(08-17-2026 08:25 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You’re not wrong exactly, he’s just so damn nice it’s hard to hate him, as opposed to, say, Tom.

I'd rather hang out with Bill than Tom anyway.

Tom is a vile human being who thinks he's above it all.

Bill is just very naive.

(08-17-2026 05:33 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 04:19 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 03:20 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 01:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Simple question:

Do you fellas on the right think I'm an idiot to get an annual flu shot?

Now let the hyenas of this board (the hard-assed right-wingers) eviscerate the gangly and helpless wildebeest (Bill Dazzle) in an African plains predator vs. prey bloodbath.

This has nothing to do with left or right wingers.

I've never gotten a flu shot, or any other vaccine, in my adult life. That has NOTHING to do with politics. It's a personal health choice. And yes I think you are.

Bill Idiocy thanks you for your response.

My response was said with much love of course.

Yes, indeed.

(08-17-2026 07:13 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I have to admit that B-Daz is growing on me, and I may have been wrong about him, for once. I can usually peg them from one post.

Thanks, TB4E.

Any man who enjoys the music of Pearl Jam ... has my respect (even though we don't agree on all topics — and that's fine).

(08-17-2026 08:30 PM)BirdHawkEagle Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 08:25 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  You’re not wrong exactly, he’s just so damn nice it’s hard to hate him, as opposed to, say, Tom.

I'd rather hang out with Bill than Tom anyway.

Tom is a vile human being who thinks he's above it all.

Bill is just very naive.

I would like to think that my efforts to see the good in most people (though open to realizing they can be bad) is not full naivety, BHE. Though I can understand how some might characterize me as naive.

(08-17-2026 01:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Simple question:

Do you fellas on the right think I'm an idiot to get an annual flu shot?

Now let the hyenas of this board (the hard-assed right-wingers) eviscerate the gangly and helpless wildebeest (Bill Dazzle) in an African plains predator vs. prey bloodbath.

With all due respect Bill... You choose to get that shot of your own free will, it is not forced upon you to keep you job, or go have dinner or walk outside etc.... I know you know the difference.



I had to get the jab TO KEEP MY JOB ... otherwise I would not have done it.

Luckily I was able to get away with the J&J 1-shot dose and never had to follow up again.

(08-18-2026 06:43 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 01:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Simple question:

Do you fellas on the right think I'm an idiot to get an annual flu shot?

Now let the hyenas of this board (the hard-assed right-wingers) eviscerate the gangly and helpless wildebeest (Bill Dazzle) in an African plains predator vs. prey bloodbath.

With all due respect Bill... You choose to get that shot of your own free will, it is not forced upon you to keep you job, or go have dinner or walk outside etc.... I know you know the difference.



I had to get the jab TO KEEP MY JOB ... otherwise I would not have done it.

Luckily I was able to get away with the J&J 1-shot dose and never had to follow up again.

Influenza, pneumonia, shingles, etc, are legitimate vaccines. They use the dead or weakened virus to boost immunity. Your risk with those is the same as with any medication you take, an allergic reaction.

The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments. It destroyed the immune systems of the animals it was introduced to. In an odd and not totally apt illustration mRNA is like the science fiction in the Bourne movies where the strength and endurance factors are viralled into the patient's DNA so that taking the pills isn't required. The idea is that by altering the DNA immunity can be created permanently without having to have vaccines and boosters. The problem, and the severe risk factor, is that you are tampering with the body's master blueprint. And instead of enhancing the immune system it actually cripples it making the patient more dependent upon vaccines if they are to survive, and if they don't take the vaccines making them more susceptible to any kind of viral attack upon the body because their immune system is damaged.

My wife, like a lot of women in science fields, is truly moderate about a lot of issues regarding a person's right to choose what is best for them. She recoiled immediately when the COVID vaccine mandate was issued for the mRNA treatments.

