Seriously.. why is this so hard for Conservatives to grasp. He has absolutely no reason to release these kinds of things. If the GOP really thought there was something there, don't you think they would have done something about it? This is the same group that tried to kick a guy out of office for getting a Beej in the WH. Yet they'll just let some Kenyan, Muslim be president a decade later? Really? You actually believe that?

The guy doesn't release them because it only helps him in the polls to have conspiracy theorists make fools of themselves instead of getting him on the real issues. Same exact reason GW Bush was fine with 9/11 conspiracy theorists. They make whatever party they represent look stupid, or worse, irrational and dangerous to independent voters. The voters that actually matter.

Who's vote is Obama going to gain by releasing anything? You really think those people on the fringe are going to A) believe they're real anyways, or B) change their vote? I think we both know the answer to those questions. People see what they want to see, it doesn't matter if he releases a damn thing, birthers wouldn't change their mind if he did release anything.

He could release 100 birth certificates if he wanted. He's the president of the United States, you don't think it would be easy for him to get one made that would pass as authentic? You don't think it's easy for POTUS to get a fake school record? Come on now, get real. If it was in his best interest to release one, even if he didn't have a real one, he would have got a fake one by now.

He has no legitimate reason to ever release any of this stuff while still running for office. It only helps his cause to have people bring it up. He thanks you each and every day for the votes you bring to him when you talk about bat-**** crazy conspiracies instead of his terrible record w/ the economy.

(04-25-2011 09:53 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Seriously.. why is this so hard for Conservatives to grasp. He has absolutely no reason to release these kinds of things.

Honesty, Integrity, Consistency aside for the moment, every candidate in my lifetime has released those records. When you campaign on openness and transparency and equivocate and conceal records about your personal life like no other candidate in recent times, then you show an open disregard for those qualities.

(04-25-2011 09:53 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  This is the same group that tried to kick a guy out of office for getting a Beej in the WH.

How shallow, you guys almost 16 years later can't grasp that it wasn't a BJ in the Oval Office that brought Clinton down. So stupid, let me review for you, He lied under oath to congress. Get it you gormless hypocrites. You are trying so hard to be the useless idiots of the professional left, that the transparency issue of the president totally escapes your limited grasp and are completely blind to see any actual facts, just like the reason Clinton was impeached in the House.

So lets hear you Now "It depends on what the meaning of the word is is".

Feckless.

(04-25-2011 07:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 05:15 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  I don't believe he won't release the certificate because he wasn't born here. I think most likely it lists his religion as Muslim and he doesn't want to deal with it.

You wanna explain how exactly a newborn baby has a religion?

You're born muslim much like you're born jewish. It's not something you "accept" at some point in your life. Many states have "religion" as a line item on the birth certificate. Not sure if Hawaii did, but if they did and they put his father's religion as "Islam" as his it could be something that he didn't want to deal with. Remember this all came up in the primaries back in 2008. If it did say that it could have done more damage then as opposed to now.

Quote:You got a cite for how much he paid to have them "sealed" when they are "sealed" by law because they are private information to begin with?

Owl addressed this quite well. Obama made it a point not to release his papers from Harvard in contrast to past precedent in elections. Since there have been several lawsuits attempting to get them released, of which Obama would have had to pay to fight. I think the DOJ picks the tab up now for him, which is a nice perk of the job.

You conveniently ignore the question I asked you in your cherry picking of my post so I'll ask it again. If a republican candidate/president had acted in this fashion, would you not have been suspicious of him? Would not also the media be all over said republican until they were released?

As Owl stated, the bottom line is that Obama has done all he can to keep his past hidden. His entire public profile, from not releasing records to voting Present smacks of a man who doesn't want anyone to see a paper trail of who he really is and how he thinks. It worked. He was elected with virtually no vetting from the media because they adored him.

At this point though a birth certificate or past writings are irrelevant in the grand scheme. The guy was elected. What's important now is the incompetence with which he has governed, which not even the media can hide for him. His lack of qualifications to be president (not talking citizenship there) are on full display every day. What sucks is there is no republican running right now that can serve as a viable alternative to him.

