(10-10-2026 05:20 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Playing catch up on the conference realignment board from last couple of days....I guess I'm misreading this 22 indy conference idea...its not for 6 ACCs and Bama, Texas, etc P1...its the temporary 3 year waiting period league...made up of 6+ from ACC heading to SEC and Big 10, and some non P4 friends?

They want to allow PE bundling AND get rid of the three year wait. It doesn’t look like a stop gap from where I am sitting.

(10-10-2026 08:28 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 04:57 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 09:25 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 06:21 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 03:57 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  A request by four schools to raise the conference membership cap to 22 could be taken as evidentiary support for this much of the hypothesis.

That makes room for 10 new members in those leagues. Upcoming CFP overhauls may already offer incentive enough to expand with multiple schools in one go.

I see no evidence to support a suggestion that ACC members would be interested in conference dissolution or in mass migration to the Monster 12, but I’m open to persuasion.

The exit fee “wash” is an interesting idea.

__

That is just one way to interpret this. There are two others:

1. They want the cap at 22 so that all four can go to the Big Ten.

2. They want 22 so that all four PLUS 2 other schools not mentioned can join them in the SEC (maybe NC State and Va Tech?).

3. They have been in discussion with PE and there are 18 schools amongst the other A4 conferences that are ideal for a P1.

I stepped away yesterday to head to the game last night...deleted a couple of rushed nonsense posts so I wouldn't get flamed anymore...because I do want to keep this a sensible discussion...

So, can I point out this is both intriguing to hear about and possibly just as dreamlandish as my over the top 12 leave the ACC at once idea? Why would a P1 of 22 schools even happen? Are we saying Texas, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Bama, etc are leaving their posts to join a P1...Is this the English Premiere League for college football people are clamoring for, and leave rest of the schools behind?

I could see the P2 Super League with 40-48 happen and park rest of the sports in regional conferences well before a P1 of 22 happens....I need more info on this, or its fantsyful idea like a mass movement into a P3 all at once.

The key difference is I am talking about the outlawing of PE bundling being dropped from the PCSA—which some schools have put back on the table.

PE bundling was specifically not wanted by the B1G and SEC because it would be the mechanism to fund a P1.

Your scenario becomes realistic if the outlawing of PE bundling is dropped from the PCSA as well, because it’s essentially the only way a fell swoop could work. An outside entity funding everything at once

There's no way these schools are going to get their wish on this. If they get the bill changed, it just means it's dead and they are stuck in CFB purgatory (along with every other school) without any controls on NIL escalation, etc.

Oh, and now you've made enemies in the B1G and the SEC.

(10-10-2026 12:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 08:28 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 04:57 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 09:25 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 06:21 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  That is just one way to interpret this. There are two others:

1. They want the cap at 22 so that all four can go to the Big Ten.

2. They want 22 so that all four PLUS 2 other schools not mentioned can join them in the SEC (maybe NC State and Va Tech?).

3. They have been in discussion with PE and there are 18 schools amongst the other A4 conferences that are ideal for a P1.

I stepped away yesterday to head to the game last night...deleted a couple of rushed nonsense posts so I wouldn't get flamed anymore...because I do want to keep this a sensible discussion...

So, can I point out this is both intriguing to hear about and possibly just as dreamlandish as my over the top 12 leave the ACC at once idea? Why would a P1 of 22 schools even happen? Are we saying Texas, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Bama, etc are leaving their posts to join a P1...Is this the English Premiere League for college football people are clamoring for, and leave rest of the schools behind?

I could see the P2 Super League with 40-48 happen and park rest of the sports in regional conferences well before a P1 of 22 happens....I need more info on this, or its fantsyful idea like a mass movement into a P3 all at once.

The key difference is I am talking about the outlawing of PE bundling being dropped from the PCSA—which some schools have put back on the table.

PE bundling was specifically not wanted by the B1G and SEC because it would be the mechanism to fund a P1.

