When's the last time a president has been elected with over 9% unemployment?

Independents will determine the next election as they always have. You moonbat radical Progs have no chance.

(07-22-2011 09:40 PM)Rebel Wrote:  When's the last time a president has been elected with over 9% unemployment?

Independents will determine the next election as they always have. You moonbat radical Progs have no chance.

Yes...The GOP must simply GO HARD after the classical liberals and blue dog democrats. The ticket must reflect that charge.

(07-22-2011 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:40 PM)Rebel Wrote:  When's the last time a president has been elected with over 9% unemployment?

Independents will determine the next election as they always have. You moonbat radical Progs have no chance.

Yes...The GOP must simply GO HARD after the classical liberals and blue dog democrats. The ticket must reflect that charge.

Blue dogs don't exist anymore. They've become conservatives. The DNC did a good job weeding them out over the last few years. We've had SEVERAL switch here in GA. The Democratic party has essentially become the Socialist party. Hell, I don't know why it's surprising. It was in the Communist Goals of 1963 entered into congressional record. They wanted to take control of one or both parties. They got one.

(07-22-2011 08:04 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

Quote:The President offers $3 trillion in cuts in exchange for $1 trillion in revenues (75/25 split), and he still got a no from the GOPers

Some men are leaders, some are destined to make Jimmy Carter look good. A true leader would have gotten what he wanted.

You are speaking of Boehner right? He wanted this deal but couldn't deliver.

(07-22-2011 09:45 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 09:40 PM)Rebel Wrote:  When's the last time a president has been elected with over 9% unemployment?

Independents will determine the next election as they always have. You moonbat radical Progs have no chance.

Yes...The GOP must simply GO HARD after the classical liberals and blue dog democrats. The ticket must reflect that charge.

Blue dogs don't exist anymore. They've become conservatives. The DNC did a good job weeding them out over the last few years. We've had SEVERAL switch here in GA. The Democratic party has essentially become the Socialist party. Hell, I don't know why it's surprising. It was in the Communist Goals of 1963 entered into congressional record. They wanted to take control of one or both parties. They got one.

There are still plenty of BD's around me in SENC and they are not members of the GOP. All you have to do is point the dogs toward jobs. They vote with who ever is providing them prosperity.... We are standing at a reported 9.5 % unemployed. That of course is BS. It is more like 12 to 14.

I give that damn James Carville props....."It's the economy stupid".

Im no fan of Obama, but David Brook's opinion of the GOP will be proven correct if we default. The effect on the stock market alone, along with the disappearance of anything the middle class has left in reserve, is enough just to raise the damn thing. If you want to get the cuts that we do need, shut down the government in October. Dont use the savings and investments of Americans as a bargaining chip in this fight.

(07-22-2011 08:40 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:06 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's going to work out fine for the President. The debt limit is going to be raised, and the voters get to see that the GOP is a radical party incapable of governing.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the house republicans went ahead and let us hit the debt ceiling on august 2nd. No better way to get the spending cuts you want and that the country needs. We can pay our bonds, SS, Medicare, and the military, but everything else is instantly cut out. Dems better offer a lot of concessions to the house republicans or we'll hit the limit and default. I see this as a classic example of two groups not being able to negotiate, because there is no middle ground to settle. Dems are in the position of weakness in that they don't want spending cuts, republicans have the power to force spending cuts one way or another. Personally, I don't think the house republicans are too concerned about raising the debt limit and we'll be happy enough to just default. I'm not advocating the wisdom of that, just that it's definitely a possibility.

From a purely political point of view, it would be awesome if the GOPers forced us into a default. They'd cease to be a viable party. We'd give the Great Depression a run for it's money, and the GOP would own it entirely. That's why the GOPers will vote for the plan where the President essentially gets the power to raise the debt ceiling. Then the President gets to campaign on his willingness to compromise for the good of the nation, the GOPer's unwillingness to compromise due to the extremist agenda, and the GOP's inability to govern even on the most important of issues. This is a massive victory for the President.

(07-22-2011 08:06 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's going to work out fine for the President. The debt limit is going to be raised, and the voters get to see that the GOP is a radical party incapable of governing.

You are correct, sir. I understand speaking fees for ex-Presidents are really high. He should start lining them up now so as to cash in early in 2013.

(07-22-2011 11:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:40 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:06 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's going to work out fine for the President. The debt limit is going to be raised, and the voters get to see that the GOP is a radical party incapable of governing.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the house republicans went ahead and let us hit the debt ceiling on august 2nd. No better way to get the spending cuts you want and that the country needs. We can pay our bonds, SS, Medicare, and the military, but everything else is instantly cut out. Dems better offer a lot of concessions to the house republicans or we'll hit the limit and default. I see this as a classic example of two groups not being able to negotiate, because there is no middle ground to settle. Dems are in the position of weakness in that they don't want spending cuts, republicans have the power to force spending cuts one way or another. Personally, I don't think the house republicans are too concerned about raising the debt limit and we'll be happy enough to just default. I'm not advocating the wisdom of that, just that it's definitely a possibility.

