(08-18-2025 01:49 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Here’s a decidedly stupid question that I haven’t seen asked in all of this:

Where is the mighty Army of baby blue helmets in all this? Has the useless debate club UN offered anything in all this?

This is Russia, Ukraine and EUROPE’s freaking war. Why is it being hosted in D.C.? What was wrong with London, Paris or Berlin?

How and why did this become “our” problem, other than the idiot in thief Sloe* green lighted this schit?

It has been dealt with in Europe. The simple fact is the US is the most powerful and influencial country on the planet. It’s not always easy to be the leader. Much is expected of a leader. I do realize though that some don’t like that position. Maybe they would prefer China assume that roll.

(08-18-2025 02:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:07 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:07 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:56 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:49 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Oh, I know! How dare Trump try to end the damn war, right?

As the Canadians would say, take off!

Huh? You saying I can’t have an opinion? I would think Trump would understand Putin now. He has to. So there must be something else going on here. Maybe the defense department has info that China will move on a weakened Russia if Putin is eliminated. There has to be something else here.
Trump has not stopped Putin from doing anything yet. Am I wrong?

Would you rather Trump not even try? I'm being serious here. Trump is the only world leader trying -- actively trying, really -- to bring an end to this damn thing since he returned to the White House, much less at all. Nobody else since the start of this damn war (February 2022) has been willing to step up to the plate and even try, as far as I can tell.

Sure, Putin's an @$shole. I completely agree with you. But the fact remains the two countries will not return to pre-2022 borders, much less pre-2014 borders. I think Zelenskyy realizes that he's going to have to make some land concessions. (That is, giving up territory that Russia already controls.) The map is going to be redrawn, plain and simple.

As to your other point (the one about the PRC), it's a possibility, but Russia is the largest country on the planet in terms of land area. I don't see the ChiComs taking over all of that land. Maybe some of it if Putin is indeed weaker than we laypeople think. But all of it? I'm sorry, but I don't see it at all.

I am all for Trump trying to end this war. I am just highly against rewarding in any way this type of aggression. Putin should have some responsibility for the loss of life and destruction he has caused. I’m not sure what that is. Russia is in dire economic distress. More pressure from the US sanctions wise and Ukraine striking inside Russia could very easily win the war.

I never said the PRC had designs on all of Russia, but there was a plan laid out by a PRC party leader that tried to defect to Russia. They had planned on the possibility of the land east of the Caucasus should Russia crumble. China and Russia have had territorial disputes for centuries and Russia took a lot of land from China during the opium wars. There is no doubting they want that energy rich land back.

In a perfect world---I agree. But this is not a perfect world. Its time to accept the realities on the ground and deal in the art of the possible. If a "land for security" compromise peace deal can be crafted that both sides can live with---then that is the best option for everyone at this point and is far better than fighting on for several more years before realizing the only way to end this is via negotiated settlement. This is a stalemate and its never going to be solved to the complete satisfaction of either party on the battlefield. The killing needs to end sooner rather than later---even if the solution is less than ideal and involves compromise.

Exactly my point, fellow Coog. The death and destruction on both sides must end. And apparently, there are over twenty thousand Ukrainian children being held hostage by Russia, too? If that's the case, they should also be returned to their parents or at least to any surviving family members.

WSME: I'm sorry, but Attackcoog's right. Not only that, but never underestimate how many troops Russia is willing to send to the front lines in order to achieve its objective. Even if Russia's economy is cratering, it still has one resource it can use to keep the war going: Men. That is, soldiers. We saw it during World War II when the Soviet Union was ruled by Stalin. It kept throwing millions of soldiers at Germany and ultimately helped the Allies win. (And the unforgiving winters helped cripple Germany's eastern front.) My point is this: Putin would love nothing more to keep the war going by throwing more troops at Ukraine, regardless of how Russia's economy is doing. But it looks like Putin's tired of the bloodshed, too. (Despite the drone strike in Kharkiv earlier today, of course.) As for China, I realize you didn't mean the ChiComs would take all of Russia. I was just saying I don't see how that would happen if they did want to take it all.

ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

(08-18-2025 12:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Little midget larping Turd wore a black t shirt and platform shoes.
.FFS

Frick Ukraine

Nah. He actually wore a black dress shirt buttoned to the neck, and a formal non-traditional suit coat, but no tie.

Trump and several others complimented him on his attire.

Fox even has an article up wondering how he would show up, lol.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukraini...ting-trump

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)Claw Wrote:  ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

Article yesterday said Xi promised Trump he wouldn't go after Taiwan until Trump left office. That's how afraid everybody is of Trump.

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:03 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Little midget larping Turd wore a black t shirt and platform shoes.
.FFS

Frick Ukraine

Nah. He actually wore a black dress shirt buttoned to the neck, and a formal non-traditional suit coat, but no tie.

Trump and several others complimented him on his attire.

Fox even has an article up wondering how he would show up, lol.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukraini...ting-trump

He needs a clown suit

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)Claw Wrote:  ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

Well that’s what they say. They also supposedly told Trump they would not invade Taiwan while Trump was president if you believe Trump. And I do.

They also supposedly have plans to invade eastern Russia if the opportunity arises.

Taiwan might not turn nuclear, eastern Russia would.

