(08-20-2025 12:26 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 10:15 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 07:49 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 05:31 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Fox is reporting this morning that a high ranking Russian official essentially walked back everything we thought we got from Putin last week. No agreement on a tri-lateral meeting, and no boots on the ground from EU countries allowed by Russia.

Speculation is that Putin has no intention of bringing 100K troops back from the front lines who might have a few willing to assassinate him.

This war is not going to end anytime soon.

This. I’m sorry but Trump just got played by Putin again. Putin managed to get Trump to delay sanctions again. Maybe there is some plan we don’t know about but this looks like case as it stands now.

There was a map of Russian occupation of Ukraine in the room and Zelinsky reminded the president that Russia had gained exactly 1% of Ukraine in the last 1000 days. And this gain was at the cost of several hundred thousand casualties and immense loss of equipment. And Ukraine has fortified five more lines of defense if they fall back from the present line. It will cost Russia another couple of million men to gain another 5%.
Russia is also reeling from their logistics and oil and gas refineries being clobbered by Ukrainian drones, which are only gaining in effectiveness and power.

And as I’ve said before the economic catastrophe that is brewing in Russia will be their end soon. Another example of this is troop recruitment. Russia is 45,000 recruits short of the same number this time last year. They are giving each recruit a $30,000 signing bonus and $150,000 death benefit. And they are being killed at the tune of 1000 a day. And this is beginning to take its toll The Russian press has even reported some recruitment offices are being closed….because they can’t afford to keep them open.

Just a little more economic pressure and constant drone attacks inside Russia could break the will of those supporting Putin and end this war. It will take help from the west and for the Ukrainians to not give in on the constant targeting of civilians by Russia.

Putin won't be serious until he start to feel some pain. When he and his oligarch buddies start feeling the financial pinch. When it gets tough to pay for materials for weapons. When he has to start pulling people off the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg to go to the meat grinder and the public turns against him. He can get away with it in Chechnya and Siberia and the outlying regions.

We need to do serious sanctions and allow Ukraine to take out as many oil refineries as they can. Create pain in Russia. Make the war unprofitable and dangerous for Putin and his inner circle. He will not do something that jeopordizes his rule.

Thats what I think. That said----Im a little skeptical of the report that Putin has reversed himself on the peace concessions he made to Trump. If he did---then its time for some stick.

Massive secondary sanctions on China, India, and Brazil for starters. On the war front---sell Ukraine whatever they want to buy. Behind the scenes I'd also help Z improve his nations production output of its domestically manufactured Neptune and Flamingo long range missiles. Both have been tested and are in serial production, but the output is fairly limited due to various bottlenecks. Fix those bottlenecks. If the Ukrainians could get the output of those missiles up to say 50-100 a month----they could finally reach deep enough with warheads large enough---to likely cripple Russia's fuel production---probably in as little as a few months. That kind of damage to Russia's money maker would likely change Putin's calculus on the value of a reasonable negotiated settlement that could end the Ukrainian War.

Not just a report. It's on video. The dude who said it is Sergey Lavrov, Putin's long-time Foreign Affairs Minister. No way in hell he says that without Putin's approval. And I saw Lavrov say it (translated).

Yes--Ive seen the video. Im still sticking to what Putin said to Trump in Alaska until Putin himself says otherwise. Either Putin signs a deal like he offered Trump---or he doesnt.

Lavrov has never moved from the 2022 "peace deal" they offered Ukraine when it looked like Kyiv was about to fall. Most people dont know what that 2022 deal entailed.....it was pretty close to an unconditional surrender. Im guessing he's to stick to that line in public until Putin is happy with the compromise. I would note Zelinsky has never said publicly they would give up land (in facts. if anything he's said the exact opposite). In the press conference Monday---he really didnt answer the question.

For those that dont know---That 2022 deal required giving up the all the annexed territories (including Crimea, the Donbas, etc) , a near complete disarming of the Ukrainian Army (they could have 400 tanks, 40K men, no planes, and no weapons that could fire more than 20 miles), no NATO, a new Russian leaning government (puppet state), and they would get "security gurantees". The "security guarantees" were of course worthless. The "gurantees" were from the security council members (including the US, UK, France, China, and---drumroll please---Russia). Under the "security gurantee" ALL members of the security council would have to agree to come to Ukraine's aid before ANY of those nations could aid Ukraine. Essentially, if Russia invaded again---China, or Russia itself---could veto any aid to Ukraine. The security "guarantees" were actually as bad or worse than the Budapest Memorandum.