I answered your questions Tom, gonna answer mine? Or you just going to dodge like usual?

(04-25-2011 09:53 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  This is the same group that tried to kick a guy out of office for getting a Beej in the WH. Yet they'll just let some Kenyan, Muslim be president a decade later? Really? You actually believe that?

For someone who actually believes Clinton's impeachment was about a BJ and not the felony of perjury he committed, the felony he later admitted to and was disbarred over after leaving the White House, I don't believe you have any room to condemn anyone for what they think.

Quote:The guy doesn't release them because it only helps him in the polls to have conspiracy theorists make fools of themselves instead of getting him on the real issues. Same exact reason GW Bush was fine with 9/11 conspiracy theorists. They make whatever party they represent look stupid, or worse, irrational and dangerous to independent voters. The voters that actually matter.

Apples and oranges. The idea that Obama has nothing to hide, but chose to hide items from his past as some type of master political stroke is beyond moronic. It really requires a level of sycophantic rationalization that boggles the mind. He refused to release what has always been released in presidential campaigns, and the media gave him a complete pass on it. No republican would ever have gotten a free ride like Obama did. Any effort to deny that fact is beyond pathetic and is completely disassociated from reality. Which most dems are, so....

Quote:Who's vote is Obama going to gain by releasing anything? You really think those people on the fringe are going to A) believe they're real anyways, or B) change their vote?

It's not the fringe voter he wants, it's the independent voter he doesn't want to lose. Thankfully his policies have lost the majority of independent voters to date. Hopefully that will continue through to 2012.

He could release 100 birth certificates if he wanted. He's the president of the United States, you don't think it would be easy for him to get one made that would pass as authentic? You don't think it's easy for POTUS to get a fake school record? Come on now, get real. If it was in his best interest to release one, even if he didn't have a real one, he would have got a fake one by now.

Quote:It only helps his cause to have people bring it up.

The birth certificate maybe. But if the media ever really started asking a question about why he won't release the same information every other presidential candidate has released, it would hurt him. But we know that won't happen.

Niner, I understand what it was about, but the fact they went at him in the first place all goes back to sleeping around on his wife. Something not nearly as big an issue as being a resident of the US.

When you guys (who are obviously intelligent) stop using words like "sealed" and stop alluding to totally disproven theories (Like Ayers writing his book) only to score cheap political points, then I will honestly answer your questions.

You expect facts from me but never seem to want to give the same respect back.

As somebody adriotly mentioned...Obama has many issues to take umbrage with, but the vast majority here seem to want to dwell on 20-30 year old minutia.

But to make you happy...I could care less what someone did in their past (aside from some unpunished criminal activity). I think we all knew Shrub would be a lousy president long before his DWI came to light.

P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

(04-25-2011 11:18 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Niner, I understand what it was about, but the fact they went at him in the first place all goes back to sleeping around on his wife. Something not nearly as big an issue as being a resident of the US.

Oh, I get it. He wasn't already being investigated for Whitewater or the White House FBI files or the White House travel office. Oh and least we forget the Supreme Court ruled he couldn't use executive privilege to avoid testifying in the Linda Tripp sexual harassment case. But go, be blinded.

And since he can never testify in court and be believed, he's a perfect useful idiot for Obama and Hillary.

Hillary is a chump for not dumping his adulterous a$$

Lewinsky alleged nine sexual encounters with Bill Clinton:

1. November 15, 1995, in the private study of the Oval Office
2. November 17, 1995, while Bill Clinton was on the phone with a member of Congress
3. December 31, 1995, in a White House study
4. January 7, 1996, in the Oval Office
5. January 21, 1996, in the hallway by the private study next to the Oval Office
6. February 4, 1996, while Clinton was meeting in the Oval Office
7. March 31, 1996, in the hallway near the study of the Oval Office
8. February 28, 1997, near the Oval Office, when the blue dress stains were created
9. March 29, 1997 (Clinton, however, denied that this day's encounter actually happened.)

