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ACC teams to the Big 12???
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #121
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 02:12 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:06 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 01:17 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 11:49 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 11:38 AM)ShockerBob Wrote:  And I lolol'd when someone quote "Swaim" - wasn't this guy saying the 11th and 12th teams a few months ago to the Big12 were Louisville and Rutgers? Now he's changed his tune?

How is the ACC getting poached when it's a much more stable conference than the Big12? A Conference that was a Pac16 or OU to the SEC/Big10/Pac10 from being done??? I'd actually like to know from someone with more inside knowledge (no I'm not being a smartass). Just seems out there for me, but nothing would surprise me in College Football after anything or everything the Big12 and BigEast have/are doing.

Much more stable huh? A conference that added two programs in panic mode and sped through legislation to raise their buyout (that was reduced from what they wanted it to be by certain members) is stable? A league with three major programs under NCAA scrutiny is stable?
The Big XII has a 6 year media rights grant, makes more money per team and that's about to rise significantly, has more strong athletic programs across the board and that is with ten teams on board.

You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the Big12 is more stable than the ACC....

03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao

You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the ACC is stable

01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle

Which Conference lost 4 teams and was almost disbanded?

Which Conference has a 800lb Gorilla that flirts with the Pac10 every year?

Which Conference was/is an OU to SEC/Pac10/Big10 away from being non-existent?

Which Conference had a member threaten to sue because of possibly being stuck in the middle of nowhere?

Maybe I should re-link Boren's emails.

Which conference made a panic move to 14 because they were worried they were about to be poached?

Which conference made a panic move to increase their buyout due to fear of losing teams, but were shot down to a lower buyout by their own members?

Which conference has multiple teams in major NCAA violations?

Which conference has programs and schools in financial dissarray?

Which conference has the worst BCS winning percentage and is barely meeting the current BCS requirements if at all?

Which conference hasn't had a team place in the top four for over a decade?

Which conference has the lowest payouts from tv even with the raid of two more BE teams?

Which conference has two teams with athletic advisory committees evaluating their schools athletic futures?
02-23-2012 02:42 PM
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4x4hokies Offline
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Post: #122
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 02:42 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:12 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:06 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 01:17 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 11:49 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Much more stable huh? A conference that added two programs in panic mode and sped through legislation to raise their buyout (that was reduced from what they wanted it to be by certain members) is stable? A league with three major programs under NCAA scrutiny is stable?
The Big XII has a 6 year media rights grant, makes more money per team and that's about to rise significantly, has more strong athletic programs across the board and that is with ten teams on board.

You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the Big12 is more stable than the ACC....

03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao

You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the ACC is stable

01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle

Which Conference lost 4 teams and was almost disbanded?

Which Conference has a 800lb Gorilla that flirts with the Pac10 every year?

Which Conference was/is an OU to SEC/Pac10/Big10 away from being non-existent?

Which Conference had a member threaten to sue because of possibly being stuck in the middle of nowhere?

Maybe I should re-link Boren's emails.

Which conference made a panic move to 14 because they were worried they were about to be poached?

Which conference made a panic move to increase their buyout due to fear of losing teams, but were shot down to a lower buyout by their own members?

Which conference has multiple teams in major NCAA violations?

Which conference has programs and schools in financial dissarray?

Which conference has the worst BCS winning percentage and is barely meeting the current BCS requirements if at all?

Which conference hasn't had a team place in the top four for over a decade?

This is a lie

Which conference has the lowest payouts from tv even with the raid of two more BE teams?

Which conference has two teams with athletic advisory committees evaluating their schools athletic futures?

Which conference made a panic move to add two members so they didn't lose their television contract?

Which conference made a panic move to force a grant of rights to keep members from leaving?

Which school left their conference in a panic and begged three conferences to accept them?
02-23-2012 02:47 PM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #123
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 02:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:42 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:12 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:06 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 01:17 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the Big12 is more stable than the ACC....

03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao

You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the ACC is stable

01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle

Which Conference lost 4 teams and was almost disbanded?

Which Conference has a 800lb Gorilla that flirts with the Pac10 every year?

Which Conference was/is an OU to SEC/Pac10/Big10 away from being non-existent?

Which Conference had a member threaten to sue because of possibly being stuck in the middle of nowhere?

Maybe I should re-link Boren's emails.

Which conference made a panic move to 14 because they were worried they were about to be poached?

Which conference made a panic move to increase their buyout due to fear of losing teams, but were shot down to a lower buyout by their own members?

Which conference has multiple teams in major NCAA violations?

Which conference has programs and schools in financial dissarray?

Which conference has the worst BCS winning percentage and is barely meeting the current BCS requirements if at all?

Which conference hasn't had a team place in the top four for over a decade?

