(08-18-2025 03:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  The current lines of battle are not real defensible over the long term. It creates a really long boundary. Crimea's boundary is mostly water, so that's easy. Luhansk in the NE being Russian shortens lines. Part of Donetsk is ok. But the two southern oblasts make for a lot longer boundary to defend. Ukraine needs to get those back as part of recognizing Russia's control over Crimea and areas in the east.

I don't disagree that that's what should happen. The only problem is what most likely will happen, which will most likely be Ukraine having to give up land. (At least land that's currently under Russian control, regardless of where it is.) The fact of the matter is Russia acquired the land it's currently occupying through the war, which means it's most likely not giving it back. And Land For Security might be the only way this ends. Whether or not we like it, that's probably what's going to happen.

ollie: I knew it looked rather dubious to me at first glance. lol

(08-18-2025 03:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  The current lines of battle are not real defensible over the long term. It creates a really long boundary. Crimea's boundary is mostly water, so that's easy. Luhansk in the NE being Russian shortens lines. Part of Donetsk is ok. But the two southern oblasts make for a lot longer boundary to defend. Ukraine needs to get those back as part of recognizing Russia's control over Crimea and areas in the east.

Crimea and part of Donetsk + Luhansk to Russia would be a great resolution.

But, the reality is that half the current battle line has followed the Dnieper River from the Black Sea to about 20 miles south of the Zaporizhzhia metro area for more than 2 years....because it is a natural and defensible boundary.

From there, the battle line meanders only about 70 miles to the western edge of the Donetsk region, then juts back and forth through the western Donetsk region until roughly the historic edges of the Luhansk region border.

That stretch from the Dnieper River to the Donetsk and Luhansk borders stretching all the way to the Ukraine-Russia border is shorter than the pre-War western Ukraine-Russia border.

(08-18-2025 03:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:35 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:07 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:07 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Would you rather Trump not even try? I'm being serious here. Trump is the only world leader trying -- actively trying, really -- to bring an end to this damn thing since he returned to the White House, much less at all. Nobody else since the start of this damn war (February 2022) has been willing to step up to the plate and even try, as far as I can tell.

Sure, Putin's an @$shole. I completely agree with you. But the fact remains the two countries will not return to pre-2022 borders, much less pre-2014 borders. I think Zelenskyy realizes that he's going to have to make some land concessions. (That is, giving up territory that Russia already controls.) The map is going to be redrawn, plain and simple.

As to your other point (the one about the PRC), it's a possibility, but Russia is the largest country on the planet in terms of land area. I don't see the ChiComs taking over all of that land. Maybe some of it if Putin is indeed weaker than we laypeople think. But all of it? I'm sorry, but I don't see it at all.

I am all for Trump trying to end this war. I am just highly against rewarding in any way this type of aggression. Putin should have some responsibility for the loss of life and destruction he has caused. I’m not sure what that is. Russia is in dire economic distress. More pressure from the US sanctions wise and Ukraine striking inside Russia could very easily win the war.

I never said the PRC had designs on all of Russia, but there was a plan laid out by a PRC party leader that tried to defect to Russia. They had planned on the possibility of the land east of the Caucasus should Russia crumble. China and Russia have had territorial disputes for centuries and Russia took a lot of land from China during the opium wars. There is no doubting they want that energy rich land back.

In a perfect world---I agree. But this is not a perfect world. Its time to accept the realities on the ground and deal in the art of the possible. If a "land for security" compromise peace deal can be crafted that both sides can live with---then that is the best option for everyone at this point and is far better than fighting on for several more years before realizing the only way to end this is via negotiated settlement. This is a stalemate and its never going to be solved to the complete satisfaction of either party on the battlefield. The killing needs to end sooner rather than later---even if the solution is less than ideal and involves compromise.

Exactly my point, fellow Coog. The death and destruction on both sides must end. And apparently, there are over twenty thousand Ukrainian children being held hostage by Russia, too? If that's the case, they should also be returned to their parents or at least to any surviving family members.

