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The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #1
The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Not to mention meeting all of Putin’s demands other than giving him every single square kilometer of Ukraine, it once again establishes a corruption utopia in what’s left of Ukraine. Hundreds of billions of dollars will begin to flow to be gobbled up by US Congress person’s offspring. Unbelievable for Trump to be doing.

The two points that tell the true tale is:

1. NATO aircraft will be stationed in Poland. Nice little add on there. Quite nice for Putin when he decides to invade the Baltics

2. The deal is totally off if Ukraine fires a missile into Russia. I’m sure that missile will come from an Ukrainian army reduced by this plan by 60%. Yeah.

Ukraine is inflicting real damage on the Russian economy and in all likelihood will knock Moscow and St Petersburg’s electric grid out in the middle of the Russian winter bringing the pain of war directly to the people of Russia. This is why Russia is all of the sudden asking Trump to end the war. And Trump is falling for it.

I have to say I’m flabbergasted. Trump is absolutely bowing to Putin. I have no idea why, but there is no doubt about that. If they can pressure Ukraine to accept this deal (which I’m sure they will not) this war will be WWIII within a decade.
11-20-2025 11:09 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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Post: #2
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
28 point plan is a joke.

Someone should ask Trump do you look the dumb fat stupid kid in Animal House to Putin?

Because he is playing Trump for a FOOL

Putin should’ve already seen Tomahawks raining down on his parade.

Completely decimate his oil capabilities and capacity and see how long Russians want to starve for a region of Ukraine.
11-20-2025 11:18 PM
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BlueDragon Online
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RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
This is a SURRENDER DRAFT
11-20-2025 11:24 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Only read this much^^^

There has to be a LOT more to this than simply capitulation.

I’ll give it the 48-72 hour rule, then we’ll see what the conditions are.
11-20-2025 11:45 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #5
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Inevitable.

03-no

Reality caught up to the propaganda

Hundreds and hundreds of billions of our money to thr globohomos

No more money, no more fuel to the fire.

Only fools didnt see this coming.

I guess Epstien crap didnt work so Ukraine is a thing again.

Pitiful sheep

03-no
11-21-2025 01:20 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #6
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
lol—I think Shere might be Witcoff. They certainly think alike. We should probably wait to see what the ENTIRE plan is before we accept the current leaks as “fact”. However, if the deal really is just a reheated version of the unconditional surrender Putin has been peddling since Feb of 2022—then it’s time to bench Witcoff as he’s totally discredited himself as a viable negotiator. Rubio is the Secretary of State—Rubio is the professional in this situation. Let Witcoff go back to real estate and let’s see what Rubio can put together for Trump and Putin to mold into a deal Trump can sell to Ukraine.

That said—- One thing Ukraine should understand—any peace deal is going to end in a land for security peace exchange. Ukraine is going to lose territory. The key to the deal will be giving them the kind of security guarantees that will insure they never lose territory to Russia ever again.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 02:59 AM by Attackcoog.)
11-21-2025 02:57 AM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #7
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
It would have been helpful if someone had actually posted the full 28 point plan, so we could decide for ourselves. So here goes:

Quote:Trump's full 28-point Ukraine-Russia peace plan
By Barak Ravid and Dave Lawler

President Trump's 28-point plan for peace in Ukraine would force Kyiv to give up additional territory in the east, cap the size of its military, and agree it will never join NATO, according to a draft obtained by Axios and verified by a Ukrainian official, a U.S. official and a source familiar with the proposal.

Why it matters: The U.S. side is pushing Ukraine to make a deal on an "aggressive timeline." And despite the plan including proposals Ukraine has repeatedly rejected up to now, President Volodymyr Zelensky is not ruling it out.

* A senior White House official acknowledged the plan is "not easy" for Ukraine but said the U.S. believes the war must end and that if it doesn't, Ukraine is likely to lose even more territory.

Catch up quick: The plan was drafted by Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff with input from Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner.

* Witkoff also consulted with Russian envoy Kirill Dmitriev on the plan. Dmitriev told Axios he is optimistic about it because unlike past efforts, "we feel the Russian position is really being heard." President Vladimir Putin has not publicly endorsed the plan.

