(09-22-2026 04:14 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  Thanks for another post about UIW in a Chicago St thread!

It's not about UIW per se. That school is in your name and in your root for underneath. There's not a lot of difference between the two, yet you rail against CSU often.

That's like me saying Texas A&M Corpus Christi and/or Little Rock don't have what it takes because they don't have football. Anyone on the surface would question that belief as I, too, have my school in the name and root for category and UTA, with small differences, is in the same boat. It would appear hypocritical.

That said, if you genuinely believe CSU doesn't belong, and I believe that is your stance, you have to differentiate your rooting interest from your stance on CSU.

I just see a program that started football in 2009 to join FCS, which happened in 2013. I see a program that underfunded sports and has poor facilities. I see a program that took five years to get a winning season and still has an overall losing record, despite four appearances in the FCS playoffs.

Change a few of these things and it looks a lot like Chicago State. As for all-sports, CSU went up against Grand Canyon, New Mexico State and Utah Valley. UIW goes up against far less. CSU made the volleyball tournament in 2024. After winning the regular season and tournament, they played in an NCAA sanctioned postseason event. That was because of football. It is also one more than all of UIW's Southland sports combined since joining in 2013.

If it is so bad for Chicago State and you root for something similar, the hypocritical stance will catch notice.

UIW or any school’s record in 2013 and before, might as well have been 800 years ago. BYU is able to buy #1 recruits and Indiana won the national title in football last year. That wasn’t possible 15 years ago.

Chicago St probably decided to roll out their program in less than a year, so they wouldn’t have to pay coaches and board students for a year in which they couldn’t be sacrificial lambs to Tarleton St. What does volleyball have to do with football? They played GCU, NMSU, and Utah Valley? That’s great, those schools along with yours, invited UIW to join them in the WAC. Really good chance that if UIW wouldn’t have reversed course, UTA and UIW would be in the same conference now.

UIW has about an $188M endowment, that’s only about $45M less than UTA even though UTA has 45,000 students to UIW’s 9,000. That’s pretty sad. Chicago St has a $10M endowment, and 2,500 students.

Let's break this up, though I feel the shelf life is nearing the end and I'm beating a dead horse.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW or any school’s record in 2013 and before, might as well have been 800 years ago. BYU is able to buy #1 recruits and Indiana won the national title in football last year. That wasn’t possible 15 years ago.

Then what does Chicago State's history have to do with anything? You brought up their losing ways prior to starting football. UIW is broke and have been sued by their own athletes. Chicago State is broke and has not. Both are broke. The current era means little if you don't have money.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  Chicago St probably decided to roll out their program in less than a year, so they wouldn’t have to pay coaches and board students for a year in which they couldn’t be sacrificial lambs to Tarleton St.

That's like, your opinion man. There's nothing concrete as far as sources go. If they don't have revenue like you said and make negative gameday money, it would be in their best interest to not field a team. You can't have it both ways.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  What does volleyball have to do with football? They played GCU, NMSU, and Utah Valley?

You cited their history of not winning as an athletic department. They were dominant in the NEC in volleyball that year. The NEC is just a hair below the Southland and yet UIW has not won anything in the SLC but football. I pointed out Chicago State played harder conference opponents, which contributed to their lack of success. UIW cannot say the same.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  That’s great, those schools along with yours, invited UIW to join them in the WAC. Really good chance that if UIW wouldn’t have reversed course, UTA and UIW would be in the same conference now.

Yes, though the vote was prior to UTA joining. I don't have a problem as a whole with UIW. UTA plays them often in many sports. They would have been an RPI drag however. There were many, within UTA and out, that were happy UIW reneged at the last minute. Though, that again illustrates their lack of a budget. My personal opinion is play who is in front of you and move on. Were that UIW, then so be it.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW has about an $188M endowment, that’s only about $45M less than UTA even though UTA has 45,000 students to UIW’s 9,000. That’s pretty sad. Chicago St has a $10M endowment, and 2,500 students.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but UTA's endowment was over $200 million in 2021. UIW's enrollment seems to be a point of contention. I've seen roughly 4,500 to 9,500. Either way, low $$$ for a private school. But looking at the "big boys" endowment then arguing at our level is like arguing over who has the larger micro-wiener. Neither is gonna get you on a film shoot.

