(05-05-2012 12:16 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  Statement two is merely a modification of my statement.

Mmm, I know.

JustAnotherName,

So you're not going to at least ask why the defections happened? I must say that FSU may be entering a situation it wants out of in 5, 10, 15 years. Some situations aren't as grand as they appear.

BTW I'm not being an ACC apologist here either.

I don't see how, in a scenario where the ACC is making significantly less money than other conferences, FSU would be better off staying put.

Do I care why those schools left? Sure.

I understand the money aspect in this. Its really not even debatable. If $$$ is the root cause of everything here then we as a society is lost. We'll be seeing Realignments every 5-10 years that totally makes 0 sense. And that's the shame in it all. And I'm not pinning any blame on FSU, Nebraska, Utah or any other school.

(05-05-2012 12:18 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  ...When we joined the ACC, the ACC made the most money. Now it makes the least.

That statement right there is all you really need to know about the quality of leadership coming out of Greensboro, NC. In the business world, that's how an executive gets fired.

(05-05-2012 12:44 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  I don't see how, in a scenario where the ACC is making significantly less money than other conferences, FSU would be better off staying put.

Do I care why those schools left? Sure.

Exactly.

The majority of the ACC doesn't understand because they are primarily competing with other ACC schools, the Big Least, or CUSA. FSU,Clemdon, & GT are competing with the SEC on a daily basis. We cant let the possibility of Texas perhaps moving in the distant future force us into committing football suicide by staying in a conference that has never shown a commitment to successful football. Staying in an ACC where we are $5-$8 million a year behind the schools we are really competing against will result in pretty much the same stratification between us and the SEC as there is between us and CUSA.

(05-05-2012 12:59 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 12:44 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  I don't see how, in a scenario where the ACC is making significantly less money than other conferences, FSU would be better off staying put.

Do I care why those schools left? Sure.

Exactly.

The majority of the ACC doesn't understand because they are primarily competing with other ACC schools, the Big Least, or CUSA. FSU,Clemdon, & GT are competing with the SEC on a daily basis. We cant let the possibility of Texas perhaps moving in the distant future force us into committing football suicide by staying in a conference that has never shown a commitment to successful football. Staying in an ACC where we are $5-$8 million a year behind the schools we are really competing against will result in pretty much the same stratification between us and the SEC as there is between us and CUSA.

I'm just saying, is being Texas's b*tch really worth it in the long run. There is a reason why there was a mass exodus from that league. The Big XII is a short term solution at best. I'm not faulting anyone in leaving. As a Pitt fan I totally understand the separation between Pitt and PSU & Ohio State.

(05-05-2012 11:29 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 11:23 AM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  Hokie Mark, you get it. Many ACC fans don't despite the obvious and that's their prerogative. Their schools need to do what's best for them and FSU needs to do what's best for us. If that means parting ways, so be it. Can't let the ACC stand in the way of our goals/progress.

I can't fault FSU if they feel its the right thing to do. But I will ask, even if the money is right, is the Big XII the best situation for FSU after seeing the defections the past 2 years? While the ACC may not be perfect for FSU or possibly even Pitt, but in the grander scheme of things, is the Big XII better? If the answers are indeed yes, then you must seek the Big XII as a long term home.

If FSU were to leave the ACC, I would hope it would at least be for the SEC. FSU would be a great fit for the SEC, and I doubt that any ACC fan would fault the 'noles for that move.

(05-05-2012 12:52 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I understand the money aspect in this. Its really not even debatable. If $$$ is the root cause of everything here then we as a society is lost. We'll be seeing Realignments every 5-10 years that totally makes 0 sense. And that's the shame in it all. And I'm not pinning any blame on FSU, Nebraska, Utah or any other school.

I think you're taking an extreme view on this. Society is not lost because FSU wants more athletic revenue in order to build some facilities, renovate others and pay our coaches.

You'd think there's some end-point to this all. At some point the Big Ten, SEC and which ever other conferences will have everyone they want and won't be able to pry anyone from the other power conferences. Right? We're just not there at the moment.

Maybe at some point the top 60ish schools break away and sell their tv rights as one entity and split that evenly. Maybe not.

(05-05-2012 01:04 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 12:59 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 12:44 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  I don't see how, in a scenario where the ACC is making significantly less money than other conferences, FSU would be better off staying put.

Do I care why those schools left? Sure.

Exactly.

The majority of the ACC doesn't understand because they are primarily competing with other ACC schools, the Big Least, or CUSA. FSU,Clemdon, & GT are competing with the SEC on a daily basis. We cant let the possibility of Texas perhaps moving in the distant future force us into committing football suicide by staying in a conference that has never shown a commitment to successful football. Staying in an ACC where we are $5-$8 million a year behind the schools we are really competing against will result in pretty much the same stratification between us and the SEC as there is between us and CUSA.

I'm just saying, is being Texas's b*tch really worth it in the long run. There is a reason why there was a mass exodus from that league. The Big XII is a short term solution at best. I'm not faulting anyone in leaving. As a Pitt fan I totally understand the separation between Pitt and PSU & Ohio State.

Are you just angry that schools from the conference you've not yet joined are potentially leaving for a different conference? Everybody in the ACC just LOVES Tobacco Road. Oh, wait. No they don't. Come on. Texas' *****?

Your first point... I almost have to take an extreme view. Look at the changes the past few years. Every time we think we're at an end game, something major happens that changes the entire landscape.

Your 2nd point... I'm not angry at all. Just ask any programs fan base that shared a conference with Texas. These programs either A: was their b*tch, B: took their ball and joined a different league, or C: got left behind. Like I said, within a few years, I see FSU either coming back to the ACC or chartering a new Conference.