* After meeting Dmitriev, Witkoff and Kushner also discussed the plan with Zelensky's national security adviser, Rustem Umerov.

* U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll presented the plan to Zelensky on Thursday in writing. Afterward, Zelensky said he was prepared to hold talks about it with Trump and his team.

Between the lines: Zelensky described the plan as the U.S. "vision" but not a final offer. He said Ukraine had been clear about its red lines and would give its input to make the plan "truly meaningful."

* A U.S. official also told Axios the administration sees the plan as a "live document" that can be changed based on discussions with the parties. The official claimed Ukraine was positive about many of the points during the negotiations and managed to incorporate some of its positions.

* Trump has also given his personal endorsement to the plan, the full details of which had not previously been published.

* "We are making a serious effort to find a solution that will end the war in Ukraine, the same way we ended the war in Gaza. We believe this plan is not easy but it is good for Ukraine," the senior White House official said.

Zoom in: In addition to the territorial concessions asked of Ukraine, the document says there would be a "decisive coordinated military response" in the event of further Russian incursions onto Ukrainian territory. It does not say what role the U.S. would play in such a response.

* The plan also includes economic components that would see some frozen Russian assets go toward rebuilding Ukraine, sanctions on Russia lifted, the U.S. and Russia agreeing to partner long-term in areas like AI and mining, and Russia returning to the G8.

* All parties would get amnesty for their actions during the war, presumably meaning Russian officials and soldiers could not be prosecuted for war crimes.

* The plan also calls for Ukraine to hold elections within 100 days of a deal. Zelensky told Axios in September that he wanted to hold elections once there was a ceasefire.

Worth noting: The 28 points below reflect the current U.S. plan as of Thursday, barring minor changes to the language as it has been amended. It includes annotations from Axios in italics for the purposes of clarity.

The full plan

1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.

2. A comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.

3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.

4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.

* A U.S. official told Axios this would be an explicit security guarantee for Ukraine from the U.S., the first time that has officially been on the table during these talks, though the proposal does not offer further details on what it entails.

6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.

* Note: Ukraine's army currently has 800,000-850,000 personnel, and had around 250,000 before the war, according to a Ukrainian official.

7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

* Note: NATO countries including France and the U.K. have been working on separate proposals that would include small numbers of European troops on Ukrainian soil after the war. This plan appears to disregard that possibility.

9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

10. The U.S. guarantee:

* The U.S. will receive compensation for the guarantee;

* If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee;

* If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;

* If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.

11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.

12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:

* The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.

* The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernize, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.

* Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernization of cities and residential areas.

* Infrastructure development.

* Extraction of minerals and natural resources.

* The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.

13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:

* The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.

* The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.

* Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.

14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:

* $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine;

* The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.

15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.

* Note: New START, the last major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty, is due to expire in February.

18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:

* Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.

* Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. (Note: Similar ideas were incorporated into Trump's 2020 Israel-Palestine peace plan).

* All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.

21. Territories:

* Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognized as de facto Russian, including by the United States.

* Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.

* Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.

* Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone.

22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.

23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.

24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:

* All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis.

* All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.

* A family reunification program will be implemented.

* Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.

25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.

26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.

27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.

* Note: This is the same general structure Trump proposed to govern the Gaza peace agreement.

28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.

https://www.axios.com/2025/11/20/trump-u...nts-russia
11-21-2025 03:26 AM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #8
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Okay, I haven't read every word yet, but unless Ukraine somehow thinks they can recover all their territory, I don't see the issue. Trump's strategy is to stop the killing.

Looks like Russia gets the occupied territory plus the disputed part, and Ukraine gets a full security guarantee from the US, which it has not had before.

If Russia invades Ukraine again, all agreements are off, and the US will back Ukraine.

How is this a bad deal for Ukraine? They get to keep most of their country, and have security guarantees from the US. And most of all, the war is stopped.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 03:33 AM by TripleA.)
11-21-2025 03:33 AM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #9
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
The Ukrainiatards here don’t want to stop the killing.
11-21-2025 05:05 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #10
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 03:33 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Okay, I haven't read every word yet, but unless Ukraine somehow thinks they can recover all their territory, I don't see the issue. Trump's strategy is to stop the killing.