I had to take the shot. Mine was the Phizer shot. I had to take it because I had a daughter in Vermont and another in Alaska and if either had gotten ill, or needed my assistance I had to be cleared to travel. The first shot gave me something I had never had, arrhythmias. My Doctor who was on the military's team doing research on the side effects which were arising out of the mRNA vaccines (really a therapy and not a vaccine) gave me a waiver on having to take another, but had me on surveillance for a year for any subsequent issues and did so with my permission to collect the data. I almost lost him. He had the shots as well and while attending his Church hit the floor in sudden cardiac arrest from an arrythmia. Had a cardiologist not also been in attendance and kept his heart beating manually until the EMTs got there with the paddles he would have been dead in his 30's and in peak physical condition. As I related when this was happening my best friend's daughter lost her best friend at 23 and 3 days after she got her first shot for COVID. Cause of death, cardiac arrest.

What pissed me off so completely then and now is how the damned politics clouded everyone's reason about this issue. It was classic Chicken Little syndrome. Those who had been finding fault with every knit-picking thing the Dems had been doing sounded like the usual alarmists. What the jackasses on both sides of the issue weren't paying attention to were the people in the medical community who were being stripped of licenses or threatened in other ways by those in Big Pharma who didn't want the narrative of the risks out there. Fauci and others were relying on the fear factor to push the necessity and the 3 companies making the so-called vaccines made BILLIONS. If a planet of 8 Billion people loses a 100 million it didn't mean a damn thing to them except the cost of doing business in a crisis those SOBs manufactured.

The board didn't want to hear my take then because it was about the damned vaccines and not about the politics of it. Anytime somebody uses a crisis for their own interests everyone on the left and right should be watching every damn move they make to see when they take you past common sense. We leaped off the damn cliff of common sense with COVID and innocent, mostly young healthy people, died because of it. The disease which was created by combining the viral strains found in Horseshoe bats and Pangolins (two creatures who never come into proximity of one another) was a man-made crisis for profit.

That was the truth then and the truth now. It was politicized because it also gave cover for all kinds of electioneering fraud due to masking, mail in ballots and other contingencies exploited in the name of public safety.

No politics in my next statement either:

I want Fauci and the CEOs of any of the 3 profiting pharmaceutical companies who financed his Wuhan research for their future profits tried for crimes against humanity and in Fauci's case executed and in the case of any CEO involvement at the very least imprisoned for life. These are Mengele level crimes but on a global scale instead of a concentration camp level! And remember the head of the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control all trumpeted the need for mandatory vaccinations as well. Look into their personal funds to see if they too profited and if they did try them as well!

The Crime against the United States Government here is that those operating on its behalf by lending their credibility to the crime, irreparably damaged the public trust in the very government designed to hold us together. They should be tried as well!

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The disease which was created by combining the viral strains found in Horseshoe bats and Pangolins (two creatures who never come into proximity of one another) was a man-made crisis for profit.

Source?

(08-18-2026 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

Tom the point that you sort-of walked around here is the mandatory part. Many people who got the shot were given no choice for a number of reasons.....


As you accurately point out, "there is no evidence of a pattern of deaths..." however, the same can be said about lives saved. Those "saves" are anecdotal at best. There is a strong argument (that cannot be proved or disproved) that those who survived would have survived with or without the shot.

At the very least it can be proven that stating you cannot contract or spread the Vid once you get the vax was a complete Lie - that alone compromises any and every other claim about the shot.

(08-18-2026 08:34 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

Tom the point that you sort-of walked around here is the mandatory part. Many people who got the shot were given no choice for a number of reasons.....


As you accurately point out, "there is no evidence of a pattern of deaths..." however, the same can be said about lives saved. Those "saves" are anecdotal at best. There is a strong argument (that cannot be proved or disproved) that those who survived would have survived with or without the shot.

At the very least it can be proven that stating you cannot contract or spread the Vid once you get the vax was a complete Lie - that alone compromises any and every other claim about the shot.

I lived through it. I was never once told that getting the vaccine was ANY guarantee against not getting it or spreading it.

And there was no government mandate for the public to get the shot. While yes, the government tried to mandate it for certain government workers and tried to extend that to others receiving government payments, the courts eventually stopped that.

Private companies can pretty much dictate what they want for their employees here.

(08-18-2026 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:34 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

Tom the point that you sort-of walked around here is the mandatory part. Many people who got the shot were given no choice for a number of reasons.....


As you accurately point out, "there is no evidence of a pattern of deaths..." however, the same can be said about lives saved. Those "saves" are anecdotal at best. There is a strong argument (that cannot be proved or disproved) that those who survived would have survived with or without the shot.