Your scenario becomes realistic if the outlawing of PE bundling is dropped from the PCSA as well, because it’s essentially the only way a fell swoop could work. An outside entity funding everything at once

There's no way these schools are going to get their wish on this. If they get the bill changed, it just means it's dead and they are stuck in CFB purgatory (along with every other school) without any controls on NIL escalation, etc.

Oh, and now you've made enemies in the B1G and the SEC.

As I stated in my first post about it, I think it may be a bold over-asking tactic. But we know they have consulted with PE (as has everyone) so it isn't as far-fetched as it initially seems as these four are all top 15-20 brands.

My belief is their priority is getting the 3-year rule totally eliminated.

Second order of business would be to move the cap up to 22. My theory is at 20, the cap is actually 18 for the SEC and 18/19 for the B1G in practical operation as neither conference will want to max out—at least anytime in the near future. That would mean only 3/4 would be granted a media contract upgrade.

PSA: I do not want Carolina to leave, never have, and I am tired of folks using it against me like I am somehow not able to be objective.

(10-10-2026 04:12 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 12:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 08:28 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 04:57 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-09-2026 09:25 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  3. They have been in discussion with PE and there are 18 schools amongst the other A4 conferences that are ideal for a P1.

I stepped away yesterday to head to the game last night...deleted a couple of rushed nonsense posts so I wouldn't get flamed anymore...because I do want to keep this a sensible discussion...

So, can I point out this is both intriguing to hear about and possibly just as dreamlandish as my over the top 12 leave the ACC at once idea? Why would a P1 of 22 schools even happen? Are we saying Texas, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Bama, etc are leaving their posts to join a P1...Is this the English Premiere League for college football people are clamoring for, and leave rest of the schools behind?

I could see the P2 Super League with 40-48 happen and park rest of the sports in regional conferences well before a P1 of 22 happens....I need more info on this, or its fantsyful idea like a mass movement into a P3 all at once.

The key difference is I am talking about the outlawing of PE bundling being dropped from the PCSA—which some schools have put back on the table.

PE bundling was specifically not wanted by the B1G and SEC because it would be the mechanism to fund a P1.

Your scenario becomes realistic if the outlawing of PE bundling is dropped from the PCSA as well, because it’s essentially the only way a fell swoop could work. An outside entity funding everything at once

There's no way these schools are going to get their wish on this. If they get the bill changed, it just means it's dead and they are stuck in CFB purgatory (along with every other school) without any controls on NIL escalation, etc.

Oh, and now you've made enemies in the B1G and the SEC.

As I stated in my first post about it, I think it may be a bold over-asking tactic. But we know they have consulted with PE (as has everyone) so it isn't as far-fetched as it initially seems as these four are all top 15-20 brands.

My belief is their priority is getting the 3-year rule totally eliminated.

Second order of business would be to move the cap up to 22. My theory is at 20, the cap is actually 18 for the SEC and 18/19 for the B1G in practical operation as neither conference will want to max out—at least anytime in the near future. That would mean only 3/4 would be granted a media contract upgrade.

PSA: I do not want Carolina to leave, never have, and I am tired of folks using it against me like I am somehow not able to be objective.

But the top six programs of ACC believe or want to believe the cap is 22 so all six can go to P2.

ESPN & ACC worked together to turn off the FSU/Clemson lawsuits, claiming the desire repeatedly for the ACC to be a conference schools should want to be in.
Thoughts on ESPN doing something similar with ACC + SEC?
Something along the lines of: ACC, it’s UNC + UVA to SEC because eventually it’s gonna happen anyway (of course, ACC still gains fees). In return, we’ll support you peeling off your top 2 (or 3?) favorites from the B12 (described fees applied).
And that accomplishes getting at least UNC off the list of teams protesting the PCSA.

(10-10-2026 05:09 PM)OrangemanRich Wrote:  ESPN & ACC worked together to turn off the FSU/Clemson lawsuits, claiming the desire repeatedly for the ACC to be a conference schools should want to be in.
Thoughts on ESPN doing something similar with ACC + SEC?
Something along the lines of: ACC, it’s UNC + UVA to SEC because eventually it’s gonna happen anyway (of course, ACC still gains fees). In return, we’ll support you peeling off your top 2 (or 3?) favorites from the B12 (described fees applied).
And that accomplishes getting at least UNC off the list of teams protesting the PCSA.

Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it. That's the annoying irony of it all. ESPN took our quaint little town and built it up. They're responsible.

The schools support the PCSA in the main. They are doing what people have a right to do: telling elected representatives what they want.

We have already seen Texas Tech and Washington State do this. Everyone can. It’s only fair.

Expect this particular Fab Four to hang together throughout House consideration of the bill.

(10-10-2026 12:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  There's no way these schools are going to get their wish on this. If they get the bill changed, it just means it's dead and they are stuck in CFB purgatory (along with every other school) without any controls on NIL escalation, etc.

Oh, and now you've made enemies in the B1G and the SEC.

If the PCSA expires, there’s always another Congress.

And the text of this bill doesn’t disappear like Snapchat. It remains for reference.

Imagining the four schools “have made enemies in the B1G and SEC” by expressing their wishes is unrealistic (though for some it may hold appeal as a revenge fantasy).

What is the outcome the squawkers fear? They are afraid the B1G and SEC will approve and take advantage of the higher conference cap these schools have proposed.

They don’t worry the P2 will balk. They worry the P2 will strike up the conga.

(10-10-2026 05:54 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 05:09 PM)OrangemanRich Wrote:  ESPN & ACC worked together to turn off the FSU/Clemson lawsuits, claiming the desire repeatedly for the ACC to be a conference schools should want to be in.
Thoughts on ESPN doing something similar with ACC + SEC?
Something along the lines of: ACC, it’s UNC + UVA to SEC because eventually it’s gonna happen anyway (of course, ACC still gains fees). In return, we’ll support you peeling off your top 2 (or 3?) favorites from the B12 (described fees applied).
And that accomplishes getting at least UNC off the list of teams protesting the PCSA.

Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it. That's the annoying irony of it all. ESPN took our quaint little town and built it up. They're responsible.

Right, as I said it’s gonna happen anyway.
So, grease the skids, make it less painful on ACC, & turn off at least 1 PCSA protester.

(10-10-2026 05:54 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it.
....

(10-10-2026 07:07 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 05:54 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it.
....

Yep, it's up to ESPN now. They've been waffling about too long, time for their bell cow to test the waters.

(10-10-2026 10:04 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 07:07 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 05:54 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it.
....

Yep, it's up to ESPN now. They've been waffling about too long, time for their bell cow to test the waters.
....

Cope copety cope cope.

Get in line, and try to be a bit faster in feeling the beat.

(10-10-2026 10:26 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 10:04 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 07:07 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-10-2026 05:54 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Unfortunately, I think Carolina is leaving no matter what. There are some major infrastructure upgrades in the works and the extra coin is necessary.

Unless of course ESPN wants to keep this conference they put together intact by throwing some more money at it.
....

Yep, it's up to ESPN now. They've been waffling about too long, time for their bell cow to test the waters.
....

Cope copety cope cope.

Get in line, and try to be a bit faster in feeling the beat.

Nobody wants FSU. That's the difference between the bell cow and the smelly kid.

Lately we are seeing confirmation, if we still needed it, that the stance of the UNC administration on realignment and the myths some UNC fans here prefer to imagine are two very different things.

Well before the P2 revenue gap ceased to be “rude” to mention here, university administrators in North Carolina were facing reality and making plans—as were their counterparts in South Carolina and Florida.

The stance of these real decision makers accounts for every development we have tracked here. The hiring of attorneys to investigate the ACC grant of rights. The appearance of the University of North Carolina and North Carolina State University on the “Magnificent Seven” list leaked to national press through Brett Murphy. The dissent of UNC and near-dissent of NCSU in ACC expansion. The appearance now of UNC in a PCSA request group that is 3/4 identical to the list of expansion dissenters a few years ago.

For the last five years at minimum, if you have really wanted to know the attitude of university leaders in NC to realignment, you have been better off watching what Clemson does rather than credit what NC fans say. They are that far behind the curve in talking points.