WSME: I'm sorry, but Attackcoog's right. Not only that, but never underestimate how many troops Russia is willing to send to the front lines in order to achieve its objective. Even if Russia's economy is cratering, it still has one resource it can use to keep the war going: Men. That is, soldiers. We saw it during World War II when the Soviet Union was ruled by Stalin. It kept throwing millions of soldiers at Germany and ultimately helped the Allies win. (And the unforgiving winters helped cripple Germany's eastern front.) My point is this: Putin would love nothing more to keep the war going by throwing more troops at Ukraine, regardless of how Russia's economy is doing. But it looks like Putin's tired of the bloodshed, too. (Despite the drone strike in Kharkiv earlier today, of course.) As for China, I realize you didn't mean the ChiComs would take all of Russia. I was just saying I don't see how that would happen if they did want to take it all.

I think one factor that is making Putin more ready to compromise is Ukraines long range drone campaign has shifted back to hitting their refineries. Shortages and fuel rationing are being forced on some limited Russian areas. I think Putin realizes it wont be long before a bigger supply of domestically built cruise missiles and ballistic missiles with substantially longer ranges and MUCH larger warheads are going to vastly increase the potential damage level to his infrastructure from these attacks. These longer range missiles have already been tested and are in now serial production. It wont be long until the Ukrainians are able to place a 500 pound to one-ton warhead as much as 1000 miles deep into Russian territory. The Russians are simply incapable of defending that much territory from jet powered cruise missiles or rocket powered ballistic missiles.

To be honest they don’t seem to have much defensive ability to stop anything. Refineries are being hit one after another. Two more last night. And sank a cargo ship carrying Iranian shahed drones.

(08-18-2025 04:16 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  That tank with the American and Russian flags looks fake. They're not flapping alike, it must be AI.

Maybe since it came from Russian media.

Love me some Meloni. Short, Spicy, and Mean.

(08-18-2025 03:30 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

Pootey-poots lame attempt as his own “flyover”. Sorry, no one’s impressed.

Damn son, for being such a decorated bare back riding badass, why you still driving out tanks that got your asses kicked out of Afghanistan 40 years ago?

It’s over bro. Yea, you’ve got 27 bazillion nukes somewhere. Great. Will any of them fly? Has anyone seen a test fire of one of these antiques since 1985?

Why you gimpy?

Paper tiger that will do way more harm to his own people than he can to a neighbor of wheat farmers and goat and pig herders.

This is a scam. Get it over with. Putin ain’t lighting no fuse. Threats are all he has.

Maybe they start having unpredictable “accidents” on their satellite fleet, ya know sunspots and all?

Who’s rushing to their rescue?

Exactly.
No one

Exactly, Duke. It was a lame attempt, if it's real. Besides, even if it is real, there's no way to know if we gave them the okay to do so. (We most likely didn't, but that hasn't stopped certain people before.)

Also, I'm convinced that the left either wants the war to continue no matter what, or at least until Trump is out of office so they have "make" their own sorry excuse for a peace deal. Not only that, but they were complaining about the fact Trump rolled out the red carpet for Putin! Oh, yeah! That totally proves Trump's a Russian asset and Putin's puppet! Great catch, leftists! *rolls eyes sarcastically* Dude's trying to bring an end to the war, and y'all are complaining about a red carpet being rolled out? What the hell did y'all do when y'all were in the White House? You know, when Biden stumbled about? Nothing, especially considering the war started under him. (Really, the real start of the war was under Obama when Russia invaded and took Crimea.) Yet we're supposed to believe you could do a better job trying cutting a peace deal? Pfft! Absolutely not. You'd think y'all would learn, but y'all never do.

Radical leftism is a mental disorder.

Also, talks are underway to set up a trilateral meeting between Trump, Putin and Zelenskyy so they can all start working out a peace deal.

I say put all three in a boxing ring and

(08-18-2025 10:01 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  Love me some Meloni. Short, Spicy, and Mean.

One of the very few seriously good leaders in Europe. Most are lefties.