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When you guys (who are obviously intelligent) stop using words like "sealed" and stop alluding to totally disproven theories (Like Ayers writing his book) only to score cheap political points, then I will honestly answer your questions.

You expect facts from me but never seem to want to give the same respect back.

As somebody adriotly mentioned...Obama has many issues to take umbrage with, but the vast majority here seem to want to dwell on 20-30 year old minutia.

But to make you happy...I could care less what someone did in their past (aside from some unpunished criminal activity). I think we all knew Shrub would be a lousy president long before his DWI came to light.

P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

Exactly the type of response I expected from you.

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

1) He's STILL not vetted.

2) Palin is STILL more qualified than Obama.

Sum how does that change anything? You're proving my point. You really consider that worse than not being an American citizen? Because that's all that matters. What Obama allegedly is doing is clearly far worse than everything you've listed here, and they had no problem spending their time going after Clinton, yet they just leave Obama alone? Come on.

I didn't think it was necessary to list out the entire case against Bill Clinton, I had assumed everyone here is familiar enough with the case you can just reference the comical point and understand what was implied. Apparently that is expecting too much from some of you.

Clinton should have been impeached over his Loral dealings. His BJ, that was between he and thunder thighs.

(04-25-2011 01:05 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Sum how does that change anything? You're proving my point. You really consider that worse than not being an American citizen? Because that's all that matters. What Obama allegedly is doing is clearly far worse than everything you've listed here, and they had no problem spending their time going after Clinton, yet they just leave Obama alone? Come on.

I didn't think it was necessary to list out the entire case against Bill Clinton, I had assumed everyone here is familiar enough with the case you can just reference the comical point and understand what was implied. Apparently that is expecting too much from some of you.

I understand, but these are different times. Nobody has time for doing anything but trying to keep the economy from going over the cliff. I grantee you a special prosecutor would have been appointed if we were investigating an old white man. It's a huge sh!t sandwich and we all are gonna have to take a big bite. It angers me and I try to spit it out unlike the loony left that's getting it shoveled down their throats and beg for more. Eat up boys.

It's not like the economy was great when Clinton took office. That argument is simply hollow. (And before you go there, yes, obviously it's worse now than then, but the point stands).

We just spent millions and plenty of time on a case to put Barry Bonds in jail for lying to the government about something as trivial as steroids in sports. They're putting together an anti-trust lawsuit for the BCS. We clearly still have plenty of time and money to worry about trivial things. I'd have to think if we're going to waste a single day on that nonsense, you could find the resources to worry about something that actually matters.

You really think the GOP is so useless that they can't put together the resources to find out the POTUS isn't a resident? In the end, that's what you're saying here. Either the GOP is so inept they can't prove the guy is not an American citizen, or they're so afraid of not getting re-elected that they're unwilling to stand up for the American constitution. Either way.. it's pretty pathetic.

Think about what the implies about the GOP party.. how can any conservative in their right mind vote for a single Republican that is currently in office, if they really think they're just sitting idly by while a Kenyan, Muslim who has no right to be the president is running our country into the ground?

It's a racial thing, they don't want a race war with the NBP leading the way. I said it earlier, if we investigating an old white man, impeachment would have already begun.

All that needs saying is right here.

(04-25-2011 12:34 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When you guys (who are obviously intelligent) stop using words like "sealed" and stop alluding to totally disproven theories (Like Ayers writing his book) only to score cheap political points, then I will honestly answer your questions.

You expect facts from me but never seem to want to give the same respect back.

As somebody adriotly mentioned...Obama has many issues to take umbrage with, but the vast majority here seem to want to dwell on 20-30 year old minutia.

But to make you happy...I could care less what someone did in their past (aside from some unpunished criminal activity). I think we all knew Shrub would be a lousy president long before his DWI came to light.

P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

Exactly the type of response I expected from you.

You are most welcome. Have a nice day.

(04-25-2011 12:38 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

1) He's STILL not vetted.

2) Palin is STILL more qualified than Obama.

Says the King of Uncertain Certainty and Empty Opinions!