Looks like Russia gets the occupied territory plus the disputed part, and Ukraine gets a full security guarantee from the US, which it has not had before.

If Russia invades Ukraine again, all agreements are off, and the US will back Ukraine.

How is this a bad deal for Ukraine? They get to keep most of their country, and have security guarantees from the US. And most of all, the war is stopped.

In addition to rebuilding programs for new infrastructure, new access to EU markets, and billions in investments to rebuild homes and businesses, repatriate, and reunite families. That's just off the top of my head; there were a lot of other concessions that benefitted Ukraine.

If the war is to end, this agreement is the most inclusive and comprehensive yet.
11-21-2025 07:34 AM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
And, why should I care, again?
11-21-2025 07:37 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 02:57 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  lol—I think Shere might be Witcoff. They certainly think alike. We should probably wait to see what the ENTIRE plan is before we accept the current leaks as “fact”. However, if the deal really is just a reheated version of the unconditional surrender Putin has been peddling since Feb of 2022—then it’s time to bench Witcoff as he’s totally discredited himself as a viable negotiator. Rubio is the Secretary of State—Rubio is the professional in this situation. Let Witcoff go back to real estate and let’s see what Rubio can put together for Trump and Putin to mold into a deal Trump can sell to Ukraine.

That said—- One thing Ukraine should understand—any peace deal is going to end in a land for security peace exchange. Ukraine is going to lose territory. The key to the deal will be giving them the kind of [b]security guarantees[/b] that will insure they never lose territory to Russia ever again.
Absolutely frickin no.

Cute term for we will protect them while the globohomos take their natural resources

Real world...frick em. Not our problem.

Same since day 1.

Now if we go in and conquer Ukraine, make them a territory, yeah, then they get a "security guarantee"

Just insane. In what lunatic world do we agree to protect ukraine in perpetuity?
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 08:21 AM by shere khan.)
11-21-2025 08:18 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
It's the best deal Ukraine is going to get. Take it or leave it.
11-21-2025 08:21 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 08:21 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It's the best deal Ukraine is going to get. Take it or leave it.

That corrupt retard Z needs to be dethroned
11-21-2025 08:22 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Well when you put an administration in a position that both sides will kill them as soon as peace breaks out it takes a bit of the incentive away to find solutions.

He's not going to survive this unless he beats feet to another country before a ceasefire.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2025 08:30 AM by rath v2.0.)
11-21-2025 08:29 AM
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BlueDragon Online
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Post: #16
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
Somewhere beyond the grave Neville Chamberlain is laughing his ass off.

Just like Jimmuh Carter thanked Joe Biden for proving he’s not the worst.
11-21-2025 09:05 AM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 03:33 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Okay, I haven't read every word yet, but unless Ukraine somehow thinks they can recover all their territory, I don't see the issue. Trump's strategy is to stop the killing.

Looks like Russia gets the occupied territory plus the disputed part, and Ukraine gets a full security guarantee from the US, which it has not had before.

If Russia invades Ukraine again, all agreements are off, and the US will back Ukraine.

How is this a bad deal for Ukraine? They get to keep most of their country, and have security guarantees from the US. And most of all, the war is stopped.

It is bad for Ukraine because it is everything Russia wants at a point where this war could turn. This is a last chance for Putin to get ‘almost’ everything he needs to declare victory, recover with no sanctions on him and no restrictions on HIS MILITARY so the build up can begin for the next bite of the apple. All of this just before Ukraine plunges Moscow and St Petersburg into darkness in the midst of the Russian winter.

Also please realize this deal is grifters dream for all of the same characters that have stolen money in Ukraine in the past. And why should any country other than Russia rebuild those areas they obliterated to conquer. How does that sit with the local Ukraine haters?