This is a lie

Which conference has the lowest payouts from tv even with the raid of two more BE teams?

Which conference has two teams with athletic advisory committees evaluating their schools athletic futures?

Which conference made a panic move to add two members so they didn't lose their television contract?

Not aware of one that did

Which conference made a panic move to force a grant of rights to keep members from leaving?

None. The Big XII made a calm well thought out business decision.

Which school left their conference in a panic and begged three conferences to accept them?

TCU? Don't think it was them. WVU didn't beg any conference so I know you aren't talking about WVU.
02-23-2012 02:55 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #124
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 02:37 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:16 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  The ACC has added 6 since 1991, the B12 has LOST 4 programs since 2011. Perception of instability within the ACC can't refute those facts.

The Big XII has a 6 year grant of media rights, makes more money per team at 10 than the ACC does at 14, will get much more revenues soon, has (at least) two power teams to none for the ACC, Has athletics in various sports ranked at or near the top of any conference, has multiple expansion options if they go that route--The ACC has NCAA violaters, some schools in financial crisis, the smallest payouts of the power conferences locked in until 2026, diminishing football and basketball and television ratings and bowl wins, the poorest BCS record of AQ conferences--reality can't refute those facts.

Yes, a six year TV right grant will convince ACC schools to jump ship. Such a move would be the height of short-sightness. Unlike WVU, the AD does not run those institutions, university presidents do. And if you think you'll see a fan revolt a la A&M to convince the schools to move you are sadly mistaken.
02-23-2012 02:58 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #125
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 11:43 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 11:31 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You're wrong. If you'll look at that list in the link I provided, you'll see the top football earning ACC school was Virginia Tech, which was 2 places below WVU...
The revenues shown are not from television alone. They are from multiple sources.
It includes all sources of income related to football. That's part and parcel of what a school earns on the sport. Isn't it?
02-23-2012 03:20 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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Post: #126
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
What's that omnipresent disclosure that must be included in financial prospectuses? Ah, yes: "Past performance does not guarantee future results." While it is prudent to examine history to help predict the future, I think it's also important to focus on relevant topics. I don't think that the fact that the Big 12 has lost 4 members in recent years is inherently germane to evaluating possible future expansion, as much as the following factors are:

  1. Are the remaining/existing members a coherent and cohesive unit?
  2. Is there significant potential for remaining/existing members to leave for another conference?
  3. Would any potential additions fit well with the existing members?
  4. Do any potential additions have a compelling reason to leave their present home, and/or would they be a better fit with the existing members?

I think that it can be reasonably argued that while it may be an uneasy peace, there is now more coherence in the Big 12 than there has been for some time. Nebraska and Texas had been butting heads since the conference was formed. Colorado had history with the old Big 8 schools, but they were always looking west. aTm has also been chafing at UT's influence, and looking for a way to help build their own identity. Missouri has also felt slighted, sometimes for good reason and sometimes not, and when opportunity arose they took their leave. While the remaining schools don't always see eye-to-eye (particularly with UT), I don't think that there's always universal harmony in other conferences either, and I think most existing members see how the Big 12 is a good fit for various reasons.

As for the potential to leave, the two most attractive brands in the conference both have insurmountable (at least for now) stumbling blocks to joining power conferences, and enjoy their position atop the Big 12. The other members don't have any options that are as attractive as the Big 12, and thus have no incentive to leave.

As for potential additions, I think that there are decent arguments that can be made for the four most discussed candidates (Louisville, Cincy, Florida State, and Clemson) as far as fitting into the Big 12.

The stumbling block as I see it, particularly for the ACC teams, is point 4. Even if they would be good fits with the Big 12, would that be a better fit than their present home? It's true that the ACC has underperformed in football, but these things can be cyclical. The ACC is also an exceptional academic conference, with much more prestige than the Big 12. The ACC is also well positioned all along the Eastern Seaboard, which is still the most populated area of the country. Despite any internal disagreements, those schools are also geographically and culturally closer to many ACC schools than to the Big 12.

In an expansion to 14 I would welcome all 4 of those schools. I just don't think that the FSU and Clemson additions are likely to occur.
02-23-2012 03:23 PM
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dogma Offline
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Post: #127
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 02:55 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:42 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:12 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:06 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  You are honestly telling us and everyone here that the ACC is stable

01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle01-wingedeagle

Which Conference lost 4 teams and was almost disbanded?

Which Conference has a 800lb Gorilla that flirts with the Pac10 every year?

Which Conference was/is an OU to SEC/Pac10/Big10 away from being non-existent?

Which Conference had a member threaten to sue because of possibly being stuck in the middle of nowhere?

Maybe I should re-link Boren's emails.

Which conference made a panic move to 14 because they were worried they were about to be poached?

