame would make up for one of those two.

What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.
I'm a Hokie fan but I don't care what's best for Va Tech if it means destroying the ACC. VT has never had it so good as since joining and part of the reason for that has been FSU and Clemson. UNC fans need to acknowledge that as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by this paragraph. It could be interpreted a number of ways. But as a former BE school, you should know that throwing money to Clemson and FSU to get them to stay - if this rumor has any merit - is not the answer in the long run. It didn't work for Miami when it was at the top of its game right before it left the BE in 2004. Now if you are talking about reconfiguring divisions in order to help FSU and Clemson increase the likelihoods of selling out their own stadiums, then that may be a reasonable discussion. Also, it may be reasonable if the answer is to break up the power concentrated in North Carolina too.

In the end, we will not see much clarity until we see what the new ACC TV deal looks like.

(05-05-2012 07:10 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  So you're suggesting on getting rid of equal revenue sharing for some system that benefits FSU and Clemson because they are special? That's the only thing I think you could actually suggest considering the new TV deal at some mystery amount has yet to be signed for at least a year or so.

I never suggested unequal revenue sharing - that came out of FSU. What I would suggest is that right now there is a very unequal cost distribution. Why is it that the 2 Northernmost schools - BC and Syracuse - are in the same division with Clemson & FSU, while UNC currently never has to travel past Virginia (and under the new Coastal would only have to go as far as Pennsylvania once every other year)? So the ACC is already unequal, even if the revenue isn't.

(05-05-2012 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm not sure what you mean by this paragraph. It could be interpreted a number of ways. But as a former BE school, you should know that throwing money to Clemson and FSU to get them to stay - if this rumor has any merit - is not the answer in the long run. It didn't work for Miami when it was at the top of its game right before it left the BE in 2004. Now if you are talking about reconfiguring divisions in order to help FSU and Clemson increase the likelihoods of selling out their own stadiums, then that may be a reasonable discussion. Also, it may be reasonable if the answer is to break up the power concentrated in North Carolina too.

In the end, we will not see much clarity until we see what the new ACC TV deal looks like.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a Miami Big East-like deal. I would recommend that the ACC worry less about "fair" and more about profit when it comes to divisions and scheduling. And little things like letting Clemson, FSU, and GT schedule an FCS team in week 12 so they can be on the same footing as their SEC opponents in week 13. I think this is the kind of thing most Clemson & FSU fans mean when they say that the ACC doesn't seem to be committed to football.

and yes, I think it's high time the ACC replace its commissioner with one who is not a UNC alum.

(05-05-2012 07:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 07:10 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  So you're suggesting on getting rid of equal revenue sharing for some system that benefits FSU and Clemson because they are special? That's the only thing I think you could actually suggest considering the new TV deal at some mystery amount has yet to be signed for at least a year or so.

I never suggested unequal revenue sharing - that came out of FSU. What I would suggest is that right now there is a very unequal cost distribution. Why is it that the 2 Northernmost schools - BC and Syracuse - are in the same division with Clemson & FSU, while UNC currently never has to travel past Virginia (and under the new Coastal would only have to go as far as Pennsylvania once every other year)? So the ACC is already unequal, even if the revenue isn't.

(05-05-2012 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm not sure what you mean by this paragraph. It could be interpreted a number of ways. But as a former BE school, you should know that throwing money to Clemson and FSU to get them to stay - if this rumor has any merit - is not the answer in the long run. It didn't work for Miami when it was at the top of its game right before it left the BE in 2004. Now if you are talking about reconfiguring divisions in order to help FSU and Clemson increase the likelihoods of selling out their own stadiums, then that may be a reasonable discussion. Also, it may be reasonable if the answer is to break up the power concentrated in North Carolina too.

In the end, we will not see much clarity until we see what the new ACC TV deal looks like.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a Miami Big East-like deal. I would recommend that the ACC worry less about "fair" and more about profit when it comes to divisions and scheduling. And little things like letting Clemson, FSU, and GT schedule an FCS team in week 12 so they can be on the same footing as their SEC opponents in week 13. I think this is the kind of thing most Clemson & FSU fans mean when they say that the ACC doesn't seem to be committed to football.

and yes, I think it's high time the ACC replace its commissioner with one who is not a UNC alum.

