Duquesne prez letter about the firing of the BB coach.

The usual "moving forward" PR pablum, but I thought this was interesting:

Quote:The A10 conference itself is on the verge of a major improvement with the addition of new high quality university programs.

Anyone have any specifics on this?

(03-23-2012 12:53 PM)axeme Wrote:  Duquesne prez letter about the firing of the BB coach.

The usual "moving forward" PR pablum, but I thought this was interesting:

Quote:The A10 conference itself is on the verge of a major improvement with the addition of new high quality university programs.

Anyone have any specifics on this?

Rumor has been Butler...

Maybe they think that a "major improvement" is anyone who replaces Temple.

George Mason and VCU fans are also salivating at the thought of the A10 with Butler also. Supposedly Duquesne's president said today that they were considering adding several programs.

They should have a special board for these threads...

I agree, if it's about expansion speculation. I was asking if anyone knew any facts that this guy was alluding to that I had missed.I have zero interest in whom people think should or should not go to various conferences.

i don't know about VCU & GM, CAA is nice conf, thier getting BB credits, compact for travell, location of tourn, & just signed TV contract.
A-10 has to worry about Xavier, Dayton & St Lious talking to MVC [which gets Mass looking] & Butler might satisfy them.
Marshall & East Car would work for olympic sports

(03-23-2012 01:53 PM)axeme Wrote:  I agree, if it's about expansion speculation. I was asking if anyone knew any facts that this guy was alluding to that I had missed.I have zero interest in who people think should or should not go to various conferences.

There's nothing official yet. Butler-to-A10 has a lot of respectable media sources behind it as a "done deal". Other than that, all we have is a New York Times article from several months ago stating that the A10 and CAA were looking to poach members from each other, specifically mentioning GMU and VCU as the prime A10 targets. Also, Richmond's head coach made a comment about favoring the additions of Butler, GMU and VCU to the A10. That's where things stand among respectable, reliable sources. If you include message board rumors, the A10 inquiries go far and wide, but I won't bother listing those yet.

(03-23-2012 01:10 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  George Mason and VCU fans are also salivating at the thought of the A10 with Butler also. Supposedly Duquesne's president said today that they were considering adding several programs.

I can understand theirs and Butler fans excitement. The Colonial has almost always been a 1 bid league, the Horizon on 2 occasions has had 2 bids (when Milwaukee used to be good and when Cleveland State who has been the #2 team in the Horizon the last 10 years) but most years only 1. The A10 got 4 bids this year, 2 more than the 12 PAC and as many as the ACC. Those 3 would also expand the A10's footprint out of the shadow of the BE. (Butler & TSISB are 150 miles apart). You add those 3 programs and you can make a reasonable argument that the A10 is not only a deeper quality league than the 12 PAC but the ACC as well, which is a huge statement for a non Big 6 league.

They would be basketball's equivalent of what the MWC was 4-5 years ago.

(03-23-2012 03:36 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  i don't know about VCU & GM, CAA is nice conf, thier getting BB credits, compact for travell, location of tourn, & just signed TV contract.
A-10 has to worry about Xavier, Dayton & St Lious talking to MVC [which gets Mass looking] & Butler might satisfy them.
Marshall & East Car would work for olympic sports

The A10 got 4 bids this year, the MVC only 2. Any of those teams would be nuts to leave for the MVC especially with the A10 conference champ leaving the A10, adding Butler helps build a bridge between St Louis , Dayton & Xavier to the rest of the A10.

CBS reported VCU, Butler, and Mason all in talks with the A-10.

That weakens the CAA significantly and kills the Horizon league.

I think it's time to make the call to JMU, ODU, and Delaware. If VCU and Mason leave, their stronger regional ties keeping them in the CAA are severed.

(03-26-2012 01:14 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  That weakens the CAA significantly and kills the Horizon league.

I think it's time to make the call to JMU, ODU, and Delaware. If VCU and Mason leave, their stronger regional ties keeping them in the CAA are severed.

Does MAC expansion = better basketball and/or more likely to get 2 or more bids in NCAA?

or

Does MAC expansion = diluted basketball and even harder to get the one NCAA bid?

and/or

Does MAC expansion really help our football exposure and $$$ position in regards to tv contracts?

(03-26-2012 01:25 PM)EA3 Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 01:14 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  That weakens the CAA significantly and kills the Horizon league.