At the very least it can be proven that stating you cannot contract or spread the Vid once you get the vax was a complete Lie - that alone compromises any and every other claim about the shot.

I lived through it. I was never once told that getting the vaccine was ANY guarantee against not getting it or spreading it.

And there was no government mandate for the public to get the shot. While yes, the government tried to mandate it for certain government workers and tried to extend that to others receiving government payments, the courts eventually stopped that.

Private companies can pretty much dictate what they want for their employees here.

C'mon Tom..... stop it. The pressure put on everyone (public and private) to get the shot "or else [fill in the blank consequence]" was real - and you know it.

My Body, My Choice...... My a$$.



THESE ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE CDC:

On Transmission Data (March 2021): “Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data.” (This statement was later adjusted as variants evolved and breakthrough infections occurred).

On Lifting Indoor Mask Mandates for Vaccinated Individuals (May 2021): “Anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, large or small, without wearing a mask or physical distancing. If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic.”

(08-18-2026 06:43 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-17-2026 01:45 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Simple question:

Do you fellas on the right think I'm an idiot to get an annual flu shot?

Now let the hyenas of this board (the hard-assed right-wingers) eviscerate the gangly and helpless wildebeest (Bill Dazzle) in an African plains predator vs. prey bloodbath.

With all due respect Bill... You choose to get that shot of your own free will, it is not forced upon you to keep you job, or go have dinner or walk outside etc.... I know you know the difference.



I had to get the jab TO KEEP MY JOB ... otherwise I would not have done it.

Luckily I was able to get away with the J&J 1-shot dose and never had to follow up again.

Fair points, ENabe. And, yes, there is a difference.

(08-18-2026 08:53 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:34 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

Tom the point that you sort-of walked around here is the mandatory part. Many people who got the shot were given no choice for a number of reasons.....


As you accurately point out, "there is no evidence of a pattern of deaths..." however, the same can be said about lives saved. Those "saves" are anecdotal at best. There is a strong argument (that cannot be proved or disproved) that those who survived would have survived with or without the shot.

At the very least it can be proven that stating you cannot contract or spread the Vid once you get the vax was a complete Lie - that alone compromises any and every other claim about the shot.

I lived through it. I was never once told that getting the vaccine was ANY guarantee against not getting it or spreading it.

And there was no government mandate for the public to get the shot. While yes, the government tried to mandate it for certain government workers and tried to extend that to others receiving government payments, the courts eventually stopped that.

Private companies can pretty much dictate what they want for their employees here.

C'mon Tom..... stop it. The pressure put on everyone (public and private) to get the shot "or else [fill in the blank consequence]" was real - and you know it.

My Body, My Choice...... My a$$.



THESE ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE CDC:

On Transmission Data (March 2021): “Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data.” (This statement was later adjusted as variants evolved and breakthrough infections occurred).

On Lifting Indoor Mask Mandates for Vaccinated Individuals (May 2021): “Anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, large or small, without wearing a mask or physical distancing. If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic.”

Yeah...because it was the correct thing to do. The evidence is clear. Vaccinated folks had better outcomes. This is not in dispute.

But you're right, we didn't immediately know what all we needed to do to stop a once in a generation global health crisis, and made mistakes. Imagine that.

Now, if only we could work together to mitigate these mistakes for the next one instead of butthurt politicians holding dog and pony shows to play gotcha.

(08-17-2026 04:17 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Curious, has anybody found that coke bottle used for kids vaccines yet? Or are you still just blindly agreeing with the dumbest president ever?

No, we aren't Dems so not obliged to follow any politician hook line and sinker.

(08-18-2026 08:53 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:34 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 08:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 07:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The COVID 19 vaccine was an mRNA vaccine. My wife was in a lab which experimented with those when the concept was novel. 100% of the test subjects (non-human) died in the experiments.

- What year was this?
- What was the experiment trying to accomplish...I mean was it trying to develop a vaccine for a known problem, virus, etc.? A assertive statement such as “100% of the animals died” is not meaningful without identifying which group died, why they died, whether death was spontaneous or scheduled euthanasia, what formulation was used, and whether there was an untreated control group. Additionally, death may not always equal causation from the mRNA. Also, A highly experimental dose or formulation might prove toxic, but that might concern that particular candidate, dose, or delivery system, not necessarily “mRNA” as a technology generally.
- Do you have any sources to support the outcomes?

