(03-30-2012 01:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  The loss of Butler on the Horizon could be huge. MAC could go after Cleveland State,Valpo, UW Milwaukee and Detroit. That would add significant depth to MAC hoops that is lacking especially in the west division. MAC needs new blood in the MAC west to motivate those teams to get better faster.

What????

17 schools - 12 who play all sports, 1 football only and 4 hoops????

How did you come up with this monster?

(03-30-2012 01:55 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 01:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  The loss of Butler on the Horizon could be huge. MAC could go after Cleveland State,Valpo, UW Milwaukee and Detroit. That would add significant depth to MAC hoops that is lacking especially in the west division. MAC needs new blood in the MAC west to motivate those teams to get better faster.

What????

17 schools - 12 who play all sports, 1 football only and 4 hoops????

How did you come up with this monster?

It sounds like a basketball fan that doesn't realize that football drives the bus, even for the MAC conference.

(03-30-2012 11:47 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:40 AM)uakronkid Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:37 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  If a conference wants ODU, let that conference help ODU to their feet.

What if the MAC wants ODU?

(03-30-2012 11:37 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  But #14 isn't an issue until #13 is settled. I hope the MAC office is working on that.

#13 won't be settled until you can guarantee whether or not there will be a #14.

I think 'Kid is right AND it might be easier to get to 16 than 14.

Just like the A-10 is more likely to get BOTH VCU and Mason than either alone.

And connecting the dots...

It might be easier to get to 16, than 14, IF both VCU and Mason go to the A-10.

At that point the dynamics for JMU, ODU and Delaware in the CAA change DRAMATICALLY.

JMU's big rival is Mason.

I believe VCU's big rival is ODU.

I'm trying to paint a picture of how the landscape changes so dramatically that JMU, ODU, and Delaware reconsider EVERYTHING, e.g., FBS FB, and hoops conference membership based on their desires and whatwould be happening within the CAA.

BTW, what is ODU's persona?

ODU's persona is more Mid-Atlantic than southern, which is true of most of Virginia outside of the rural areas and SW part of the state. The Hampton Roads area has an incredibly large military population between the Navy, AF, Army and Marines (in that order). These service members hail from all over the US, so the area has developed it's own unique culture...very much mainstream America...with a regional twist. That, coupled with being a beach vacation city (Virginia Beach) keeps things pretty up to date.

A large portion of ODU's students come from military families and service members from all over, so that influences the culture too. We are certainly not a homogenous group.

Final point, it was mentioned that we are an "urban" university. Yes...and no. ODU is in a residential area of Norfolk, not downtown. There is a true campus with green spaces and a quad and our athletic facilities are right on campus. It's not as rural as Ohio, but it's nothing like Pitt.

Monarch, that is what I would have guessed.

Military is a big cultural part of that area, but mid-Atlantic and not Southern.

I really believe it would fit with the MAC as would JMU and Delaware.

Each seem very consistent with a lot of other MAC schools.

As I have been suggesting is in several years bring all three schools together and there would be no problem with assimilating them into the MAC.

Each school could play 4 basketball games (home and home) vs. their old CAA rivals and like what's changed????

Ditto they can play each other in football.

Big issue is going from buses to airplanes as Cleveland, Detroit, Cincy, Chicago are a long bus ride.

(03-30-2012 05:26 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:47 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:40 AM)uakronkid Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:37 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  If a conference wants ODU, let that conference help ODU to their feet.

What if the MAC wants ODU?

(03-30-2012 11:37 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  But #14 isn't an issue until #13 is settled. I hope the MAC office is working on that.

#13 won't be settled until you can guarantee whether or not there will be a #14.

I think 'Kid is right AND it might be easier to get to 16 than 14.

Just like the A-10 is more likely to get BOTH VCU and Mason than either alone.

And connecting the dots...

It might be easier to get to 16, than 14, IF both VCU and Mason go to the A-10.

At that point the dynamics for JMU, ODU and Delaware in the CAA change DRAMATICALLY.

JMU's big rival is Mason.

I believe VCU's big rival is ODU.

I'm trying to paint a picture of how the landscape changes so dramatically that JMU, ODU, and Delaware reconsider EVERYTHING, e.g., FBS FB, and hoops conference membership based on their desires and whatwould be happening within the CAA.

BTW, what is ODU's persona?

ODU's persona is more Mid-Atlantic than southern, which is true of most of Virginia outside of the rural areas and SW part of the state. The Hampton Roads area has an incredibly large military population between the Navy, AF, Army and Marines (in that order). These service members hail from all over the US, so the area has developed it's own unique culture...very much mainstream America...with a regional twist. That, coupled with being a beach vacation city (Virginia Beach) keeps things pretty up to date.