I think it's time to make the call to JMU, ODU, and Delaware. If VCU and Mason leave, their stronger regional ties keeping them in the CAA are severed.

Does MAC expansion = better basketball and/or more likely to get 2 or more bids in NCAA?

or

Does MAC expansion = diluted basketball and even harder to get the one NCAA bid?

and/or

Does MAC expansion really help our football exposure and $$$ position in regards to tv contracts?

I don't think there is a question JMU, ODU, and Deleware are not game changing moves... They are best a push in hoops (would be competitive against the MAC east teams but not improve the conference)..

In football? There is a lot of potential in those schools. Best part is if you bring them all in there is a better chance they don't hop right off.

To recap:

Going after JMU, ODU, Delaward, and/or UMASS in all sports won't automatically make us a 2 bid league. None of those teams are a power house in basketball right now. The lone exception is UMASS, and I have a hard time believing they will bolt a retooled A10 that includes Butler, VCU and George Mason.

The expansion targets will make it even harder for everyone to make the NCAA tourney (Toledo? BGSU? How you guys feel about that?).

Not to mention, IF we continue to be a one bid league, how attractive are the head coaching jobs in the MAC if there are 14-16 teams in the league and only one goes dancing?

I've said this from day one, we hold the cards because of FBS football. Talking about expansion is backwards right now. We need to strengthen what we have and THEN look at what teams want to join us. Until that happens, we are just diluting our product.

(03-26-2012 01:51 PM)EA3 Wrote:  To recap:

Going after JMU, ODU, Delaward, and/or UMASS in all sports won't automatically make us a 2 bid league. None of those teams are a power house in basketball right now. The lone exception is UMASS, and I have a hard time believing they will bolt a retooled A10 that includes Butler, VCU and George Mason.

The expansion targets will make it even harder for everyone to make the NCAA tourney (Toledo? BGSU? How you guys feel about that?).

Not to mention, IF we continue to be a one bid league, how attractive are the head coaching jobs in the MAC if there are 14-16 teams in the league and only one goes dancing?

I've said this from day one, we hold the cards because of FBS football. Talking about expansion is backwards right now. We need to strengthen what we have and THEN look at what teams want to join us. Until that happens, we are just diluting our product.

Those cards mean *nothing* if you don't play them before the hand is over.

The BCS is going away, the Prohibition on FCS teams moving up is over, Mount USA is on again off again... These cards we have will never be stronger than they are today..

Soon enough another conference or so will appear, or the MAC gets raided by Mount USA (anyone who thinks Ohio, and Toledo are not on peoples radars are nuts).

Once one of those new things happen (CAA moves up / New Conference or the MAC loses one to two signature programs) then the hand is over.

You want to sit on the cards? fine, that's a legit choice... But be aware opportunity is fleeting.

(03-26-2012 02:06 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 01:51 PM)EA3 Wrote:  To recap:

Going after JMU, ODU, Delaward, and/or UMASS in all sports won't automatically make us a 2 bid league. None of those teams are a power house in basketball right now. The lone exception is UMASS, and I have a hard time believing they will bolt a retooled A10 that includes Butler, VCU and George Mason.

The expansion targets will make it even harder for everyone to make the NCAA tourney (Toledo? BGSU? How you guys feel about that?).

Not to mention, IF we continue to be a one bid league, how attractive are the head coaching jobs in the MAC if there are 14-16 teams in the league and only one goes dancing?

I've said this from day one, we hold the cards because of FBS football. Talking about expansion is backwards right now. We need to strengthen what we have and THEN look at what teams want to join us. Until that happens, we are just diluting our product.

Those cards mean *nothing* if you don't play them before the hand is over.

The BCS is going away, the Prohibition on FCS teams moving up is over, Mount USA is on again off again... These cards we have will never be stronger than they are today..

Soon enough another conference or so will appear, or the MAC gets raided by Mount USA (anyone who thinks Ohio, and Toledo are not on peoples radars are nuts).

Once one of those new things happen (CAA moves up / New Conference or the MAC loses one to two signature programs) then the hand is over.

You want to sit on the cards? fine, that's a legit choice... But be aware opportunity is fleeting.

I don't disagree with you.

I just find it hard to believe that adding members equals bigger and better things for the MAC right now.

Strength is not in numbers IMO.