Which conference made a panic move to increase their buyout due to fear of losing teams, but were shot down to a lower buyout by their own members?

Which conference has multiple teams in major NCAA violations?

Which conference has programs and schools in financial dissarray?

Which conference has the worst BCS winning percentage and is barely meeting the current BCS requirements if at all?

Which conference hasn't had a team place in the top four for over a decade?

This is a lie

Which conference has the lowest payouts from tv even with the raid of two more BE teams?

Which conference has two teams with athletic advisory committees evaluating their schools athletic futures?

Which conference made a panic move to add two members so they didn't lose their television contract?

Not aware of one that did

Which conference made a panic move to force a grant of rights to keep members from leaving?

None. The Big XII made a calm well thought out business decision.

Which school left their conference in a panic and begged three conferences to accept them?

TCU? Don't think it was them. WVU didn't beg any conference so I know you aren't talking about WVU.


http://mrsec.com/2011/09/cbs-mcmurphy-wv...y-acc-sec/ 03-melodramatic

http://pittsburghsportsdepot.com/2011/09...c-and-acc/ 03-nutkick



03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012 03:26 PM by dogma.)
02-23-2012 03:25 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #128
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
Wow...nice pissing match back and forth between WVU and VT fans....bottom line is that both conferences have had their issues. The B12 did lose 4 programs, but it lost them to the B1G, PAC-12 and SEC, the three best conferences. The ACC recently added two teams and raised their exit fee's and the B12 recently added two teams and raised their exit fee.

I think most understand the instability of the B12, what I find fascinating is ACC fans that believe the ACC office. One of the first statements made after adding Cusa and Pitt was that the "ACC is one of the most stable conferences in the country". Of course that is a relative statement with many different meanings. This is classic "UNC" speak with a "nothing to see here" mindset. Control the media, control the fans perceptions. There is a undercurrent brewing however within Clemson and NC State against the ACC office. Seems FSU is "exploring" at the least in terms of the SEC. I'll just say this, we know that if politics dont get in the way that the SEC would love a presence in NC and VA....I've even heard Maryland would fit the bill (think VT and Maryland). The SEC is going to go to 16 eventually and they already expanded West....the ACC is who they will come after. Dissension is what they are looking for....Texas A&M type dissension. Who has that dissension and who "needs" the SEC the most. Maryland is cash strapped, NC State has significant dissension against the UNC control, Clemson has its football issues. Also, if Clemson and FSU are not involved in SEC discussions, what are they to do? Not look at the B12 as an option? Considering ACC fans consider themselves so intelligent, you don't honestly believe that you are THAT stable, do you? You dont actually believe the crap being spewed from the league office? There has to be a reason that Maryland and FSU talked the ACC buyout down before signing.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012 03:32 PM by HP-TBDPITL.)
02-23-2012 03:28 PM
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fsugrad99 Offline
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Post: #129
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
I assure you, FSU is not exploring the SEC. That little committee you guys like talking about? It was done to ensure that the ACC was being proactive. Three days after the Palm Beach Post posted that article, Pitt and Syracuse were added. Shocking, isn't it?

For Clemson, they're group is looking at hundreds of items of various importance. The only people that are convinced that this means they're leaving post in this thread.

Why do you think that is?

WRT to the SEC, VT already turned them down. State had a chance to explore and did not. The SEC showed no interest in GT, Clemson or FSU. Last year was the perfect opportunity for the SEC to do something and they only had meaningful discussions with Missouri and WVU.

Why do you think that is?
02-23-2012 03:56 PM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #130
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 03:28 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  There has to be a reason that Maryland and FSU talked the ACC buyout down before signing.

There is, it's called the B10. That's the only conference the Maryland President would take a phone call from.

SEC? "Take a message." 07-coffee3
B12? "Don't even answer it." 03-puke
Ivy? "Must be a prank call." 04-cheers
02-23-2012 03:58 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #131
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 03:58 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 03:28 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  There has to be a reason that Maryland and FSU talked the ACC buyout down before signing.

There is, it's called the B10. That's the only conference the Maryland President would take a phone call from.

SEC? "Take a message." 07-coffee3
B12? "Don't even answer it." 03-puke
Ivy? "Must be a prank call." 04-cheers

Certainly...but the B12 is being chastised for losing programs to the 3 Big conferences when the ACC could lose to those conferences as well...(not so much to the PAC because of geography). The SEC aalready has schools in 3 ACC states, which is why they looked West. T A&M and Missou are bigger fish than anything they would find in the East.
02-23-2012 05:08 PM
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ndlutz Offline
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Post: #132
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
Nobody is leaving the ACC for the Big 12. That's just not rational thought.
02-23-2012 05:11 PM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #133
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
It's not rational to believe that ACC schools wouldn't look out for their best interest and evaluate all possible conference alignments for their school(s).
02-23-2012 05:24 PM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #134
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 03:25 PM)dogma Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:55 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:42 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 02:12 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  Which Conference lost 4 teams and was almost disbanded?

