(08-12-2011 03:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  All for bringing home assets, as I've stated in the past. I'm talking about our support for Israel. We don't defend their soil. We don't have troops on their soil. We sell them armament, as a trade partner. We do this with all NATO countries as well. Does he want to see that stopped? Or just to Israel?

I have never heard RP advocate cutting trade with Israel or any other country. Why would arms trade to Israel stop?

Well, that's the only pseudo military relationship we have with them, so if he's referring to something else, please, do explain.

(08-12-2011 03:09 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 02:57 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 02:53 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 02:41 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  And that goes for everyone in here...from dems to repubs to libs to conservstives and even neocons. When friends need help...you help.

Not if your friendship is solely contingent upon me coming to your defense every time you get in trouble. Just where is the reciprocation in that type of relationship? I'm not sure I see that much reciprocation in our relationship with Israel.
One of my Jewish friends has said this over and over. "If the US ever crossed Israel...It would attack the US just as quickly as anyone else to defend it's soil".

A. Your friend isn't an Isreali diplomat so how would he know...and I doubt it.
B. You missed the point. When friends need help you give help. The US has always had strong ties with Isreal and that includes HELPING them against the other crazy rag heads over there.

We have given at the office. They are capable of their own defense. It is time they stand on their own without having to depend upon the fruits of my labor to do so. The same goes for the rest of the welfare military states worldwide that we are propping up. We simply can not afford it any more and as long as we are willing to foot the bills...these welfare queens are not going to step up and defend themselves.

Let me be clear...I have no less problem with Israels defense than I do with having 50k troops in Germany or the other wasted assets we currently foot the bill for all over the world. I want to scale back ALL of this nonsense.

With one MAJOR difference...We helped create Isreal. We kind of owe them some help. I do agree with you about most of the other bases around the world.

If you come and help me as a friend build an addition to my garage and I promise to "make it up to you" in the future....Just how long and how much do I need to do to pay you back? There comes a point where the bill has been paid. I'd say we long since have done our share in regard to Israel.

(08-12-2011 03:11 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  All for bringing home assets, as I've stated in the past. I'm talking about our support for Israel. We don't defend their soil. We don't have troops on their soil. We sell them armament, as a trade partner. We do this with all NATO countries as well. Does he want to see that stopped? Or just to Israel?

I have never heard RP advocate cutting trade with Israel or any other country. Why would arms trade to Israel stop?

Well, that's the only pseudo military relationship we have with them, so if he's referring to something else, please, do explain.

Correct me if I am wrong. US aide does not go to Israel?

I don't keep tabs with my friends...Whatever they need. But I guess thats me. I guess we have a different idea of what the word ALLY means. Agree to disagree.

If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

(08-12-2011 03:16 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't keep tabs with my friends...Whatever they need. But I guess thats me. I guess we have a different idea of what the word ALLY means. Agree to disagree.

So if someone continues to bring up that "you owe me" even though you have more than repaid your friendly debt..you are going to continue being a friend to them? You have more loyalty and patience than I do.

(08-12-2011 03:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:16 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  I don't keep tabs with my friends...Whatever they need. But I guess thats me. I guess we have a different idea of what the word ALLY means. Agree to disagree.

So if someone continues to bring up that "you owe me" even though you have more than repaid your friendly debt..you are going to continue being a friend to them? You have more loyalty and patience than I do.

I know.

(08-12-2011 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:11 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  All for bringing home assets, as I've stated in the past. I'm talking about our support for Israel. We don't defend their soil. We don't have troops on their soil. We sell them armament, as a trade partner. We do this with all NATO countries as well. Does he want to see that stopped? Or just to Israel?

I have never heard RP advocate cutting trade with Israel or any other country. Why would arms trade to Israel stop?

Well, that's the only pseudo military relationship we have with them, so if he's referring to something else, please, do explain.

Correct me if I am wrong. US aide does not go to Israel?

It goes all over the world, but he seems to focus in on Israel for some odd reason.

(08-12-2011 03:19 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

...and it has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that he thinks terrorist attacks are caused by our friendship with Israel. ...yet, he cannot explain the terrorist attacks by Muslims on countries with no relationship with Israel or involvement in the ME.

(08-12-2011 03:26 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:11 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  All for bringing home assets, as I've stated in the past. I'm talking about our support for Israel. We don't defend their soil. We don't have troops on their soil. We sell them armament, as a trade partner. We do this with all NATO countries as well. Does he want to see that stopped? Or just to Israel?