(08-19-2025 04:04 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Also, talks are underway to set up a trilateral meeting between Trump, Putin and Zelenskyy so they can all start working out a peace deal.

I thought there was going to be a Putin-Z meeting first.

(08-18-2025 11:09 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 03:30 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

Pootey-poots lame attempt as his own “flyover”. Sorry, no one’s impressed.

Damn son, for being such a decorated bare back riding badass, why you still driving out tanks that got your asses kicked out of Afghanistan 40 years ago?

It’s over bro. Yea, you’ve got 27 bazillion nukes somewhere. Great. Will any of them fly? Has anyone seen a test fire of one of these antiques since 1985?

Why you gimpy?

Paper tiger that will do way more harm to his own people than he can to a neighbor of wheat farmers and goat and pig herders.

This is a scam. Get it over with. Putin ain’t lighting no fuse. Threats are all he has.

Maybe they start having unpredictable “accidents” on their satellite fleet, ya know sunspots and all?

Who’s rushing to their rescue?

Exactly.
No one

I would bet all of the cash reserved for tritium supplies was stolen by corrupt generals. What you think?




Russia has attempted to fire 4 ballistic multiple warhead missiles while at war with Ukraine. One successful launch dropped its inert payload on Ukraine. There are videos of this. One blew up on launch. One blew up while fueling and one went off course and disintegrated during reentry.

(08-19-2025 09:01 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 11:09 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 03:30 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

Pootey-poots lame attempt as his own “flyover”. Sorry, no one’s impressed.

Damn son, for being such a decorated bare back riding badass, why you still driving out tanks that got your asses kicked out of Afghanistan 40 years ago?

It’s over bro. Yea, you’ve got 27 bazillion nukes somewhere. Great. Will any of them fly? Has anyone seen a test fire of one of these antiques since 1985?

Why you gimpy?

Paper tiger that will do way more harm to his own people than he can to a neighbor of wheat farmers and goat and pig herders.

This is a scam. Get it over with. Putin ain’t lighting no fuse. Threats are all he has.

Maybe they start having unpredictable “accidents” on their satellite fleet, ya know sunspots and all?

Who’s rushing to their rescue?

Exactly.
No one

I would bet all of the cash reserved for tritium supplies was stolen by corrupt generals. What you think?




Russia has attempted to fire 4 ballistic multiple warhead missiles while at war with Ukraine. One successful launch dropped its inert payload on Ukraine. There are videos of this. One blew up on launch. One blew up while fueling and one went off course and disintegrated during reentry.

Sure sure...and somehow they bring our astronauts home.

Time for you to ship out, man up and go fight for Ukraine.

(08-19-2025 08:58 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-19-2025 04:04 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Also, talks are underway to set up a trilateral meeting between Trump, Putin and Zelenskyy so they can all start working out a peace deal.

I thought there was going to be a Putin-Z meeting first.

I had the TV on mute. lol

(08-19-2025 09:13 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

lololol!!

Via Fox News.com

5 key moments inside Trump’s ‘big day’ with Zelenskyy, European leaders

(There's a video on the page that you can watch if you'd like.)

Quote:5 key moments inside Trump’s ‘big day’ with Zelenskyy, European leaders
Trump wrote on Truth Social that 'everyone is very happy about the possibility of PEACE for Russia/Ukraine'
Peter Pinedo By Peter Pinedo Fox News
Published August 19, 2025 8:00am EDT | Updated August 19, 2025 9:55am EDT

After meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska last week, President Donald Trump touted that he had a "very good meeting" with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders at the White House on Monday.

Trump, who has voiced he would like to put an end to mass bloodshed in Eastern Europe, called the multilateral meetings on Monday "a very good, early step for a War that has been going on for almost four years."

In a Truth Social post after the discussions, Trump wrote, "I had a very good meeting with distinguished guests," and that "everyone is very happy about the possibility of PEACE for Russia/Ukraine."

Here are the top five takeaways from the president’s "big day" with European leaders.