And Chicago State's endowment is not a surprise to anyone. They are trying to reverse that trend with football. No one knows if it will work, but I give them credit for trying.

Setting the record straight, from a common source. Three schools each on a different level.

Chicago State endowment $8.51M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/ch...university

WIU endowment was $97.4M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/we...university

UTA endowment was $223M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/th...-arlington

and just for fun (so you can't say I ducked my own school)

SJSU endowment was $208M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/sa...university

(09-23-2026 11:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Setting the record straight, from a common source. Three schools each on a different level.

Chicago State endowment $8.51M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/ch...university

WIU endowment was $97.4M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/we...university

UTA endowment was $223M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/th...-arlington

and just for fun (so you can't say I ducked my own school)

SJSU endowment was $208M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/sa...university

I showed up to this thread late but I don’t think WIU (Western Illinois) is being discussed. UIW is Incarnate Word in San Antonio. Do I know how a Chicago St football thread turned into one about two schools in Texas? I do not.

Look I think any criticism of Chicago St is fair. The school is a money pit. Their enrollment doesn’t justify keeping it open and they are using athletes to pad the enrollment. Due to sparse resources, their athletics are all under funded and horrible. The people running the place have demonstrated incompetence (anyone recall the hijacked zoom call because no one there knew how to put people on silent?) and wastefulness. Academically, hardly anyone actually graduates. And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

(09-23-2026 09:38 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Let's break this up, though I feel the shelf life is nearing the end and I'm beating a dead horse.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW or any school’s record in 2013 and before, might as well have been 800 years ago. BYU is able to buy #1 recruits and Indiana won the national title in football last year. That wasn’t possible 15 years ago.

Then what does Chicago State's history have to do with anything? You brought up their losing ways prior to starting football. UIW is broke and have been sued by their own athletes. Chicago State is broke and has not. Both are broke. The current era means little if you don't have money.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  Chicago St probably decided to roll out their program in less than a year, so they wouldn’t have to pay coaches and board students for a year in which they couldn’t be sacrificial lambs to Tarleton St.

That's like, your opinion man. There's nothing concrete as far as sources go. If they don't have revenue like you said and make negative gameday money, it would be in their best interest to not field a team. You can't have it both ways.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  What does volleyball have to do with football? They played GCU, NMSU, and Utah Valley?

You cited their history of not winning as an athletic department. They were dominant in the NEC in volleyball that year. The NEC is just a hair below the Southland and yet UIW has not won anything in the SLC but football. I pointed out Chicago State played harder conference opponents, which contributed to their lack of success. UIW cannot say the same.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  That’s great, those schools along with yours, invited UIW to join them in the WAC. Really good chance that if UIW wouldn’t have reversed course, UTA and UIW would be in the same conference now.

Yes, though the vote was prior to UTA joining. I don't have a problem as a whole with UIW. UTA plays them often in many sports. They would have been an RPI drag however. There were many, within UTA and out, that were happy UIW reneged at the last minute. Though, that again illustrates their lack of a budget. My personal opinion is play who is in front of you and move on. Were that UIW, then so be it.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW has about an $188M endowment, that’s only about $45M less than UTA even though UTA has 45,000 students to UIW’s 9,000. That’s pretty sad. Chicago St has a $10M endowment, and 2,500 students.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but UTA's endowment was over $200 million in 2021. UIW's enrollment seems to be a point of contention. I've seen roughly 4,500 to 9,500. Either way, low $$$ for a private school. But looking at the "big boys" endowment then arguing at our level is like arguing over who has the larger micro-wiener. Neither is gonna get you on a film shoot.

And Chicago State's endowment is not a surprise to anyone. They are trying to reverse that trend with football. No one knows if it will work, but I give them credit for trying.

You even singled out the section about endowment and still didn’t read it. I suggest you go back and actually read it, instead of rage replying.