Which Conference has a 800lb Gorilla that flirts with the Pac10 every year?

Which Conference was/is an OU to SEC/Pac10/Big10 away from being non-existent?

Which Conference had a member threaten to sue because of possibly being stuck in the middle of nowhere?

Maybe I should re-link Boren's emails.

Which conference made a panic move to 14 because they were worried they were about to be poached?

Which conference made a panic move to increase their buyout due to fear of losing teams, but were shot down to a lower buyout by their own members?

Which conference has multiple teams in major NCAA violations?

Which conference has programs and schools in financial dissarray?

Which conference has the worst BCS winning percentage and is barely meeting the current BCS requirements if at all?

Which conference hasn't had a team place in the top four for over a decade?

This is a lie

Which conference has the lowest payouts from tv even with the raid of two more BE teams?

Which conference has two teams with athletic advisory committees evaluating their schools athletic futures?

Which conference made a panic move to add two members so they didn't lose their television contract?

Not aware of one that did

Which conference made a panic move to force a grant of rights to keep members from leaving?

None. The Big XII made a calm well thought out business decision.

Which school left their conference in a panic and begged three conferences to accept them?

TCU? Don't think it was them. WVU didn't beg any conference so I know you aren't talking about WVU.


http://mrsec.com/2011/09/cbs-mcmurphy-wv...y-acc-sec/ 03-melodramatic

http://pittsburghsportsdepot.com/2011/09...c-and-acc/ 03-nutkick



03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao

04-cheers

EXCERPT:

We've just gone through a rather interesting year, and so we now have 10 good, solid members. We're very stable for a lot of reasons, and you can't ignore the fact that every one of the 10 signed a grant of rights, which means that the conference now has their television rights, so that puts us in a very secure position going forward.

DU: That was officially executed, correct?

CN: Oh, yes.

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/...-expansion

As for the ranking being a lie look it up--FSU was the last ACC team ranked in the top four in 1999.

As to your other BS--multiple Big East sources? who are these multiple BE sources? WVU was not approached by those leagues and did not beg to get into either of those leagues. They certainly didn't tell "Big East sources" that they were rejected by either league.

What really happened?

From Mike Casazza
excerpt:

Ok, time to panic

McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
Multiple Big East sources said they have been told by WVU officials that WVU rejected by ACC & SEC

slmandel Stewart Mandel
ACC thumbs nose at WVU academics. SEC wants TV sets, and W Va doesn’t have enough of them.

Just because some people might not yet be clear on this, there has been no rejection by the ACC or SEC. WVU knew before then it was not a fit for the ACC, but the SEC ship has not sailed. WVU was kind of mad about this, not that Brett was going with it, but because WVU thought a recruiting rival or a Big East official/school official made it up to knock WVU down a peg.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/wvu/2011/09/2...dback-158/
02-23-2012 05:44 PM
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fsugrad99 Offline
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Post: #135
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 05:24 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  It's not rational to believe that ACC schools wouldn't look out for their best interest and evaluate all possible conference alignments for their school(s).

That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.
02-23-2012 06:37 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #136
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 06:37 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 05:24 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  It's not rational to believe that ACC schools wouldn't look out for their best interest and evaluate all possible conference alignments for their school(s).

That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.

bingo....
02-23-2012 06:44 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #137
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 06:37 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.
Going to the Big XII is more rational than staying in The BEast, just like going to the ACC was more rational for Pitt and Syracuse...
02-23-2012 07:00 PM
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ShockerBob Offline
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The Parliament Awards
Post: #138
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 07:00 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 06:37 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.
Going to the Big XII is more rational than staying in The BEast, just like going to the ACC was more rational for Pitt and Syracuse...

Going to the ACC would have been more rational for WVU than going to the Big12 05-stirthepot
02-23-2012 07:03 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #139
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 07:00 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 06:37 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.
Going to the Big XII is more rational than staying in The BEast, just like going to the ACC was more rational for Pitt and Syracuse...

Difference is he's referring to ACC schools leaving the ACC to head to the B12.
02-23-2012 07:04 PM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #140
RE: ACC teams to the Big 12???
(02-23-2012 07:03 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 07:00 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 06:37 PM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  That's rational. Going to the Big 12 is not.
Going to the Big XII is more rational than staying in The BEast, just like going to the ACC was more rational for Pitt and Syracuse...

Going to the ACC would have been more rational for WVU than going to the Big12 05-stirthepot

They would have joined the ACC if they could.
02-23-2012 10:05 PM
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