1. Smiles all around

Monday’s summit marked a dramatic and noticeable shift from Trump and Vice President JD Vance’s now-infamous Oval Office meeting with Zelenskyy in February.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy gestures as President Donald Trump reacts during a meeting in the Oval Office of the White House, amid negotiations to end the Russian war in Ukraine, Aug. 18, 2025. (Reuters/Kevin Lamarque)

During that meeting, the leaders were caught on camera getting into a heated argument over several topics, including Zelenskyy allegedly not being sufficiently grateful for U.S. support.

On Monday, all the tension seemed to have disappeared. Both Trump and Zelenskyy were all smiles throughout the day, and the Ukrainian leader received a warm welcome from Trump’s Cabinet, including Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

Both Zelenskyy and European leaders appeared more at ease with Trump throughout the day and took an optimistic tone. After the meetings, European Union President Ursula von der Leyen posted on X, "We are here, as allies and friends, for peace in Ukraine and in Europe. This is an important moment, as we continue to work on strong security guarantees for Ukraine and a lasting and durable peace

2. Wardrobe upgrade

Another marked shift from February was Zelenskyy breaking from his trademark jumpsuit attire to wear a suit, something he even joked with the press about while sitting in the Oval Office with Trump.

Zelenskyy, who has been criticized for wearing casual attire to meetings with world leaders, wore all-black attire, including a button-down shirt and jacket.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is greeted by President Donald Trump upon arrival at the White House on Aug. 18, 2025. (Andrew Caballero-Reynolds/AFP via Getty Images)

"First of all… President Zelenskyy, you look fabulous in that suit," a reporter told Zelenskyy after he sat down with Trump in the Oval Office.

"You look good," the reporter said before Trump added, "I said the same thing."

At another point during the Zelenskyy-Trump bilateral press meeting, the Ukrainian president ribbed a reporter for wearing the same suit he had in February.

"You're in the same suit. You see, I changed, you’re not," Zelenskyy quipped as both he and Trump burst into laughter.

3. Ceasefire not needed

On a more substantive note, Trump doubled down on his position that a ceasefire is "not needed" to broker a permanent peace between Ukraine and Russia. He cited his recent successes in negotiating peace agreements between other countries across the globe.

"I don't think you need ceasefire. You know, if you look at the six deals that I settled this year, they were all at war," Trump said during his press conference with Zelenskyy.


President Donald Trump and European leaders gather for a multilateral meeting in the White House on Aug. 18, 2025. (Reuters/Alexander Drago)

"I didn't do any ceasefires," he went on, adding, "And I know that it might be good to have, but I can also understand strategically why, you know, one country or the other wouldn't want it."

In a rare tense moment during the day, Trump clashed with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz over the need for a ceasefire.

Speaking with Trump and other leaders gathered around a large conference table in the White House, Merz said, "To be honest, we all would like to see a ceasefire at the latest from the next meeting on," adding, "I can't imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire. So, let's work on that."

He urged the leaders, "Let's try to put pressure on Russia, because the credibility of this effort, these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on, at least, a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from the next step on. So, I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place."

In response, Trump shot back that he is determined "to go directly to a peace agreement" without a ceasefire, saying, "Well, we're going to let the president [Zelenskyy] go over and talk to the president [Putin], and we'll see how that works out."


Smoke rises over the Kyiv skyline after a Russian attack on July 8, 2024. (AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka)

4. United European front

In addition to Zelenskyy, seven major European leaders were present at the White House on Monday, a rare occurrence signaling a united European front and something Trump called an "honor" for the U.S.

This follows Zelenskyy doubling down on Sunday that Ukraine will not agree to cede Crimea or any of its territory to Russia as part of a peace deal.

"Since the territorial issue is so important, it should be discussed only by the leaders of Ukraine and Russia at the trilateral [talks with] Ukraine, United States, Russia," Zelenskyy said.

Trump said that though the U.S. would be involved with providing Ukraine with security guarantees after the war’s end, he said going forward, Europe must take much of that "burden."