Here is the numbers for UIW endowment: $188M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/un...rnate-word

And just so (as Just Joe said) you can't say I ducked my own schools:

Abilene Christian - $822M in 2024
Tarleton - $112M in 2024:

(09-23-2026 11:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Setting the record straight, from a common source. Three schools each on a different level.

Chicago State endowment $8.51M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/ch...university

WIU endowment was $97.4M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/we...university

UTA endowment was $223M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/th...-arlington

and just for fun (so you can't say I ducked my own school)

SJSU endowment was $208M in 2024
https://datausa.io/profile/university/sa...university

Like the UTA poster said, both schools are not endowed and will not star in any film shoots with their micro wieners unless it’s a niche fetish type. Both schools suck at being FB programs as they don’t have any fans. One has terrible facilities and the other doesn’t have even have a stadium.

My bad

Incarnate Word Endowment is $188M
https://datausa.io/profile/university/un...rnate-word

And for perspective into how small these numbers are, UCLA's endowment is $3.53B
https://datausa.io/profile/university/un...os-angeles

(09-24-2026 08:28 AM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2026 09:38 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Let's break this up, though I feel the shelf life is nearing the end and I'm beating a dead horse.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW or any school’s record in 2013 and before, might as well have been 800 years ago. BYU is able to buy #1 recruits and Indiana won the national title in football last year. That wasn’t possible 15 years ago.

Then what does Chicago State's history have to do with anything? You brought up their losing ways prior to starting football. UIW is broke and have been sued by their own athletes. Chicago State is broke and has not. Both are broke. The current era means little if you don't have money.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  Chicago St probably decided to roll out their program in less than a year, so they wouldn’t have to pay coaches and board students for a year in which they couldn’t be sacrificial lambs to Tarleton St.

That's like, your opinion man. There's nothing concrete as far as sources go. If they don't have revenue like you said and make negative gameday money, it would be in their best interest to not field a team. You can't have it both ways.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  What does volleyball have to do with football? They played GCU, NMSU, and Utah Valley?

You cited their history of not winning as an athletic department. They were dominant in the NEC in volleyball that year. The NEC is just a hair below the Southland and yet UIW has not won anything in the SLC but football. I pointed out Chicago State played harder conference opponents, which contributed to their lack of success. UIW cannot say the same.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  That’s great, those schools along with yours, invited UIW to join them in the WAC. Really good chance that if UIW wouldn’t have reversed course, UTA and UIW would be in the same conference now.

Yes, though the vote was prior to UTA joining. I don't have a problem as a whole with UIW. UTA plays them often in many sports. They would have been an RPI drag however. There were many, within UTA and out, that were happy UIW reneged at the last minute. Though, that again illustrates their lack of a budget. My personal opinion is play who is in front of you and move on. Were that UIW, then so be it.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW has about an $188M endowment, that’s only about $45M less than UTA even though UTA has 45,000 students to UIW’s 9,000. That’s pretty sad. Chicago St has a $10M endowment, and 2,500 students.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but UTA's endowment was over $200 million in 2021. UIW's enrollment seems to be a point of contention. I've seen roughly 4,500 to 9,500. Either way, low $$$ for a private school. But looking at the "big boys" endowment then arguing at our level is like arguing over who has the larger micro-wiener. Neither is gonna get you on a film shoot.

And Chicago State's endowment is not a surprise to anyone. They are trying to reverse that trend with football. No one knows if it will work, but I give them credit for trying.

You even singled out the section about endowment and still didn’t read it. I suggest you go back and actually read it, instead of rage replying.

Correct, I got it wrong. I misread it when I first read it and when I quoted it, still had the original framing.

Care to address the other stuff?

(09-24-2026 04:38 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 08:28 AM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2026 09:38 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  Let's break this up, though I feel the shelf life is nearing the end and I'm beating a dead horse.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW or any school’s record in 2013 and before, might as well have been 800 years ago. BYU is able to buy #1 recruits and Indiana won the national title in football last year. That wasn’t possible 15 years ago.

Then what does Chicago State's history have to do with anything? You brought up their losing ways prior to starting football. UIW is broke and have been sued by their own athletes. Chicago State is broke and has not. Both are broke. The current era means little if you don't have money.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  Chicago St probably decided to roll out their program in less than a year, so they wouldn’t have to pay coaches and board students for a year in which they couldn’t be sacrificial lambs to Tarleton St.