Honestly I see 3 viable options for FSU that makes total sense... A: Join the SEC, B: Charter a New Conference... If Pitt gets left out of this scenario I can't be too upset, somebody gotta get left out... C: Use the Big XII as a bluff to make the ACC's TV Deal as profitable as possible.

Yes I will agree that Swofford dropped the ball the last TV deal. His biggest mistake was the length of the TV Deal.

Maybe this fire will lead to an ACC Network, but I'm not holding my breath either.

(05-05-2012 02:55 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Honestly I see 3 viable options for FSU that makes total sense... A: Join the SEC, B: Charter a New Conference... If Pitt gets left out of this scenario I can't be too upset, somebody gotta get left out... C: Use the Big XII as a bluff to make the ACC's TV Deal as profitable as possible.

Yes I will agree that Swofford dropped the ball the last TV deal. His biggest mistake was the length of the TV Deal.

Maybe this fire will lead to an ACC Network, but I'm not holding my breath either.

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! If FSU really wants to leave the ACC, why join an existing conference when they could create their own to replace it? How about these 12 teams:

Miami
South Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
East Carolina
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Houston

OK, I'm not married to Houston for #12, but they are a good team.

(05-05-2012 03:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  South Florida
East Carolina
Louisville
Houston

I don't like these choices. USF is a commuter school with poor academics and no history. ECU is better on those fronts, but still not on the same level academically. Louisville and Houston are footprint inappropriate.

Acceptable replacements:
- Penn State
- Notre Dame
- Virginia
- Syracuse

(05-05-2012 03:46 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 03:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  South Florida
East Carolina
Louisville
Houston

I don't like these choices. USF is a commuter school with poor academics and no history. ECU is better on those fronts, but still not on the same level academically. Louisville and Houston are footprint inappropriate.

Acceptable replacements:
- Penn State
- Notre Dame
- Virginia
- Syracuse

I think Louisville is fine, but I'd strongly consider WVU as an Acceptable replacement. It would be nice to be able to pull PSU and ND.

(05-05-2012 03:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! If FSU really wants to leave the ACC, why join an existing conference when they could create their own to replace it? How about these 12 teams:

Miami
South Florida
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
NC State
East Carolina
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Houston

OK, I'm not married to Houston for #12, but they are a good team.

If we're going on football prestige, and geography then...

Clemson
East Carolina (Not much prestige, but fill their stadium)
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Maryland (Sleeping giant)
Miami
NC State
Pitt
Rutgers (Sleeping giant)
Syracuse (Look at this crowd and say our fans don't care about football)
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Honestly, I'd like to see an FSU fans opinion on a new conference. I have a feeling it'll look a little different than what we're proposing.

(05-05-2012 01:04 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'm just saying, is being Texas's b*tch really worth it in the long run.

Is it any worse than being in a conference that goes out of it's way to give UNC every advantage it can?

Quote:There is a reason why there was a mass exodus from that league.

Sure it is, money.

Nebraska left for the B1G and more money.

Texas A&M finally got the SEC slot it had coveted since the early 1990's. Mizzou took a while to think about it and decided they couldn't turn down the money either.

The only one who left for a reason other than money was Colorado, and that's because they knew they couldn't compete with the Texas and Oklahoma schools anymore so they went west. It ended up making them a ton of money as well.

Quote:The Big XII is a short term solution at best.

It may very well be, but when the alternative is to stay in the ACC and essentially drop down a level from our SEC rivals both on and off he field I'll be more than happy to make that short term solution.

Quote:I'm not faulting anyone in leaving. As a Pitt fan I totally understand the separation between Pitt and PSU & Ohio State.

How log do you think it's going to take Pitt to come to the realization that they can't compete against the B1G schools because they are so far in the hole each year? That you'll go into each season much like the MWC and CUSA hoping hat all the stars align just right, that rubbing the rabbit's foot and finding a four leaf clover works and then you maybe have an outside chance to play for a national title. How long will Pitt fans tolerate that?

(05-05-2012 04:26 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Honestly, I'd like to see an FSU fans opinion on a new conference. I have a feeling it'll look a little different than what we're proposing.

Would probably depend on if you include teams in "stable" conferences.

(05-05-2012 04:29 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 01:04 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'm just saying, is being Texas's b*tch really worth it in the long run.

Is it any worse than being in a conference that goes out of it's way to give UNC every advantage it can?

Quote:There is a reason why there was a mass exodus from that league.

Sure it is, money.

Nebraska left for the B1G and more money.

Texas A&M finally got the SEC slot it had coveted since the early 1990's. Mizzou took a while to think about it and decided they couldn't turn down the money either.

The only one who left for a reason other than money was Colorado, and that's because they knew they couldn't compete with the Texas and Oklahoma schools anymore so they went west. It ended up making them a ton of money as well.

Quote:The Big XII is a short term solution at best.

It may very well be, but when the alternative is to stay in the ACC and essentially drop down a level from our SEC rivals both on and off he field I'll be more than happy to make that short term solution.

Quote:I'm not faulting anyone in leaving. As a Pitt fan I totally understand the separation between Pitt and PSU & Ohio State.

How log do you think it's going to take Pitt to come to the realization that they can't compete against the B1G schools because they are so far in the hole each year? That you'll go into each season much like the MWC and CUSA hoping hat all the stars align just right, that rubbing the rabbit's foot and finding a four leaf clover works and then you maybe have an outside chance to play for a national title. How long will Pitt fans tolerate that?

Point well taken in the Tobacco Road comparison. Overall a great rebuttal but I still feel that Nebraska, ATM, and Mizzou left because they was tired of Texas's ish.

What's your thoughts on FSU and Clemson leading the charge to start a new conference.