Putin doesn't want peace; he is showing it by his actions. He wants all of Donbas and won't stop until he secures it. Then maybe, he will take peace. Putin still believes Ukraine is Russia...

(08-20-2025 02:10 PM)hburg Wrote:  Putin doesn't want peace; he is showing it by his actions. He wants all of Donbas and won't stop until he secures it. Then maybe, he will take peace. Putin still believes Ukraine is Russia...

Trump seems to be the only politician in the entire world who wants peace... Too much profit in the most corrupt country on the planet. They need Ukraine to do all the things they have banned from doing in their own countries.

Trump needs to wash his hands with it, cut off everything, and let the European warmongers have their fun.

Zelenskyy doesn't want peace either.

(08-20-2025 03:15 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Zelenskyy doesn't want peace either.

I dont think thats true of Z---and its probably not true of either. I would agree Z has no interest in a peace that's basically a surrender---but I do think he's genuinely interested in a reasonable compromise peace deal. I think Putin is probably ready for peace at this point too. The trick is finding a compromise peace deal that both can live with---which also allows each leader to save face. Both have to be able to walk away saying "we won!".

"Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

And how do you know that?

Or are you just pulling it out of you know where?

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

He was a highly successful actor and producer who was rich before the war. The Pandora papers proved he held off-shore assets---but the papers also prove he had those assets before his presidency. He claims the off shore company was a way production companies avoided "censorship" during the Yanukovych presidency. lol--personally Im pretty sure he was actually trying to avoid taxes---but who knows. The investigation of these Pandora Papers assets found no links to money laundering. His net worth is public---about 30 million (which has not changed since his presidency began). He is NOT a billionaire as some claim. I would note his partner in the production company they co-own is a billionaire (and was before Z was president)---but Z is not---which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

We can go back and forth on sources---but I always look at common sense reasoning. With the capital surrounded and the US government telling him Kyiv would fall within days (perhaps even hours)---he refused the US offer to establish a government in exile in America. He could have easily raided the treasury, flew to America, and lived out the rest of his days in luxury as the leader of the Ukrainian government in exile. Instead, he risked the lives of himself---and his family---and stayed in Ukraine hoping to rally and inspire his army in their defense of Ukraine. To me---if it was all about the bucks he would have exited stage left in the early days of 2022 with the Ukrainian treasury account in tow. Im not saying he hasnt made mistakes---but I really do think he's doing what he thinks is best for his nation.

(08-20-2025 04:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

He was a highly successful actor and producer who was rich before the war. The Pandora papers proved he held off-shore assets---but the papers also prove he had those assets before his presidency. He claims the off shore company was a way production companies avoided "censorship" during the Yanukovych presidency. lol--personally Im pretty sure he was actually trying to avoid taxes---but who knows. The investigation of these Pandora Papers assets found no links to money laundering. His net worth is public---about 30 million (which has not changed since his presidency began). He is NOT a billionaire as some claim. I would note his partner in the production company they co-own is a billionaire---but Z is not---which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

We can go back and forth on sources---but I always look a common sense reasoning. With the capital surrounded and the US government telling him Kyiv would fall within days (perhaps even hours)---he refused the US offer to establish a government in exile in America. He could have easily raided the treasury, flew to America, and lived out the rest of his days in luxury as the leader of the Ukrainian government in exile. Instead, he risked the lives of himself---and his family---and stayed in Ukraine hoping to rally and inspire his army to in their defense of Ukraine. To me---if it was all about the bucks he would have exited stage left in 2022 with Ukrainian treasury account in tow.

Oh FFS



Frick that little bastard He is a globohomo puppet dictator installed by filth.

Muh literally churchill shite yet again

https://nypost.com/2025/08/18/world-news...e-meeting/

This article has a map of what Putin supposedly offered. Russia gets a bunch of land they haven't been able to get on the battlefield, end to sanctions, no Ukraine in NATO and gives up nothing.

(08-20-2025 04:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

He was a highly successful actor and producer who was rich before the war. The Pandora papers proved he held off-shore assets---but the papers also prove he had those assets before his presidency. He claims the off shore company was a way production companies avoided "censorship" during the Yanukovych presidency. lol--personally Im pretty sure he was actually trying to avoid taxes---but who knows. The investigation of these Pandora Papers assets found no links to money laundering. His net worth is public---about 30 million (which has not changed since his presidency began). He is NOT a billionaire as some claim. I would note his partner in the production company they co-own is a billionaire (and was before Z was president)---but Z is not---which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

We can go back and forth on sources---but I always look at common sense reasoning. With the capital surrounded and the US government telling him Kyiv would fall within days (perhaps even hours)---he refused the US offer to establish a government in exile in America. He could have easily raided the treasury, flew to America, and lived out the rest of his days in luxury as the leader of the Ukrainian government in exile. Instead, he risked the lives of himself---and his family---and stayed in Ukraine hoping to rally and inspire his army in their defense of Ukraine. To me---if it was all about the bucks he would have exited stage left in the early days of 2022 with the Ukrainian treasury account in tow. Im not saying he hasnt made mistakes---but I really do think he's doing what he thinks is best for his nation.