Thanks.

mRNA was considered novel in the late 1980's and early 1990's per Copilot. And using it to develop vaccines was researched all through the 1990's to the early 2010's. The first human clinical trials began for rabies in 2013.

Bottom line, there's many factors at play here that we simply don't know, and we're several years out from billions of shots being administered worldwide with still no evidence of a pattern of deaths from the Covid shots.

Tom the point that you sort-of walked around here is the mandatory part. Many people who got the shot were given no choice for a number of reasons.....


As you accurately point out, "there is no evidence of a pattern of deaths..." however, the same can be said about lives saved. Those "saves" are anecdotal at best. There is a strong argument (that cannot be proved or disproved) that those who survived would have survived with or without the shot.

At the very least it can be proven that stating you cannot contract or spread the Vid once you get the vax was a complete Lie - that alone compromises any and every other claim about the shot.

I lived through it. I was never once told that getting the vaccine was ANY guarantee against not getting it or spreading it.

And there was no government mandate for the public to get the shot. While yes, the government tried to mandate it for certain government workers and tried to extend that to others receiving government payments, the courts eventually stopped that.

Private companies can pretty much dictate what they want for their employees here.

C'mon Tom..... stop it. The pressure put on everyone (public and private) to get the shot "or else [fill in the blank consequence]" was real - and you know it.

My Body, My Choice...... My a$$.



THESE ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE CDC:

On Transmission Data (March 2021): “Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data.” (This statement was later adjusted as variants evolved and breakthrough infections occurred).

On Lifting Indoor Mask Mandates for Vaccinated Individuals (May 2021): “Anyone who is fully vaccinated can participate in indoor and outdoor activities, large or small, without wearing a mask or physical distancing. If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic.”

You can't tell him anything that doesn't fit his narrative.

(08-18-2026 09:33 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Yeah...because it was the correct thing to do. The evidence is clear. Vaccinated folks had better outcomes. This is not in dispute.

But you're right, we didn't immediately know what all we needed to do to stop a once in a generation global health crisis, and made mistakes. Imagine that.

Now, if only we could work together to mitigate these mistakes for the next one instead of butthurt politicians holding dog and pony shows to play gotcha.

Nobody can argue that mistakes were made.... not one single person.


That said, there was some degree of negligence at best; straight out greed and disregard for life at worst.... accountability has been all but ignored and avoided to this point.

The entire planet deserves the truth on this, and there may well be some specific individuals who deserve life behind bars for this. People know things and they are not talking....

(08-18-2026 10:13 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(08-18-2026 09:33 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Yeah...because it was the correct thing to do. The evidence is clear. Vaccinated folks had better outcomes. This is not in dispute.

But you're right, we didn't immediately know what all we needed to do to stop a once in a generation global health crisis, and made mistakes. Imagine that.

Now, if only we could work together to mitigate these mistakes for the next one instead of butthurt politicians holding dog and pony shows to play gotcha.

Nobody can argue that mistakes were made.... not one single person.


That said, there was some degree of negligence at best; straight out greed and disregard for life at worst.... accountability has been all but ignored and avoided to this point.

The entire planet deserves the truth on this, and there may well be some specific individuals who deserve life behind bars for this. People know things and they are not talking....

The whole truth about this situation will never come out.

Probably not even 100 years from now.

(08-18-2026 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I lived through it. I was never once told that getting the vaccine was ANY guarantee against not getting it or spreading it.

And there was no government mandate for the public to get the shot. While yes, the government tried to mandate it for certain government workers and tried to extend that to others receiving government payments, the courts eventually stopped that.

Private companies can pretty much dictate what they want for their employees here.

From an 1000 ft view, why does one get vaccinated? According to the CDC, individuals get vaccinated for Hepatitis B to "PREVENT infection", vaccinations for HPV "KEEPS YOU FROM BEING INFECTED". Vaccines "protect yourself and AVOID SPREADING preventable diseases"
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines-adults/reasons/index.html

Were you told explicitly??? Probably not. Was it strongly implied? Absolutely.

During a CNN town hall on July 21, 2021, Joe Biden stated: "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations." He also added during the same event, "If you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized, you're not going to be in the ICU unit, and you're not going to die."