A large portion of ODU's students come from military families and service members from all over, so that influences the culture too. We are certainly not a homogenous group.

Final point, it was mentioned that we are an "urban" university. Yes...and no. ODU is in a residential area of Norfolk, not downtown. There is a true campus with green spaces and a quad and our athletic facilities are right on campus. It's not as rural as Ohio, but it's nothing like Pitt.

Sounds a lot like Kent which is essentially in a suburb of Akron (technically it is not but it is close enough to be). Residential neighborhood but very close to an actual city.

I'm not sure I understand all of this 'residential part of a city'.

Isn't that true of most universities? EMU? Toledo?

(03-31-2012 08:10 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I'm not sure I understand all of this 'residential part of a city'.

Isn't that true of most universities? EMU? Toledo?

Most major universities are in small towns I would say (not scientifically done just thinking it through). Akron for instance is located downtown and is anything but residential (you would hope you don't live there) as is Cincinnati and oddly Ohio State. So it depends on the university.

I wouldn't consider ODU "residential" unless you consider older apartments right off campus, and so-so looking townhomes as "suburbia". No it's not REALLY urban, with large buildings and skyscrapers all around, but its right near a naval yard in one direction, then some not so great neighborhoods in another direction. The other two directions have bodies of water touching the campus. There's small shopping centers and gas stations right off of campus.
Most people outside of the ODU community consider the area "not so great", but I've never felt uncomfortable walking around it most hours of the day. It's not as bad as the reputation leads you to believe.
I'm not saying JMU is perfect, as many of the students are naive, thinking they're in this crimeless bubble and there are robberies and shootings off campus occasionally too. One person was killed at a party a few years back, etc.

Yea Kent is sort of like that. There is crime in Kent but most people don't know about it but it is nothing like Akron which is NOTHING like Youngstown. Granted Kent is a fairly safe place but some of the students forget that crime can happen anywhere and they act like it (walking alone at night that sort of thing).

(03-31-2012 08:10 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I'm not sure I understand all of this 'residential part of a city'.

Isn't that true of most universities? EMU? Toledo?

I'm sure you've been down to the Norfolk area before. Everything is spread out and it hardly qualifies for the urban tag and that is a main reason why major league sports haven't operated in the Tidewater area.

Its asking is Buffalo an urban campus? Its not even located in Buffalo proper.

Miami is an Urban campus. Best way to get to the stadium is by taking the subway. Best way to watch the game is from the many skyscrapers.

(03-31-2012 08:35 AM)Dukes09 Wrote:  I wouldn't consider ODU "residential" unless you consider older apartments right off campus, and so-so looking townhomes as "suburbia". No it's not REALLY urban, with large buildings and skyscrapers all around, but its right near a naval yard in one direction, then some not so great neighborhoods in another direction. The other two directions have bodies of water touching the campus. There's small shopping centers and gas stations right off of campus.
Most people outside of the ODU community consider the area "not so great", but I've never felt uncomfortable walking around it most hours of the day. It's not as bad as the reputation leads you to believe.
I'm not saying JMU is perfect, as many of the students are naive, thinking they're in this crimeless bubble and there are robberies and shootings off campus occasionally too. One person was killed at a party a few years back, etc.

I never said "suburbia"...I said residential. As in not downtown amid the skyscrapers...or astride an interstate freeway, like certain other schools. Some of the neighborhoods around campus are sketchy. Some are very expensive (Larchmont). Like anywhere else, you have to be smart about where you go and when you go there. Heck, the area around Yale is supposed to be a war zone.

Of interest to fans of other schools is "can I attend an away game and not fear for my life or property." At ODU you absolutely can. You never have to walk more than a block from the parking to the stadiums/arena and it's right on campus.

Oh...and don't dis the Navy base. It's the world's largest naval base and it's pretty cool (I'm biased, I was stationed there). Where else can you tour an aircraft carrier, a sub and a destroyer? Folks that have never seen that stuff think it's cool.

O yeah I've been to odu a few times and have always liked the campus. I even think it gets an unnecessarily bad wrap. The devon lane area near jmu's campus has had its string of robberies and other crime. You always need to be aware of your surroundings, as they try to drive that point home to freshman.

(03-31-2012 06:10 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  

(03-31-2012 08:35 AM)Dukes09 Wrote:  I wouldn't consider ODU "residential" unless you consider older apartments right off campus, and so-so looking townhomes as "suburbia". No it's not REALLY urban, with large buildings and skyscrapers all around, but its right near a naval yard in one direction, then some not so great neighborhoods in another direction. The other two directions have bodies of water touching the campus. There's small shopping centers and gas stations right off of campus.
Most people outside of the ODU community consider the area "not so great", but I've never felt uncomfortable walking around it most hours of the day. It's not as bad as the reputation leads you to believe.
I'm not saying JMU is perfect, as many of the students are naive, thinking they're in this crimeless bubble and there are robberies and shootings off campus occasionally too. One person was killed at a party a few years back, etc.