And lastly, why does Putin get to demand elections on his time scale? Maybe that 100 day window should apply to Russia also. Or maybe both should step down from power. Zelinsky has already said he will not seek reelection.
11-21-2025 09:48 AM
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HawkeyeCoug Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 08:18 AM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-21-2025 02:57 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  lol—I think Shere might be Witcoff. They certainly think alike. We should probably wait to see what the ENTIRE plan is before we accept the current leaks as “fact”. However, if the deal really is just a reheated version of the unconditional surrender Putin has been peddling since Feb of 2022—then it’s time to bench Witcoff as he’s totally discredited himself as a viable negotiator. Rubio is the Secretary of State—Rubio is the professional in this situation. Let Witcoff go back to real estate and let’s see what Rubio can put together for Trump and Putin to mold into a deal Trump can sell to Ukraine.

That said—- One thing Ukraine should understand—any peace deal is going to end in a land for security peace exchange. Ukraine is going to lose territory. The key to the deal will be giving them the kind of [b]security guarantees[/b] that will insure they never lose territory to Russia ever again.

Absolutely frickin no.

Cute term for we will protect them while the globohomos take their natural resources

Real world...frick em. Not our problem.

Same since day 1.

Now if we go in and conquer Ukraine, make them a territory, yeah, then they get a "security guarantee"

Just insane. In what lunatic world do we agree to protect ukraine in perpetuity?


It is a horrible deal for us if we get roped into the security guarantee part. No way should we agree to that. Nothing "America First" about that.

It should be Western Europe providing the security guarantees. Western European troops should be in Ukraine right now. North Korean have been fighting with the Russians for over a year. Western European nations should have been doing the same.

All Russia loses is $100B in foreign assets. They need to pay a much higher price. It is absolutely insane that they get so much. North Korea doesn't pay either. Konigsburg and North Korean territories should be on the table.

Economic sanctions simply do not work. They do not force the hands of despotic nations. They do not result in revolutions. It won't be a threat that keeps Russia in line.

Once again, the blame for this entire mess belongs to Western Europe. Their lack of military preparation, their lack of sending in troops, their lack of a credible threat is what enabled and extended all this. Mass Migration, closet commies, and evil politicians have left our European allies weak and ineffective. We probably need to leave NATO for them to take their own defence and the defence of their nearby allies seriously.
11-21-2025 09:53 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
It's good for Ukraine because it doesn't become part of Russia again.

That is the main Ukrainian success of this war of Russian aggression. They stopped them from being totally overrun. That was always the only goal against a much larger fighting force with 4 times the bodies to throw into the grinder. Refuse this and it will take a couple years but becoming part of Russia is going to be the outcome.
11-21-2025 09:54 AM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The Trump administration conspires with Putin to defeat Ukraine.
(11-21-2025 08:18 AM)shere khan Wrote:  
(11-21-2025 02:57 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  lol—I think Shere might be Witcoff. They certainly think alike. We should probably wait to see what the ENTIRE plan is before we accept the current leaks as “fact”. However, if the deal really is just a reheated version of the unconditional surrender Putin has been peddling since Feb of 2022—then it’s time to bench Witcoff as he’s totally discredited himself as a viable negotiator. Rubio is the Secretary of State—Rubio is the professional in this situation. Let Witcoff go back to real estate and let’s see what Rubio can put together for Trump and Putin to mold into a deal Trump can sell to Ukraine.

That said—- One thing Ukraine should understand—any peace deal is going to end in a land for security peace exchange. Ukraine is going to lose territory. The key to the deal will be giving them the kind of [b]security guarantees[/b] that will insure they never lose territory to Russia ever again.
Absolutely frickin no.

Cute term for we will protect them while the globohomos take their natural resources

Real world...frick em. Not our problem.

Same since day 1.

Now if we go in and conquer Ukraine, make them a territory, yeah, then they get a "security guarantee"

Just insane. In what lunatic world do we agree to protect ukraine in perpetuity?

Did you miss the part where WE are the globohomos taking half their natural resources?

How do you feel about us rebuilding the parts of Russia that they destroyed with their invasion?

You’re right about protecting Ukraine. They should be allowed to protect themselves, right?
11-21-2025 09:55 AM
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