That's like, your opinion man. There's nothing concrete as far as sources go. If they don't have revenue like you said and make negative gameday money, it would be in their best interest to not field a team. You can't have it both ways.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  What does volleyball have to do with football? They played GCU, NMSU, and Utah Valley?

You cited their history of not winning as an athletic department. They were dominant in the NEC in volleyball that year. The NEC is just a hair below the Southland and yet UIW has not won anything in the SLC but football. I pointed out Chicago State played harder conference opponents, which contributed to their lack of success. UIW cannot say the same.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  That’s great, those schools along with yours, invited UIW to join them in the WAC. Really good chance that if UIW wouldn’t have reversed course, UTA and UIW would be in the same conference now.

Yes, though the vote was prior to UTA joining. I don't have a problem as a whole with UIW. UTA plays them often in many sports. They would have been an RPI drag however. There were many, within UTA and out, that were happy UIW reneged at the last minute. Though, that again illustrates their lack of a budget. My personal opinion is play who is in front of you and move on. Were that UIW, then so be it.

(09-23-2026 05:35 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  UIW has about an $188M endowment, that’s only about $45M less than UTA even though UTA has 45,000 students to UIW’s 9,000. That’s pretty sad. Chicago St has a $10M endowment, and 2,500 students.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but UTA's endowment was over $200 million in 2021. UIW's enrollment seems to be a point of contention. I've seen roughly 4,500 to 9,500. Either way, low $$$ for a private school. But looking at the "big boys" endowment then arguing at our level is like arguing over who has the larger micro-wiener. Neither is gonna get you on a film shoot.

And Chicago State's endowment is not a surprise to anyone. They are trying to reverse that trend with football. No one knows if it will work, but I give them credit for trying.

You even singled out the section about endowment and still didn’t read it. I suggest you go back and actually read it, instead of rage replying.

Correct, I got it wrong. I misread it when I first read it and when I quoted it, still had the original framing.

Care to address the other stuff?

No. I’m going to reply to Chicrapo St football losses only going forward.

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

(08-07-2026 06:15 PM)46566 Wrote:  To be fair most consider any wins a successful first season. Most have them penciled in for 4 wins this season. Assuming they can beat non FCS teams. I can see Roosevelt as a permanent D2 game on their schedule as a cheap game for Chicago State.

(09-24-2026 07:11 PM)LaLaLand Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

Ah, so UIW2 isn’t going to say anymore except about scores.

Then another one of his sock puppet accounts chimes in about the all the other garbage.

Anyone seeing how this works?

LaLaLand randomly creates an account a month ago, doesn’t post ever. Claims to support NJIT, but has only ever posted about Chicago State. Right on the heels of UIW comments about Chicago State

That must be what’s called a “real coincidence…”

(09-24-2026 07:44 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-07-2026 06:15 PM)46566 Wrote:  To be fair most consider any wins a successful first season. Most have them penciled in for 4 wins this season. Assuming they can beat non FCS teams. I can see Roosevelt as a permanent D2 game on their schedule as a cheap game for Chicago State.

(09-24-2026 07:11 PM)LaLaLand Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

Ah, so UIW2 isn’t going to say anymore except about scores.

Then another one of his sock puppet accounts chimes in about the all the other garbage.

Anyone seeing how this works?

LaLaLand randomly creates an account a month ago, doesn’t post ever. Claims to support NJIT, but has only ever posted about Chicago State. Right on the heels of UIW comments about Chicago State

That must be what’s called a “real coincidence…”

Lots of accusations in this thread, none are accurate. Just two guys upset about “negative” posts about Chicrapo St.

This thread has turned into something else, all because two guys don’t like me picking on Chicrapo St. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

(09-24-2026 08:33 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 07:44 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-07-2026 06:15 PM)46566 Wrote:  To be fair most consider any wins a successful first season. Most have them penciled in for 4 wins this season. Assuming they can beat non FCS teams. I can see Roosevelt as a permanent D2 game on their schedule as a cheap game for Chicago State.