I never said "suburbia"...I said residential. As in not downtown amid the skyscrapers...or astride an interstate freeway, like certain other schools. Some of the neighborhoods around campus are sketchy. Some are very expensive (Larchmont). Like anywhere else, you have to be smart about where you go and when you go there. Heck, the area around Yale is supposed to be a war zone.

There's also the Ghent area to the south of ODU, which is considered one of the nicer areas of Norfolk.

Norfolk is kind of ghetto. The difference between Virginia Beach and Norfolk is big. A lot of people who work in Norfolk commute from Virginia Beach.

Nonetheless, i think ODU would be a nice addition. Strong hoops and football, quality academics, and located in a large market.

EMU's West Athletic Campus is West (surprise?) of the main campus and in a very good area. Very nice residential area. St. Joseph Mercy hospital (an excellent hospital) is across the street (Huron River Drive). Further west is the area which border Ann Arbor.

Sometimes I joke that Ann Arbor-Ypsilanti is Michigan's version of the "Twin Cities"...

Actually much of EMU's campus is surrounded by residential areas.

One can start at the edge of campus (say along Washtenaw Ave.) and immediately there is housing which students rent.

http://maps.yahoo.com/#q=Eastern+Michiga...vt=m&trf=0

(zoom about have way out and one will see EMU's campus, Rynearson, St. Joseph Mercy Hospital, and further to the west (left) U.S 23 which essentially divides Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor).

(03-30-2012 02:00 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 01:55 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 01:09 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  The loss of Butler on the Horizon could be huge. MAC could go after Cleveland State,Valpo, UW Milwaukee and Detroit. That would add significant depth to MAC hoops that is lacking especially in the west division. MAC needs new blood in the MAC west to motivate those teams to get better faster.

What????

17 schools - 12 who play all sports, 1 football only and 4 hoops????

How did you come up with this monster?

It sounds like a basketball fan that doesn't realize that football drives the bus, even for the MAC conference.

Please, please, please don't call it the MAC conference. That is redundant, and makes you sound like the talking heads on TV. It would be like calling it the CAA Association. It is either the MAC or the Mid-American Conference.

Okay, now that we have gotten that out of the way. I like the idea of the MAC offering JMU, ODU & Delaware in all sports. If they say yes, then it is time to turn up the heat on UMass, either you are all in or, we will find someone else.

I could give a rats a$$ about Mushall, it would be like asking your 2x ex-wife to give it a try for a third time.

BTW, the MAC has a commish, who knew!!!

The MAC has a specific profile- public universities with approx 20K students mostly located in college towns and small media markets inside the Big Tendozen foot print. This profile is a double-edged sword- on the one hand its frustrating to be the little brother and overlooked by the casual fan, on the other hand, at least it has an identity, more than you can say for CUSA/MWC or the Big Least.

With that being said, the way to improve the MAC is not by adding more FCS schools to further dilute the revenue share. We need all existing members committed to improving.

I actually think the A-10 is overreaching and I hope that GMU and VCU say no at this time. Butler is perfect because they will have great Midwest synergy with St. Louis, Dayton, and Xavier, as well as Duquesne and St. Bonaventure.

GMU and VCU, on the other hand, don't gain much by jumping to the A-10 at this time. I know they might be nervous that JMU and ODU could move up to FBS, but that is a few years away, and the A-10 will still be there at that time.

The five Virginia schools and UNC Wilmington are the heart and soul of the CAA. Richmond chose to leave a decade ago, but they are private, while the other five are publics. Georgia State is no great loss as they are easily replacable.

Another issue is that the A-10 is becoming increasingly private. If the day ever comes that UMass and UNC Charlotte leave, Rhode Island will be the only public school left. GMU and VCU need to heavily consider this as they deliberate.

I think GMU and VCU ought to sit tight. The CAA needs to replace Georgia State with one of Albany, Stony Brook, or Central Connecticut while the other two get football only status, and retain New Hampshire and Maine in football only.

The Horizon League also needs to be careful about overreaching. All they need is one warm body to replace Butler while the older schools grow to fill the void. I would like to see them look at Northern Kentucky again or even Bellarmine.

(04-01-2012 02:24 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC has a specific profile- public universities with approx 20K students mostly located in college towns and small media markets inside the Big Tendozen foot print. This profile is a double-edged sword- on the one hand its frustrating to be the little brother and overlooked by the casual fan, on the other hand, at least it has an identity, more than you can say for CUSA/MWC or the Big Least.

IMHO the CAA should invite College of Charleston, Davidson, ETSU, Liberty and Coastal Carolina.