(04-25-2011 02:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 12:34 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When you guys (who are obviously intelligent) stop using words like "sealed" and stop alluding to totally disproven theories (Like Ayers writing his book) only to score cheap political points, then I will honestly answer your questions.

You expect facts from me but never seem to want to give the same respect back.

As somebody adriotly mentioned...Obama has many issues to take umbrage with, but the vast majority here seem to want to dwell on 20-30 year old minutia.

But to make you happy...I could care less what someone did in their past (aside from some unpunished criminal activity). I think we all knew Shrub would be a lousy president long before his DWI came to light.

P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

Exactly the type of response I expected from you.

You are most welcome. Have a nice day.

It wasn't a praise junior.

I had high hopes you were a different type of liberal on here. Unfortunately you just like all the others. Long on cliches and short on deductive logic and reasoning.

Keep that head in the sand.

(04-25-2011 10:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 09:53 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Seriously.. why is this so hard for Conservatives to grasp. He has absolutely no reason to release these kinds of things.

Honesty, Integrity, Consistency aside for the moment, every candidate in my lifetime has released those records. When you campaign on openness and transparency and equivocate and conceal records about your personal life like no other candidate in recent times, then you show an open disregard for those qualities.

+1,000

(04-25-2011 11:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  When you guys (who are obviously intelligent) stop using words like "sealed" and stop alluding to totally disproven theories (Like Ayers writing his book) only to score cheap political points, then I will honestly answer your questions.

You expect facts from me but never seem to want to give the same respect back.

As somebody adriotly mentioned...Obama has many issues to take umbrage with, but the vast majority here seem to want to dwell on 20-30 year old minutia.

But to make you happy...I could care less what someone did in their past (aside from some unpunished criminal activity). I think we all knew Shrub would be a lousy president long before his DWI came to light.

P.S.: This tired old rubbish about Obama not being vetted still holds no water and you know it. Cripes, it took all of about 2 weeks to find out Palin was not ready for prime time. Face it, there is no there there!

I find it hypocritical that you argue over the minutiae of "sealed" versus "intentionally not released like everyone else even when requested" to excuse your unwillingness to respond to questions, but then chastise others for arguing their own minutiae. FTR, Obama's honesty isn't a 30 yr old issue. While you expect that from his "enemies", There are many on the left who feel they were sold out.... which is just a euphamism for being lied to. If we can't expect him to be forthcoming... which, as you seem to want correct languange... means voluntarily coming forward with information, not waiting to be asked the right questions, and CERTAINLY not refusing to disclose relatively basic information... or offering alternatives when the specific documents clearly exist... HOW can we believe anything else he says?

His budget was a lie... the CBO said so and he even agreed.. His signature issue of infrastructure investment requires spending he hasn't budgeted for... and his revenue projections are not only high, but contain future "savings" based upon "hope". That isn't a budget.

The CBO said the same thing about Ryan's budget too. If that's your issue, then you can't believe a thing any Republican says either, so I don't know what your argument is.

Here's the thing. If you think GOP members really believe he's a Kenyan, how in the world can you believe anything they say or vote for them, if they aren't willing to do something about it? Do you really think Republicans are that pathetic, they would just let a Kenyan stay in office? Where's the respect for the GOP?

Your complaint is that you can't trust Obama. How can you trust a GOP member who won't stand up for the constitution and the country he serves? You can't have it both ways.


Sum your first comment was that it was about the economy, so now that has nothing to do with it? Now it's just race?

At some point you just have to realize.. that if this grand conspiracy is true, and all these conservatives actually realize he's not a legitimate president but refuse to do anything about it, the GOP needs to just give up. Just.. give up, it's over, you lost. It's basically accusing them of treason, they're betraying both their country and political party, how can you have a political party that allows this to happen? At least the other party believes he's an American citizen. What is conservative's excuse? If they're knowingly letting a Kenyan be the POTUS just because he's black.. it's time to move on. Start a third party, because this one just rolled over and died.

Seriously.. just quit. You no longer get to be a politician, that's it, take your ball and go home, you failed. You have no business serving this country if you're letting a Kenyan run the country just b/c he's black and you're afraid of being called a racist.