I have never heard RP advocate cutting trade with Israel or any other country. Why would arms trade to Israel stop?

Well, that's the only pseudo military relationship we have with them, so if he's referring to something else, please, do explain.

Correct me if I am wrong. US aide does not go to Israel?

It goes all over the world, but he seems to focus in on Israel for some odd reason.

He clearly last night said he wanted to end foreign aide. He did not mention Israel. If he has done this in the past...I have not heard that and stand corrected.

(08-12-2011 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:19 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

(08-12-2011 03:28 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ...and it has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that he thinks terrorist attacks are caused by our friendship with Israel. ...yet, he cannot explain the terrorist attacks by Muslims on countries with no relationship with Israel or involvement in the ME.

RP has repeatedly stated that he understands that there is a radical form of Islam that is dangerous and should be dealt with. He has been consistent in this as far as I seen. What he has stated is that we have encouraged this radical form to grow by our meddling in the ME. I agree.

Pawlenty is apparently going for broke. Per the Des Moines NBC affiliate ... he has retained over 50 buses, and outside organizations have retained even more. He has sunk nearly his entire war chest into this. His campaign might be in the red after this.

(08-12-2011 03:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:28 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ...and it has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that he thinks terrorist attacks are caused by our friendship with Israel. ...yet, he cannot explain the terrorist attacks by Muslims on countries with no relationship with Israel or involvement in the ME.

RP has repeatedly stated that he understands that there is a radical form of Islam that is dangerous and should be dealt with. He has been consistent in this as far as I seen. What he has stated is that we have encouraged this radical form to grow by our meddling in the ME. I agree.

...and I don't. They've spread all over Africa and the SW Pacific/Indian Ocean. WTF did we have to do with that? This is a religion hellbent on global domination, and I don't mean like Christianity, whose members "witness" to you, if you wish, and leave the choice up to you. I mean the ones that will force you to convert or be subjugated and taxed, or have your f'n head cut off.

(08-12-2011 03:31 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:19 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

I stand against ALL foreign aide that is not humanitarian in nature. I want to have open trade and open diplomatic relationships with ALL nations. This is my stance and I am pretty sure Ron Paul has the same stance. That does not mean that I do not support a strong defense or that I do not favor coming to the defense of others in cases where OUR national security is at risk. I am also pretty sure Ron Paul also agrees with this stance. What I can not tolerate is the WASTE and the unintended consequences of our militarism all over the world. I am pretty sure that Ron Paul also feels this way. I hope this is clear.

(08-12-2011 03:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:31 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:19 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

I stand against ALL foreign aide that is not humanitarian in nature.

Then I can think of no better case for aid to Israel.

(08-12-2011 03:45 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:31 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:19 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  If I have a dollar my friends are never broke, if I have food they're never hungry and I need to help them defend their soil they all know they can call me. Thats the relationship we should have with Israel.

I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

I stand against ALL foreign aide that is not humanitarian in nature.

Then I can think of no better case for aid to Israel.

There are several private organizations that accept donations. I see them advertised on TV all the time.

(08-12-2011 03:48 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:45 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:31 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I also will go the distance for my personal friends. There is a distinction though that should be noticed. One is a personal relationship....the other is collective relationship. There is a vast difference in the two...mainly because you are depending upon the fruits of others labors to support that collective relationship. What if I don't care to participate for whatever reason? Maybe you are wrong in your defense of this collective relationship?

Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

I stand against ALL foreign aide that is not humanitarian in nature.

Then I can think of no better case for aid to Israel.

There are several private organizations that accept donations. I see them advertised on TV all the time.

Oh, so you're for humanitarian aid, so long as it's not going to Israel?

(08-12-2011 03:52 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:48 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:45 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-12-2011 03:31 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  Isreal is hardly sucking us dry of our resources. Like I said earlier I'm all for cutting ties and closing military bases with other countries but one we created and SURROUNDED by people bent on their demise is hardly an ally you turn your back on. If nothing else its a biblical mandate that Israel survive.

I stand against ALL foreign aide that is not humanitarian in nature.

Then I can think of no better case for aid to Israel.

There are several private organizations that accept donations. I see them advertised on TV all the time.

Oh, so you're for humanitarian aid, so long as it's not going to Israel?

Of course not..but..I would bet that the aid we send now is not of that nature. If "real" humanitarian aide is needed in Israel, I have no problem with providing it or even privately donating to that cause.