From a purely political point of view, it would be awesome if the GOPers forced us into a default. They'd cease to be a viable party. We'd give the Great Depression a run for it's money, and the GOP would own it entirely. That's why the GOPers will vote for the plan where the President essentially gets the power to raise the debt ceiling. Then the President gets to campaign on his willingness to compromise for the good of the nation, the GOPer's unwillingness to compromise due to the extremist agenda, and the GOP's inability to govern even on the most important of issues. This is a massive victory for the President.

The savings and investments of the American citizenry should never...i repeat NEVER....be used as a political bargaining chip.

Besides, if the country goes into default the American public will blame everybody. Domestically, there will be no winners and 300,000,000 losers. Of course, Canada and Australia might not mind their new status as issuers of the safest bonds in the world.

You DO realize that "$1 trillion in revenues" comes out of yours and mine's pockets.

In this crappy economy we're in, how does anyone think that it is a GOOD thing to take money out of the citizenry's pockets?

(07-22-2011 08:40 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:06 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's going to work out fine for the President. The debt limit is going to be raised, and the voters get to see that the GOP is a radical party incapable of governing.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the house republicans went ahead and let us hit the debt ceiling on august 2nd. No better way to get the spending cuts you want and that the country needs. We can pay our bonds, SS, Medicare, and the military, but everything else is instantly cut out. Dems better offer a lot of concessions to the house republicans or we'll hit the limit and default. I see this as a classic example of two groups not being able to negotiate, because there is no middle ground to settle. Dems are in the position of weakness in that they don't want spending cuts, republicans have the power to force spending cuts one way or another. Personally, I don't think the house republicans are too concerned about raising the debt limit and we'll be happy enough to just default. I'm not advocating the wisdom of that, just that it's definitely a possibility.

(07-23-2011 12:26 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  You DO realize that "$1 trillion in revenues" comes out of yours and mine's pockets.

In this crappy economy we're in, how does anyone think that it is a GOOD thing to take money out of the citizenry's pockets?

You do realize that the tax increases being talked about weren't going to kick in for two years to give the economy more time to recover? Of course you didn't. That would require some reading and thinking on your part. They sure as hell don't teach that at MTSU.

(07-23-2011 12:26 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  You DO realize that "$1 trillion in revenues" comes out of yours and mine's pockets.

In this crappy economy we're in, how does anyone think that it is a GOOD thing to take money out of the citizenry's pockets?

Im not sure if that was directed at me or not. If it was, here is my response.

If there is an extra few percentage points of taxes, obviously that is not good for our economy. But it isnt the worst case scenario in this whole fiasco.

The worst case is that we default, we get downgraded, our government is forced to immediately cut 40% of its budget which would immediately throw us into a deep recession(basically cutting 10% of our GDP in one month), the US credit markets collapse, companies can no longer make payroll due to lack of available credit, unemployment(public and private sector) soars to 15%, the stock market goes back down below to 9,000 in the span of 2 months, the housing market teetering on the edge of collapse finally succumbs, foreclosures skyrocket, any accumulated wealth of the middle class which mostly is in the form of their homes and in 401ks is gone, Australia becomes the new, safest issuer of debt, and the Yuan becomes the global reserve currency.

That is the worst case scenario. Would all of this happen if we default for an extended period of time? Maybe...maybe not. But why bring it into play?

(07-22-2011 07:38 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  The President took over a half-hour of questions from reporters and thoroughly stomped a mudhole in the GOP for their inability to accept a very good deal. Boehner, on the other hand, took about ten minutes of questions and then bolted for the door. The President offers $3 trillion in cuts in exchange for $1 trillion in revenues (75/25 split), and he still got a no from the GOPers. What we're about to see is a civil war in the GOP between people who have functioning brains and the TeaKlanners. David Brooks nailed it perfectly - the GOP is no longer a normal party and lacks the ability to govern.

Please elaborate on the specifics of this plan and why you support it.

It seems to me that Democrats have lacked the ability to govern for a long time, even when they controlled all 3 branches of government. It also seems to me that the WhiteHouse has lacked the ability to lead from jump.

Who thinks different, not the average John Q.

(07-22-2011 11:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  From a purely political point of view, it would be awesome if the GOPers forced us into a default.

The Democrats control the Senate and the White House. Are you really so ideologically blinded that you think if/when the sh!t hits the fan, they're not going to get splattered, too?

Really?

(07-23-2011 07:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It seems to me that Democrats have lacked the ability to govern for a long time, even when they controlled all 3 branches of government. It also seems to me that the WhiteHouse has lacked the ability to lead from jump.

Who thinks different, not the average John Q.