(09-24-2026 07:11 PM)LaLaLand Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

Ah, so UIW2 isn’t going to say anymore except about scores.

Then another one of his sock puppet accounts chimes in about the all the other garbage.

Anyone seeing how this works?

LaLaLand randomly creates an account a month ago, doesn’t post ever. Claims to support NJIT, but has only ever posted about Chicago State. Right on the heels of UIW comments about Chicago State

That must be what’s called a “real coincidence…”

Lots of accusations in this thread, none are accurate. Just two guys upset about “negative” posts about Chicrapo St.

This thread has turned into something else, all because two guys don’t like me picking on Chicrapo St. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

I actually haven't deflected anything. I've stated the only reason Chicago State is in the NEC is because they mentioned they'd add football. I've also stated to wait 2-3 years to paint Chicago State football as a success or failure. The whole purpose was to draw people into the school. It's been bad since they left the MCC. Great West failed and WAC just needed a warm body.
Uiw and Chicago State are basically on the same rung in college sports. Unless you're a die-hard can nobody cares. I Doubt any casual Fan knows where UIW is or what conference Chicago State is in.

(09-24-2026 07:44 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-07-2026 06:15 PM)46566 Wrote:  To be fair most consider any wins a successful first season. Most have them penciled in for 4 wins this season. Assuming they can beat non FCS teams. I can see Roosevelt as a permanent D2 game on their schedule as a cheap game for Chicago State.

(09-24-2026 07:11 PM)LaLaLand Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 06:33 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  And yet the school stays open and continues to suck up tax dollars because doing so is a political landmine because of the population it serves.

So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

Ah, so UIW2 isn’t going to say anymore except about scores.

Then another one of his sock puppet accounts chimes in about the all the other garbage.

Anyone seeing how this works?

LaLaLand randomly creates an account a month ago, doesn’t post ever. Claims to support NJIT, but has only ever posted about Chicago State. Right on the heels of UIW comments about Chicago State

That must be what’s called a “real coincidence…”

It's weird to accuse me of a burner when I only made 2 posts (now 3) in a month in one thread. It's not like what I'm saying is unpopular or something only UIW believes.

Norfolk State 43
Chicago State 20

Texas State 63
UIW 10

(09-24-2026 09:55 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 08:33 PM)UIWElite2 Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 07:44 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-07-2026 06:15 PM)46566 Wrote:  To be fair most consider any wins a successful first season. Most have them penciled in for 4 wins this season. Assuming they can beat non FCS teams. I can see Roosevelt as a permanent D2 game on their schedule as a cheap game for Chicago State.

(09-24-2026 07:11 PM)LaLaLand Wrote:  

(09-24-2026 05:01 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  So we are allowed to insert politics then?

Sports are political by nature, especially college sports. It's a disservice to the people that a school with a 10% graduation rate is allowed to start a D1 football team, let alone operate.

Ah, so UIW2 isn’t going to say anymore except about scores.

Then another one of his sock puppet accounts chimes in about the all the other garbage.

Anyone seeing how this works?

LaLaLand randomly creates an account a month ago, doesn’t post ever. Claims to support NJIT, but has only ever posted about Chicago State. Right on the heels of UIW comments about Chicago State

That must be what’s called a “real coincidence…”

Lots of accusations in this thread, none are accurate. Just two guys upset about “negative” posts about Chicrapo St.

This thread has turned into something else, all because two guys don’t like me picking on Chicrapo St. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

I actually haven't deflected anything. I've stated the only reason Chicago State is in the NEC is because they mentioned they'd add football. I've also stated to wait 2-3 years to paint Chicago State football as a success or failure. The whole purpose was to draw people into the school. It's been bad since they left the MCC. Great West failed and WAC just needed a warm body.
Uiw and Chicago State are basically on the same rung in college sports. Unless you're a die-hard can nobody cares. I Doubt any casual Fan knows where UIW is or what conference Chicago State is in.

Me Me Me

Chicago St is in the NEC, why? both parties were desperate.

UIW: It used to be called IWC (Incarnate Word College). I used to live just north of it San Antonio (Alamo Heights). If you are a male you'll be outnumbered like 2 to 1 there.