(03-26-2012 02:06 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 01:51 PM)EA3 Wrote:  To recap:

Going after JMU, ODU, Delaward, and/or UMASS in all sports won't automatically make us a 2 bid league. None of those teams are a power house in basketball right now. The lone exception is UMASS, and I have a hard time believing they will bolt a retooled A10 that includes Butler, VCU and George Mason.

The expansion targets will make it even harder for everyone to make the NCAA tourney (Toledo? BGSU? How you guys feel about that?).

Not to mention, IF we continue to be a one bid league, how attractive are the head coaching jobs in the MAC if there are 14-16 teams in the league and only one goes dancing?

I've said this from day one, we hold the cards because of FBS football. Talking about expansion is backwards right now. We need to strengthen what we have and THEN look at what teams want to join us. Until that happens, we are just diluting our product.

Those cards mean *nothing* if you don't play them before the hand is over.

The BCS is going away, the Prohibition on FCS teams moving up is over, Mount USA is on again off again... These cards we have will never be stronger than they are today..

Soon enough another conference or so will appear, or the MAC gets raided by Mount USA (anyone who thinks Ohio, and Toledo are not on peoples radars are nuts).

Once one of those new things happen (CAA moves up / New Conference or the MAC loses one to two signature programs) then the hand is over.

You want to sit on the cards? fine, that's a legit choice... But be aware opportunity is fleeting.

Couldn't agree more. Offer all sports to JMU & ODU today. Delaware I'm not as enamored of. Should the MAC start some backchannel discussions with ECU, yeah I think so.

CUSA is going to add Belt teams to get back up to 12 for all sports, the 4 most likely adds are:

1) Md TN St (Nashville) not a bad distance from ECU
2) FIU (Miami) quite a bit longer commute than ECU to UCF(Orlando)
3) WKU (Bowling Green) only 100 miles from the Mississippi and ECU is on the Atlantic. Long distance
4) Arkansas State (Jonesboro?) west of the Mississippi and a long distance

CUSA already has members in ElPaso(Mountain Standard Time) Houston, Tulsa & New Orleans that are on or west of the Mississippi, add USM that is less than 100 miles from the river and WKU who is a similar distance and ECU is looking at significantly increased travel costs and distances not only for their programs but their rabid fans as well.

Take a 500 mile radius from ECU and the only CUSA members that are within are Marshall, MD TN St, UAB and possibly WKU if they join.

On the other hand the only MAC members outside of 500 miles would be in the MAC West that ECU would only play in a rare crossover game for football and hoops(with divisions in hoops to placate new eastern programs the MAC could go toward divisional scheduling in hoops with crossover games).

ECU's travel time and costs drop significantly and attending more road games becomes a distinct possibility for their fanbase especially considering that ODU & JMU would be closer than any current or future CUSA member.

What do you think MAC & Pirate fans?

(03-26-2012 02:12 PM)EA3 Wrote:  I don't disagree with you.

I just find it hard to believe that adding members equals bigger and better things for the MAC right now.

Strength is not in numbers IMO.

Not numbers but in regions...

Lets face most of the teams who automatically make us a two bid league won't join because

1) They are in a two bid league with no football and a small footprint.

2) If they are interested in football and are good enough to consider it chances are they are on MountUSA's or even the BE radar.

Personally I say the MAC invite a few school for all sports *except* football. I know it's a risk, just look at the Big East. But if you invite a bunch of schools who make you a two or three bid league who cares if you only have 12 football teams?

Guarantee them that *if* they ever want to move up in football that they can do it on their time table, with reasonable cost controls.

And offer six schools (including UMass) telling them that the first four to accept are in.. They have an FBS conference which will wait until they have the funding and interest to move up. In the mean time keep 12 for football.

The only schools that might be tempted away by CUSA would stay if the MAC was a multi bid league.

If UMass wants no part of hoops to the mac then we part ways in 2014.

(03-26-2012 01:14 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  That weakens the CAA significantly and kills the Horizon league.

I think it's time to make the call to JMU, ODU, and Delaware. If VCU and Mason leave, their stronger regional ties keeping them in the CAA are severed.

Disagree about "killing" the Horizon. Valpo is back on an upswing and Cleveland State has remained strong and competitive the last 10 years. There are Summit League programs that while not on par with Butler would be quality additions to the Horizon (Oakland) not to mention Murray State or SIU Edwardsville from the OVC.