Right. The people who believe that stuff about him are being as stupid as the people who believed the Trump-Russia collusion BS. Neither of those make any sense to anyone who actually uses their brain.

(08-20-2025 12:42 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 10:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  If I were the Ukrainian generals, I would be using those drones to take out every railroad bridge inside Russia I can. Russia can't support the war with trucks on their dismal roads. Then circle back and attack the repair crews with drones.

Its a good idea, but Im fairly sure their drones arent carrying large enough warheads to take out bridges. They are pretty good at blowing up thin skinned soft targets like refineries. The current strategy of undermining the fuel the Russians can easily get to its army in Ukraine seems to be working. There are currently fuel shortages and rationing in the occupied areas of Ukraine as well as some limited areas of Russia. It may take time, but I think current strategy is starting to yield real dividends.

The Ukrainians are pretty inventive. I’ve seen videos of them infiltrating Russia and rigging the bridges with high explosives. Retreating to safe territory then sending a drone to set off the charges. Thinking back, they may have used tank mines as explosives.

They better start gettin to frickin



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NEW - Ukraine has reportedly lost 1.7 million men in the Russia-Ukraine war.
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MORE - Russian hackers breached the Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff database, leaking the information: 118,500 deaths in 2022, 405,400 in 2023, 595,000 in 2024, and a record 621,000 in 2025.
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1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers' losses exposed in hacked database
8:47 AM · Aug 20, 2025

(08-20-2025 05:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 12:42 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 10:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  If I were the Ukrainian generals, I would be using those drones to take out every railroad bridge inside Russia I can. Russia can't support the war with trucks on their dismal roads. Then circle back and attack the repair crews with drones.

Its a good idea, but Im fairly sure their drones arent carrying large enough warheads to take out bridges. They are pretty good at blowing up thin skinned soft targets like refineries. The current strategy of undermining the fuel the Russians can easily get to its army in Ukraine seems to be working. There are currently fuel shortages and rationing in the occupied areas of Ukraine as well as some limited areas of Russia. It may take time, but I think current strategy is starting to yield real dividends.

The Ukrainians are pretty inventive. I’ve seen videos of them infiltrating Russia and rigging the bridges with high explosives. Retreating to safe territory then sending a drone to set off the charges. Thinking back, they may have used tank mines as explosives.

They better start gettin to frickin



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Aug 20, 2025
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NEW - Ukraine has reportedly lost 1.7 million men in the Russia-Ukraine war.
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MORE - Russian hackers breached the Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff database, leaking the information: 118,500 deaths in 2022, 405,400 in 2023, 595,000 in 2024, and a record 621,000 in 2025.
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1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers' losses exposed in hacked database
8:47 AM · Aug 20, 2025

Sorry but I don’t believe that. It’s actually ridiculous if any thought is applied. Most military experts tell us the losses in the aggressor is most always higher than the defender. And I am pretty sure you have discounted the casualty figures on Russian loses. This ridiculous claim is more than the deaths of Russian soldiers by x3 when it should be the exact opposite. More actually than the entire armed forces of Ukraine. The Ukrainian losses have gone up lately with the introduction of drones though. Do you really believe those numbers?

Since we are on this subject, the Russian government has now loaded an app on all smart phones in Russia. It will spy on video, text and typed but unsent text. Next up they are considering changing the tax law to add an additional 30% to what is termed complainers of the war that they discover with their new spy app. Many are complaining that the app is seriously compromising their security and the government is adding those complaining to the additional tax list. Putin is really locking down on the public. Doesn’t sound like a country that is winning a war against the Nazis.

(08-20-2025 05:51 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 05:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 12:42 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 10:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  If I were the Ukrainian generals, I would be using those drones to take out every railroad bridge inside Russia I can. Russia can't support the war with trucks on their dismal roads. Then circle back and attack the repair crews with drones.