I completely understand and have absolutely no problem with this. The winning candidate should come from somewhere outside the conference in the interest of conference stability.

(05-05-2012 07:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 07:10 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  So you're suggesting on getting rid of equal revenue sharing for some system that benefits FSU and Clemson because they are special? That's the only thing I think you could actually suggest considering the new TV deal at some mystery amount has yet to be signed for at least a year or so.

I never suggested unequal revenue sharing - that came out of FSU. What I would suggest is that right now there is a very unequal cost distribution. Why is it that the 2 Northernmost schools - BC and Syracuse - are in the same division with Clemson & FSU, while UNC currently never has to travel past Virginia (and under the new Coastal would only have to go as far as Pennsylvania once every other year)? So the ACC is already unequal, even if the revenue isn't.

(05-05-2012 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm not sure what you mean by this paragraph. It could be interpreted a number of ways. But as a former BE school, you should know that throwing money to Clemson and FSU to get them to stay - if this rumor has any merit - is not the answer in the long run. It didn't work for Miami when it was at the top of its game right before it left the BE in 2004. Now if you are talking about reconfiguring divisions in order to help FSU and Clemson increase the likelihoods of selling out their own stadiums, then that may be a reasonable discussion. Also, it may be reasonable if the answer is to break up the power concentrated in North Carolina too.

In the end, we will not see much clarity until we see what the new ACC TV deal looks like.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a Miami Big East-like deal. I would recommend that the ACC worry less about "fair" and more about profit when it comes to divisions and scheduling. And little things like letting Clemson, FSU, and GT schedule an FCS team in week 12 so they can be on the same footing as their SEC opponents in week 13. I think this is the kind of thing most Clemson & FSU fans mean when they say that the ACC doesn't seem to be committed to football.

and yes, I think it's high time the ACC replace its commissioner with one who is not a UNC alum.

The three previous commissioners came from Wake Forest, Maryland and Dook. I would imagine that the next commissioner will come from a member institution too. BTW it's ESPN that frowns upon the FCS opponents in week 12, it dilutes the conference inventory. The beef with the scheduling issue should be laid at the feet of TV, not the conference office.

(05-05-2012 07:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 07:10 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  So you're suggesting on getting rid of equal revenue sharing for some system that benefits FSU and Clemson because they are special? That's the only thing I think you could actually suggest considering the new TV deal at some mystery amount has yet to be signed for at least a year or so.

I never suggested unequal revenue sharing - that came out of FSU. What I would suggest is that right now there is a very unequal cost distribution. Why is it that the 2 Northernmost schools - BC and Syracuse - are in the same division with Clemson & FSU, while UNC currently never has to travel past Virginia (and under the new Coastal would only have to go as far as Pennsylvania once every other year)? So the ACC is already unequal, even if the revenue isn't.

(05-05-2012 07:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

Quote:What needs to happen now is all members of the ACC need to eat a slice of humble pie, admit that we need each other to survive, then sit down together and figure out what's best for the CONFERENCE, not just for one school.

I'm not sure what you mean by this paragraph. It could be interpreted a number of ways. But as a former BE school, you should know that throwing money to Clemson and FSU to get them to stay - if this rumor has any merit - is not the answer in the long run. It didn't work for Miami when it was at the top of its game right before it left the BE in 2004. Now if you are talking about reconfiguring divisions in order to help FSU and Clemson increase the likelihoods of selling out their own stadiums, then that may be a reasonable discussion. Also, it may be reasonable if the answer is to break up the power concentrated in North Carolina too.

In the end, we will not see much clarity until we see what the new ACC TV deal looks like.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a Miami Big East-like deal. I would recommend that the ACC worry less about "fair" and more about profit when it comes to divisions and scheduling. And little things like letting Clemson, FSU, and GT schedule an FCS team in week 12 so they can be on the same footing as their SEC opponents in week 13. I think this is the kind of thing most Clemson & FSU fans mean when they say that the ACC doesn't seem to be committed to football.

and yes, I think it's high time the ACC replace its commissioner with one who is not a UNC alum.