"I think that the European nations are going to take a lot of the burden," Trump said. "We're going to help them, and we're going to make it very secure. We also need to discuss the possible exchanges of territory, taking into consideration the current line of contact. That means the war zone, the war line center. Pretty obvious. Very sad, actually, to look at them and negotiating positions."

Meanwhile, French President Emmanuel Macron said Europe is aware that it will shoulder much of the weight of responsibility tied to various security guarantees — and acknowledged it is necessary in order to preserve each respective country’s safety.


President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, French President Emmanuel Macron, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, Finland's President Alexander Stubb, NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen pose amid negotiations at the White House, Aug. 18, 2025. (Alexander Drago/Reuters)

"In order to have such a long-standing peace for Ukraine and for the whole continent, we do need the security guarantees," Macron said. "And the first one is clearly a credible Ukrainian army. For the years and decades to come. And the second one is our own commitments. All of us… You can be sure that the Europeans are very lucid about the fact that they have their fair share in the security guarantees for Ukraine, but their own security is clearly at stake in this situation."

5. Putin on the line

Trump shared that he called Putin after the meetings and that there is already movement on the next step, that is, scheduling a meeting between Zelenskyy and the Russian president. After that meeting, Trump said there would then be a trilateral meeting between Zelenskyy, Putin and himself.


President Donald Trump meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage, Alaska, on Aug. 15, 2025. (Reuters/Kevin Lamarque)

"At the conclusion of the meetings, I called President Putin, and began the arrangements for a meeting, at a location to be determined, between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. After that meeting takes place, we will have a Trilat, which would be the two Presidents, plus myself," wrote Trump.

In another post, Trump called the summit "a big day at the White House."

"We have never had so many European Leaders here at one time. A great honor for America!!!" he wrote. "Lets see what the results will be???"

Fox News Digital's Diana Stancy, Emma Colton and Amanda Macias contributed to this report.

(08-19-2025 09:13 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-19-2025 09:01 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 11:09 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 03:30 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

Pootey-poots lame attempt as his own “flyover”. Sorry, no one’s impressed.

Damn son, for being such a decorated bare back riding badass, why you still driving out tanks that got your asses kicked out of Afghanistan 40 years ago?

It’s over bro. Yea, you’ve got 27 bazillion nukes somewhere. Great. Will any of them fly? Has anyone seen a test fire of one of these antiques since 1985?

Why you gimpy?

Paper tiger that will do way more harm to his own people than he can to a neighbor of wheat farmers and goat and pig herders.

This is a scam. Get it over with. Putin ain’t lighting no fuse. Threats are all he has.

Maybe they start having unpredictable “accidents” on their satellite fleet, ya know sunspots and all?

Who’s rushing to their rescue?

Exactly.
No one

I would bet all of the cash reserved for tritium supplies was stolen by corrupt generals. What you think?




Russia has attempted to fire 4 ballistic multiple warhead missiles while at war with Ukraine. One successful launch dropped its inert payload on Ukraine. There are videos of this. One blew up on launch. One blew up while fueling and one went off course and disintegrated during reentry.

Sure sure...and somehow they bring our astronauts home.

Time for you to ship out, man up and go fight for Ukraine.

I'm taller than Zelenskyy by two inches. lol (At least according to my driver's license.) (For those wondering, I'm 5'9" while Zelenskyy's only 5'7".)

(08-19-2025 08:58 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-19-2025 04:04 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Also, talks are underway to set up a trilateral meeting between Trump, Putin and Zelenskyy so they can all start working out a peace deal.

I thought there was going to be a Putin-Z meeting first.

I don't think you can let that happen.. Zelinskyy is a push over and Putin is a bully... If Zelinskyy hears something he doesn't like he'll run and cry to the US Dems, media, and the European leaders about how mean Putin is... You have to have some type of mediator.

(08-19-2025 11:04 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  I'm taller than Zelenskyy by two inches. lol (At least according to my driver's license.) (For those wondering, I'm 5'9" while Zelenskyy's only 5'7".)

Hehehe... Shorty