Its a good idea, but Im fairly sure their drones arent carrying large enough warheads to take out bridges. They are pretty good at blowing up thin skinned soft targets like refineries. The current strategy of undermining the fuel the Russians can easily get to its army in Ukraine seems to be working. There are currently fuel shortages and rationing in the occupied areas of Ukraine as well as some limited areas of Russia. It may take time, but I think current strategy is starting to yield real dividends.

The Ukrainians are pretty inventive. I’ve seen videos of them infiltrating Russia and rigging the bridges with high explosives. Retreating to safe territory then sending a drone to set off the charges. Thinking back, they may have used tank mines as explosives.

They better start gettin to frickin



Disclose.tv
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Aug 20, 2025
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NEW - Ukraine has reportedly lost 1.7 million men in the Russia-Ukraine war.
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MORE - Russian hackers breached the Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff database, leaking the information: 118,500 deaths in 2022, 405,400 in 2023, 595,000 in 2024, and a record 621,000 in 2025.
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1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers' losses exposed in hacked database
8:47 AM · Aug 20, 2025

Sorry but I don’t believe that. It’s actually ridiculous if any thought is applied. Most military experts tell us the losses in the aggressor is most always higher than the defender. And I am pretty sure you have discounted the casualty figures on Russian loses. This ridiculous claim is more than the deaths of Russian soldiers by x3 when it should be the exact opposite. More actually than the entire armed forces of Ukraine. The Ukrainian losses have gone up lately with the introduction of drones though. Do you really believe those numbers?

Since we are on this subject, the Russian government has now loaded an app on all smart phones in Russia. It will spy on video, text and typed but unsent text. Next up they are considering changing the tax law to add an additional 30% to what is termed complainers of the war that they discover with their new spy app. Many are complaining that the app is seriously compromising their security and the government is adding those complaining to the additional tax list. Putin is really locking down on the public. Doesn’t sound like a country that is winning a war against the Nazis.

Of course you dont believe it, its not pro slaviloon

(08-20-2025 05:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 12:42 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 10:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  If I were the Ukrainian generals, I would be using those drones to take out every railroad bridge inside Russia I can. Russia can't support the war with trucks on their dismal roads. Then circle back and attack the repair crews with drones.

Its a good idea, but Im fairly sure their drones arent carrying large enough warheads to take out bridges. They are pretty good at blowing up thin skinned soft targets like refineries. The current strategy of undermining the fuel the Russians can easily get to its army in Ukraine seems to be working. There are currently fuel shortages and rationing in the occupied areas of Ukraine as well as some limited areas of Russia. It may take time, but I think current strategy is starting to yield real dividends.

The Ukrainians are pretty inventive. I’ve seen videos of them infiltrating Russia and rigging the bridges with high explosives. Retreating to safe territory then sending a drone to set off the charges. Thinking back, they may have used tank mines as explosives.

They better start gettin to frickin



Disclose.tv
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Aug 20, 2025
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NEW - Ukraine has reportedly lost 1.7 million men in the Russia-Ukraine war.
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MORE - Russian hackers breached the Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff database, leaking the information: 118,500 deaths in 2022, 405,400 in 2023, 595,000 in 2024, and a record 621,000 in 2025.
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1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers' losses exposed in hacked database
8:47 AM · Aug 20, 2025

OH NO!!!!!! According to Shere's super solid source, in just the last 6 months, Russia has killed or wounded virtually every single Ukrainian soldier in the field!!!! Yet another hot scoop from Lord Bimbo I guess. So---with the Ukrainian Army completely wiped out, my question for the more critical thinkers out there is why isnt Russia in Kyiv yet? A stuck red light? No gas money? Cant find the car keys? lol---to me the funniest thing is Shere actually still believes this kind of dumb crap nearly 4 years into the war.

#10DaysToKyivPutin2022

(08-20-2025 05:58 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 05:51 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 05:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 12:42 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 11:12 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its a good idea, but Im fairly sure their drones arent carrying large enough warheads to take out bridges. They are pretty good at blowing up thin skinned soft targets like refineries. The current strategy of undermining the fuel the Russians can easily get to its army in Ukraine seems to be working. There are currently fuel shortages and rationing in the occupied areas of Ukraine as well as some limited areas of Russia. It may take time, but I think current strategy is starting to yield real dividends.

The Ukrainians are pretty inventive. I’ve seen videos of them infiltrating Russia and rigging the bridges with high explosives. Retreating to safe territory then sending a drone to set off the charges. Thinking back, they may have used tank mines as explosives.