One way around the Week 12 dilemma that could assist in Week 13 is to pair the strong team v. one of the weaker teams in the division. EX: #1 in each division would be paired with #6 or #7 in their division in Week 12. Granted, this is premised on the "Way to early" rankings of each division when the TV schedules are set, but this already occurs so that TV can schedule some compelling match-ups every week.

Hokie Mark, you get it. Many ACC fans don't despite the obvious and that's their prerogative. Their schools need to do what's best for them and FSU needs to do what's best for us. If that means parting ways, so be it. Can't let the ACC stand in the way of our goals/progress.

(05-05-2012 11:23 AM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  Hokie Mark, you get it. Many ACC fans don't despite the obvious and that's their prerogative. Their schools need to do what's best for them and FSU needs to do what's best for us. If that means parting ways, so be it. Can't let the ACC stand in the way of our goals/progress.

I can't fault FSU if they feel its the right thing to do. But I will ask, even if the money is right, is the Big XII the best situation for FSU after seeing the defections the past 2 years? While the ACC may not be perfect for FSU or possibly even Pitt, but in the grander scheme of things, is the Big XII better? If the answers are indeed yes, then you must seek the Big XII as a long term home.

(05-05-2012 10:36 AM)XLance Wrote:  The three previous commissioners came from Wake Forest, Maryland and Dook. I would imagine that the next commissioner will come from a member institution too. BTW it's ESPN that frowns upon the FCS opponents in week 12, it dilutes the conference inventory. The beef with the scheduling issue should be laid at the feet of TV, not the conference office.

The ACC allows it to happen. Period.

It's the ACC way to do things. Instead of giving ACC schools the best shot at beating their SEC in-state rivals and LEGITIMATELY increasing the perception and revenue of the conference, the ACC prefers to take the guaranteed money, even if in the long-run it leads to less revenue, and sacrifices some of its best football programs. That's bull. We play AT Maryland this year the weekend before the UF game. That will make 3 times in the last 5 years we've played on the road the weekend before UF. This year they have Jacksonville State at home. Last year was Furman at home. The year before was another FCS at home. In 2009 it was a bad FIU at home. In 2008 it was The Citadel at home. I think you get the picture.

That's just one of the myriad of things the ACC can't do right with the schedule. How is it the ACC doesn't announce the upcoming season's schedule until only 6ish months before the season? Other conferences know most of their dates well in advance of 6 months. There is NO ORDER to the ACC schedule. FSU plays Clemson and Miami in a different part of the season EVERY year. Make it standardized. If ESPN cries about it HAVE SOME BALLS and tell them to piss off. SEC schools always know that certain weeks of the season they will be playing certain teams.

FSU opens with 4-straight home games this season. That's awful. We scheduled the first two on our own but the ACC scheduled the next two. We aren't located in a major metropolitan area. Our fans must drive quite a ways to get to Tallahassee and the ACC goes ahead and schedules 4 home games in a row to start the year? There aren't a whole lot of families that can make a 5-hour trip one way 4 weekends in a row. That's going to take it's toll on attendance, and in turn, revenue.

Look at the Thursday night games as another example. FSU's played on a Saturday and then had to play on the road that very next Thursday several times. I'm sure we're not the only ones. How's that fair for the away team? Neither team should be playing on short rest like that for a NATIONAL BROADCAST. PUT YOUR BEST PRODUCT ON THE FIELD, ACC! Neither team should have the weekend off while the other one played on the previous Satuday, either. Pretty sure that's happened before.

The ACC just doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it, or just doesn't care.

(05-05-2012 10:47 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  One way around the Week 12 dilemma that could assist in Week 13 is to pair the strong team v. one of the weaker teams in the division. EX: #1 in each division would be paired with #6 or #7 in their division in Week 12. Granted, this is premised on the "Way to early" rankings of each division when the TV schedules are set, but this already occurs so that TV can schedule some compelling match-ups every week.

Not a fan of this. The Atlantic is too hard to predict who the "bad" teams will be. The Coastal is obvious: It's Duke.

It's more important, imo, that the ACC schools facing SEC teams for that 12th game have an easier 11th game than ACC schools facing other ACC schools for game 12. It doesn't do the conference as much harm as losing marquee OOC matchups.