The frustration of giving the Democrats total control and the seeing them get b!tch slapped at every turn was intense. They can govern (find consensus) but they have no ability to lead. Thank God for Nancy Pelosi or they would have done nothing. Pelosi like her or hate her was an effective leader and she also had a maverick faction called the "Bluedogs" but she delivered on a healthcare bill that was so demonized by the time of the vote it was political suicide for many. Unlike Boehner who really wants to put this debt ceiling deal behind us but his Tea Party freshmen refuse to play ball.

(07-23-2011 07:55 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 11:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  From a purely political point of view, it would be awesome if the GOPers forced us into a default.

The Democrats control the Senate and the White House. Are you really so ideologically blinded that you think if/when the sh!t hits the fan, they're not going to get splattered, too?

Really?

Yes he is.

Because what his pathetic mind fails to grasp is that:
1. The president formed a debt commission then ignored their recommendations.
2. He demanded a "clean" debt ceiling raised, no cuts, and now says he won't sign anything of the kind.
3. He has never, at any point, put a plan to the American people as to what he recommends. Not once. Neither of the democrats. The only party to put forth actual plans, on paper, are the republicans. And the only response they've gotten from Democrats and Obama is to attack them for actually leading.

This "plan" Obama talked about yesterday has never been put on paper, has never been put to the American people. When he was asked for it yesterday by a reporter he said he would give them the tick tock, which is housed in a back room, not for public view. Why not release it to the public? Why not let the public decide if they prefer the president's plan or the republicans? Why? Because he won't release any plan.

A CNN poll this week found that 66% of those polled favored Cut, Cap and Balance. That's a huge majority, yet you see no one, not even CNN who did the poll, report that.

Obama has the gift of a compliant media establishment and card carrying morons like UM, TOGC and Robert who refuse to challenge him on anything. If any republican president had lied and flip flopped as much as Obama has in the last 7 months the media would report it daily.

Obama's press conference yesterday was a farce. I heard one commentator say it was his most arrogant and pompous performance ever, and considering the baseline that's saying a lot.

Obama will not win this debate because reasonable Americans know he and the democrats don't want to cut ANYTHING other than defense. The president essentially said yesterday that if he doesn't get to raise taxes the country will default.

He's not a leader. That is an undisputable fact at this point.

(07-23-2011 08:19 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(07-23-2011 07:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It seems to me that Democrats have lacked the ability to govern for a long time, even when they controlled all 3 branches of government. It also seems to me that the WhiteHouse has lacked the ability to lead from jump.

Who thinks different, not the average John Q.

The frustration of giving the Democrats total control and the seeing them get b!tch slapped at every turn was intense. They can govern (find consensus) but they have no ability to lead. Thank God for Nancy Pelosi or they would have done nothing. Pelosi like her or hate her was an effective leader and she also had a maverick faction called the "Bluedogs" but she delivered on a healthcare bill that was so demonized by the time of the vote it was political suicide for many. Unlike Boehner who really wants to put this debt ceiling deal behind us but his Tea Party freshmen refuse to play ball.

Pelosi accepted the Senate HC Bill and pushed it through using parliamentary procedure. "Deemed passed" IT WAS A despicable act. The "you have to pass the bill to see what's in it " shows just how much of a flake she was and is. Where were you when this was going on ....Mars maybe, had to be some other planet. Your depiction is completely wrong, no surprise there.

Pelosi is a B!tch, pis$ on her.

(07-22-2011 11:51 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:40 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-22-2011 08:06 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's going to work out fine for the President. The debt limit is going to be raised, and the voters get to see that the GOP is a radical party incapable of governing.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the house republicans went ahead and let us hit the debt ceiling on august 2nd. No better way to get the spending cuts you want and that the country needs. We can pay our bonds, SS, Medicare, and the military, but everything else is instantly cut out. Dems better offer a lot of concessions to the house republicans or we'll hit the limit and default. I see this as a classic example of two groups not being able to negotiate, because there is no middle ground to settle. Dems are in the position of weakness in that they don't want spending cuts, republicans have the power to force spending cuts one way or another. Personally, I don't think the house republicans are too concerned about raising the debt limit and we'll be happy enough to just default. I'm not advocating the wisdom of that, just that it's definitely a possibility.

From a purely political point of view, it would be awesome if the GOPers forced us into a default. They'd cease to be a viable party. We'd give the Great Depression a run for it's money, and the GOP would own it entirely. That's why the GOPers will vote for the plan where the President essentially gets the power to raise the debt ceiling. Then the President gets to campaign on his willingness to compromise for the good of the nation, the GOPer's unwillingness to compromise due to the extremist agenda, and the GOP's inability to govern even on the most important of issues. This is a massive victory for the President.

Both parties would get plenty of blame. And I wouldn't be surprised if the president got most of it as he hasn't offered any plan. At least the house republicans offered cut, cap, and balance. You can say they at least tried, what can you say about the president? The CBO says they can't score speeches lol.