And this is still a good, practical way to go about it. For the latest insights, watch what university leaders do, in both Carolinas. Especially keep an eye on Clemson.

Fans are all over the place, Some are more dedicated to telling their favourite stories and making obsessive attempts at one-upmanship over really observing what’s going on and following developments. In time these will follow their leaders anyway, and rationalize as necessary.

It’s always a good rule of thumb in these things. Pay attention to the people who pay attention. Especially those whose job it is to look ahead, and to decide.

If you’ve ever read anything I’ve written instead of parroting the same talking points about some one at some point calling you rude about mentioning a revenue gap and attributing them to me you know the following:

I’ve never pretended the ACC made as much money as the B1G and SEC nor did I call you rude for mentioning a revenue gap. Please show me where. I’ve always maintained there is no magic combination to catching them including the mythical “P3.” That ship sailed when Texas joined the SEC.

I’ve always maintained Carolina was leaving with an invitation, just like about 100 or so other FBS schools. The outside chance ESPN pays UNC to stay where we are with a hybrid deal is a personal preference, but not something I find as likely. Please show me otherwise.

The difference between you and I is that I have always operated with the understanding an invitation must come first. Carolina’s recent actions strongly point towards something already in the works vs chasing hypothetical. However, B1G and SEC officials say otherwise.

Smooth segue to it being rich of you to speak of listening and observing those who are making decisions because if you took your own advice then you would be aware of what B1G and SEC commissions are saying. But of course, you don’t pay any attention to that.

Your tactic has been to lump me in with things I’ve never said and to skew the message enough to discredit me. That’s called slander. Perhaps you’re just ignorant or maybe have a terrible memory. I suppose I could give you the benefit of the doubt, but it’s been going on for a while now.

Let’s see some receipts to back up what you say.

Let the record show:

Exhibit A, May 2023. Our defendant speaking of the newly minted Mag 7:

(05-15-2023 02:08 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I was off by one, I had Duke and not Virginia Tech.

It seems to me perhaps they are exploring a way to “Mountain West” the “WAC” whilst keeping the guaranteed payouts intact somehow, but then garnering a boost from ESPN for the Seven. That or straight up joining the SEC with an eighth from somewhere else, JR’s pick of Kansas makes a lot of sense.

Now that we got that out of the way, let's get back to brass tacks.

When we are talking a P2 who in the ACC should be apart of it? For that kind of $ you have to deliver more than just a market, you have to deliver ratings as well. Totaling the ratings numbers from the ACC Ratings Tracker thread from last season & adding this seasons numbers, this is our ratings standing. Clearly there are only 4 or 5 that deliver both. Most of the rest would be quality members of a P3 or Mid 1, whichever you prefer to call it.

ACC Rating Rankings 2025-26 Total
1 Miami 46.355M
2 FSU 41.65M
3 Clemson 38.587M
4 GT 31.299M
5 NC 25.376M
6 Pitt 17.829M
7 Louisville 16.426M
8 Virginia Tech 14.704M
9 Virginia 13.07M
10 Syracuse 12.827M
11 Stanford 11.23M
12 NC State 10.808M
13 SMU 10.797M
14 Cal 8.827M
15 Wake Forest 8.803M
16 Duke 6.804M
17 BC 5.962M

FSU may be the public face of an ACC separation but I find it hard to believe they are the only ones working behind the scenes. There are no bad guys here, these schools are looking out for themselves & it’s business. I wish Louisville was one of the ones working behind the scenes. Frankly, I think we deserve to be there over Purdue, Vandy & such. I’m hoping this works out for everyone.

(10-11-2026 09:05 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  When we are talking a P2 who in the ACC should be apart of it? For that kind of $ you have to deliver more than just a market, you have to deliver ratings as well. Totaling the ratings numbers from the ACC Ratings Tracker thread from last season & adding this seasons numbers, this is our ratings standing. Clearly there are only 4 or 5 that deliver both. Most of the rest would be quality members of a P3 or Mid 1, whichever you prefer to call it.