Just set up the schedule so the best teams that don't have season-ending SEC rivals play each other for game 11. Then do your UNC/NC State, VT/UVA and Miami/whomever pairings to end the year so that if FSU, Clemson or GT are on the road and potentially on CBS (fyi: they're not all road games one year, all home the next), ESPN still has decent ACC matchups to air.

(05-05-2012 11:57 AM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 10:47 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  One way around the Week 12 dilemma that could assist in Week 13 is to pair the strong team v. one of the weaker teams in the division. EX: #1 in each division would be paired with #6 or #7 in their division in Week 12. Granted, this is premised on the "Way to early" rankings of each division when the TV schedules are set, but this already occurs so that TV can schedule some compelling match-ups every week.

Not a fan of this. The Atlantic is too hard to predict who the "bad" teams will be. The Coastal is obvious: It's Duke.

It's more important, imo, that the ACC schools facing SEC teams for that 12th game have an easier 11th game than ACC schools facing other ACC schools for game 12. It doesn't do the conference as much harm as losing marquee OOC matchups.

Just set up the schedule so the best teams that don't have season-ending SEC rivals play each other for game 11. Then do your UNC/NC State, VT/UVA and Miami/whomever pairings to end the year so that if FSU, Clemson or GT are on the road and potentially on CBS (fyi: they're not all road games one year, all home the next), ESPN still has decent ACC matchups to air.

I can concur with statement one.

Statement two is merely a modification of my statement, not really a problem. Simply apply what I said to week 11 or even schedule week 11 as a bye for one team each year.

(05-05-2012 11:29 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 11:23 AM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  Hokie Mark, you get it. Many ACC fans don't despite the obvious and that's their prerogative. Their schools need to do what's best for them and FSU needs to do what's best for us. If that means parting ways, so be it. Can't let the ACC stand in the way of our goals/progress.

I can't fault FSU if they feel its the right thing to do. But I will ask, even if the money is right, is the Big XII the best situation for FSU after seeing the defections the past 2 years? While the ACC may not be perfect for FSU or possibly even Pitt, but in the grander scheme of things, is the Big XII better? If the answers are indeed yes, then you must seek the Big XII as a long term home.

It is the right thing to do if the money is right. If the money is right the Big 12 is better. That's all there is to it. It's one thing to generate less conference revenue than some of our SEC rivals/competitors. As long as the deficit isn't huge and isn't expanding we can handle it. It's another thing ENTIRELY to be losing money to Northwestern, Minnesota, Washington State, Iowa State, Oregon State, Kansas State, Ole Miss and the like or to have schools like UF, UGA, Bama, LSU and Auburn running away from us in the money-game. THOSE latter schools are the ones that FSU is competing with. Those are not the schools most of the ACC is competing with. It's simply insulting to have the former list of schools making more than us. When we joined the ACC, the ACC made the most money. Now it makes the least.

If the Big 12 gets $19M/year/school with just 10 members and if the other 3 major conferences are all sitting at $20M+, the ACC can't come in at $17-18M. That crap just won't cut it. It would have to be higher than that. Especially when the ACC is poised to bring in less playoff money than those other conferences.

There are some current/future ACC schools I would love to bring to the Big 12 with us IF this comes about. None of them are located in NC. I admit would miss the Duke and UNC basketball games but if we are making millions more in the Big 12 and can renovate our arena I think I'll get over it pretty quickly. I would really love to have Clemson, Miami and GT come along if a move is made. In the north obviously VT would be a great team to have. I think the Pitt/WVU rivalry could add great value and I'm a big fan of the DC/MD recruiting area so UMD would be on my list as well. Unfortunately, if all of those schools wanted to come, one would be left out. But it's probably doubtful all would want to go anyways if this all comes about. Everyone's gotta do what they feel is best.

If the ACC regains 3rd tier rights. If it can start a network. If overall revenue is on par with the other major conferences. If the playoff includes 3 conference champs and only 1 at-large. If the ACC switches the divisions for BC and GT. We probably stick around. However, a Big 12 schedule, if expansion were done well, would almost definitely give us a much more intriguing slate of games than anything the ACC could offer.