They better start gettin to frickin



Disclose.tv
·
Aug 20, 2025
@disclosetv
·
Follow
NEW - Ukraine has reportedly lost 1.7 million men in the Russia-Ukraine war.
Disclose.tv
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MORE - Russian hackers breached the Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff database, leaking the information: 118,500 deaths in 2022, 405,400 in 2023, 595,000 in 2024, and a record 621,000 in 2025.
disclose.tv
1.7 million Ukrainian soldiers' losses exposed in hacked database
8:47 AM · Aug 20, 2025

Sorry but I don’t believe that. It’s actually ridiculous if any thought is applied. Most military experts tell us the losses in the aggressor is most always higher than the defender. And I am pretty sure you have discounted the casualty figures on Russian loses. This ridiculous claim is more than the deaths of Russian soldiers by x3 when it should be the exact opposite. More actually than the entire armed forces of Ukraine. The Ukrainian losses have gone up lately with the introduction of drones though. Do you really believe those numbers?

Since we are on this subject, the Russian government has now loaded an app on all smart phones in Russia. It will spy on video, text and typed but unsent text. Next up they are considering changing the tax law to add an additional 30% to what is termed complainers of the war that they discover with their new spy app. Many are complaining that the app is seriously compromising their security and the government is adding those complaining to the additional tax list. Putin is really locking down on the public. Doesn’t sound like a country that is winning a war against the Nazis.

Of course you dont believe it, its not pro slaviloon

I asked you did you believe it. You didn’t answer just slavilooned. I’m trying to keep it a little more grown up for the crowd. You want to just go back to having fun just the two of us with our “ not funny” retorts?

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

If this were true, why wouldn’t he just end the war now and enjoy his generational wealth? Are you suggesting that he had rather grift a few more dollars even though we’re not sending any and risk his sure death at the hands of the Russians eventually? Sorry, but that thinking is just not serious.

(08-20-2025 04:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

He was a highly successful actor and producer who was rich before the war. The Pandora papers proved he held off-shore assets---but the papers also prove he had those assets before his presidency. He claims the off shore company was a way production companies avoided "censorship" during the Yanukovych presidency. lol--personally Im pretty sure he was actually trying to avoid taxes---but who knows. The investigation of these Pandora Papers assets found no links to money laundering. His net worth is public---about 30 million (which has not changed since his presidency began). He is NOT a billionaire as some claim. I would note his partner in the production company they co-own is a billionaire (and was before Z was president)---but Z is not---which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

We can go back and forth on sources---but I always look at common sense reasoning. With the capital surrounded and the US government telling him Kyiv would fall within days (perhaps even hours)---he refused the US offer to establish a government in exile in America. He could have easily raided the treasury, flew to America, and lived out the rest of his days in luxury as the leader of the Ukrainian government in exile. Instead, he risked the lives of himself---and his family---and stayed in Ukraine hoping to rally and inspire his army in their defense of Ukraine. To me---if it was all about the bucks he would have exited stage left in the early days of 2022 with the Ukrainian treasury account in tow. Im not saying he hasnt made mistakes---but I really do think he's doing what he thinks is best for his nation.

You said it very well and all you said was the truth. Quite the opposite from the mafia government Putin runs.

(08-20-2025 05:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 04:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2025 03:54 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "Z" has gotten generational wealth on the back of this war. He isn't looking for peace.

He was a highly successful actor and producer who was rich before the war. The Pandora papers proved he held off-shore assets---but the papers also prove he had those assets before his presidency. He claims the off shore company was a way production companies avoided "censorship" during the Yanukovych presidency. lol--personally Im pretty sure he was actually trying to avoid taxes---but who knows. The investigation of these Pandora Papers assets found no links to money laundering. His net worth is public---about 30 million (which has not changed since his presidency began). He is NOT a billionaire as some claim. I would note his partner in the production company they co-own is a billionaire---but Z is not---which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

We can go back and forth on sources---but I always look a common sense reasoning. With the capital surrounded and the US government telling him Kyiv would fall within days (perhaps even hours)---he refused the US offer to establish a government in exile in America. He could have easily raided the treasury, flew to America, and lived out the rest of his days in luxury as the leader of the Ukrainian government in exile. Instead, he risked the lives of himself---and his family---and stayed in Ukraine hoping to rally and inspire his army to in their defense of Ukraine. To me---if it was all about the bucks he would have exited stage left in 2022 with Ukrainian treasury account in tow.

Oh FFS



Frick that little bastard He is a globohomo puppet dictator installed by filth.

Muh literally churchill shite yet again

That’s literally why I began calling you Sure Karen.

Y'all still ain't funny.