ACC Rating Rankings 2025-26 Total
1 Miami 46.355M
2 FSU 41.65M
3 Clemson 38.587M
4 GT 31.299M
5 NC 25.376M
6 Pitt 17.829M
7 Louisville 16.426M
8 Virginia Tech 14.704M
9 Virginia 13.07M
10 Syracuse 12.827M
11 Stanford 11.23M
12 NC State 10.808M
13 SMU 10.797M
14 Cal 8.827M
15 Wake Forest 8.803M
16 Duke 6.804M
17 BC 5.962M

FSU may be the public face of an ACC separation but I find it hard to believe they are the only ones working behind the scenes. There are no bad guys here, these schools are looking out for themselves & it’s business. I wish Louisville was one of the ones working behind the scenes. Frankly, I think we deserve to be there over Purdue, Vandy & such. I’m hoping this works out for everyone.

Interesting the top 5, Pittsburgh may come as a surprise 6.

(10-11-2026 02:01 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  Lately we are seeing confirmation, if we still needed it, that the stance of the UNC administration on realignment and the myths some UNC fans here prefer to imagine are two very different things.

Well before the P2 revenue gap ceased to be “rude” to mention here, university administrators in North Carolina were facing reality and making plans—as were their counterparts in South Carolina and Florida.

The stance of these real decision makers accounts for every development we have tracked here. The hiring of attorneys to investigate the ACC grant of rights. The appearance of the University of North Carolina and North Carolina State University on the “Magnificent Seven” list leaked to national press through Brett Murphy. The dissent of UNC and near-dissent of NCSU in ACC expansion. The appearance now of UNC in a PCSA request group that is 3/4 identical to the list of expansion dissenters a few years ago.

For the last five years at minimum, if you have really wanted to know the attitude of university leaders in NC to realignment, you have been better off watching what Clemson does rather than credit what NC fans say. They are that far behind the curve in talking points.

And this is still a good, practical way to go about it. For the latest insights, watch what university leaders do, in both Carolinas. Especially keep an eye on Clemson.

Fans are all over the place, Some are more dedicated to telling their favourite stories and making obsessive attempts at one-upmanship over really observing what’s going on and following developments. In time these will follow their leaders anyway, and rationalize as necessary.

It’s always a good rule of thumb in these things. Pay attention to the people who pay attention. Especially those whose job it is to look ahead, and to decide.

I hate to break in on a spirited discussion but I'll have to agree with the last statement (bolded).

There is, however, a difference between being prepared to make an informed decision and attempting to orchestrate a situation to the point where you are trying to influence it to gain your own desired outcome, and then trying to lump yourself in with others claiming, "well they are doing it too".

True discernment is quiet and subtle.

(10-11-2026 09:05 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  When we are talking a P2 who in the ACC should be apart of it? For that kind of $ you have to deliver more than just a market, you have to deliver ratings as well. Totaling the ratings numbers from the ACC Ratings Tracker thread from last season & adding this seasons numbers, this is our ratings standing. Clearly there are only 4 or 5 that deliver both. Most of the rest would be quality members of a P3 or Mid 1, whichever you prefer to call it.

ACC Rating Rankings 2025-26 Total
1 Miami 46.355M
2 FSU 41.65M
3 Clemson 38.587M
4 GT 31.299M
5 NC 25.376M
6 Pitt 17.829M
7 Louisville 16.426M
8 Virginia Tech 14.704M
9 Virginia 13.07M
10 Syracuse 12.827M
11 Stanford 11.23M
12 NC State 10.808M
13 SMU 10.797M
14 Cal 8.827M
15 Wake Forest 8.803M
16 Duke 6.804M
17 BC 5.962M

FSU may be the public face of an ACC separation but I find it hard to believe they are the only ones working behind the scenes. There are no bad guys here, these schools are looking out for themselves & it’s business. I wish Louisville was one of the ones working behind the scenes. Frankly, I think we deserve to be there over Purdue, Vandy & such. I’m hoping this works out for everyone.

To get a more complete picture, you'd have to add in basketball tv numbers as well (which are hard to come by, but ESPN definitely has at their disposal).