Gordon Sondland, former U.S. Ambassador to the E.U., just echoed what Attackcoog and I have been saying while also saying that Ukraine is 100% in the right and Russia is 100% in the wrong. And he also said it's looking like Trump will get both Putin and Zelenskyy in the same room in the coming days. (Key phrase: looking like.)

(08-18-2025 02:47 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)Claw Wrote:  ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

Article yesterday said Xi promised Trump he wouldn't go after Taiwan until Trump left office. That's how afraid everybody is of Trump.

I was told everyone laughs at Trump

(08-18-2025 03:07 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:47 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)Claw Wrote:  ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

Article yesterday said Xi promised Trump he wouldn't go after Taiwan until Trump left office. That's how afraid everybody is of Trump.

I was told everyone laughs at Trump

Why would anyone laugh at a taco?

(08-18-2025 02:33 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:49 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Here’s a decidedly stupid question that I haven’t seen asked in all of this:

Where is the mighty Army of baby blue helmets in all this? Has the useless debate club UN offered anything in all this?

This is Russia, Ukraine and EUROPE’s freaking war. Why is it being hosted in D.C.? What was wrong with London, Paris or Berlin?

How and why did this become “our” problem, other than the idiot in thief Sloe* green lighted this schit?

It has been dealt with in Europe. The simple fact is the US is the most powerful and influencial country on the planet. It’s not always easy to be the leader. Much is expected of a leader. I do realize though that some don’t like that position. Maybe they would prefer China assume that roll.

Not aware of anyone suggesting that. This is a Europe problem. Why isn't one of their so-called leaders stepping up and saying "I'm here, we will lead the way to finding a resolution that will lead to a more secure Europe for all and prosperity... blah blah blah whatever.

Yes, Trump decided to take this on, but that was for one simple reason- There was a vacuum and no one else decided to fill it. The Eurocuck "Leaders" are scared, ineffective and completely neutered by their own actions and likely designs.

Not really "our" problem.

(08-18-2025 02:56 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Gordon Sondland, former U.S. Ambassador to the E.U., just echoed what Attackcoog and I have been saying while also saying that Ukraine is 100% in the right and Russia is 100% in the wrong. And he also said it's looking like Trump will get both Putin and Zelenskyy in the same room in the coming days. (Key phrase: looking like.)

Of course he did. He is a registered lobbyist for Ukraine

(08-18-2025 02:56 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Gordon Sondland, former U.S. Ambassador to the E.U., just echoed what Attackcoog and I have been saying while also saying that Ukraine is 100% in the right and Russia is 100% in the wrong. And he also said it's looking like Trump will get both Putin and Zelenskyy in the same room in the coming days. (Key phrase: looking like.)

That would be an improvement. We will see.

(08-18-2025 02:35 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:07 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:07 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:56 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Huh? You saying I can’t have an opinion? I would think Trump would understand Putin now. He has to. So there must be something else going on here. Maybe the defense department has info that China will move on a weakened Russia if Putin is eliminated. There has to be something else here.
Trump has not stopped Putin from doing anything yet. Am I wrong?

Would you rather Trump not even try? I'm being serious here. Trump is the only world leader trying -- actively trying, really -- to bring an end to this damn thing since he returned to the White House, much less at all. Nobody else since the start of this damn war (February 2022) has been willing to step up to the plate and even try, as far as I can tell.

Sure, Putin's an @$shole. I completely agree with you. But the fact remains the two countries will not return to pre-2022 borders, much less pre-2014 borders. I think Zelenskyy realizes that he's going to have to make some land concessions. (That is, giving up territory that Russia already controls.) The map is going to be redrawn, plain and simple.

As to your other point (the one about the PRC), it's a possibility, but Russia is the largest country on the planet in terms of land area. I don't see the ChiComs taking over all of that land. Maybe some of it if Putin is indeed weaker than we laypeople think. But all of it? I'm sorry, but I don't see it at all.

I am all for Trump trying to end this war. I am just highly against rewarding in any way this type of aggression. Putin should have some responsibility for the loss of life and destruction he has caused. I’m not sure what that is. Russia is in dire economic distress. More pressure from the US sanctions wise and Ukraine striking inside Russia could very easily win the war.

I never said the PRC had designs on all of Russia, but there was a plan laid out by a PRC party leader that tried to defect to Russia. They had planned on the possibility of the land east of the Caucasus should Russia crumble. China and Russia have had territorial disputes for centuries and Russia took a lot of land from China during the opium wars. There is no doubting they want that energy rich land back.

In a perfect world---I agree. But this is not a perfect world. Its time to accept the realities on the ground and deal in the art of the possible. If a "land for security" compromise peace deal can be crafted that both sides can live with---then that is the best option for everyone at this point and is far better than fighting on for several more years before realizing the only way to end this is via negotiated settlement. This is a stalemate and its never going to be solved to the complete satisfaction of either party on the battlefield. The killing needs to end sooner rather than later---even if the solution is less than ideal and involves compromise.

Exactly my point, fellow Coog. The death and destruction on both sides must end. And apparently, there are over twenty thousand Ukrainian children being held hostage by Russia, too? If that's the case, they should also be returned to their parents or at least to any surviving family members.

WSME: I'm sorry, but Attackcoog's right. Not only that, but never underestimate how many troops Russia is willing to send to the front lines in order to achieve its objective. Even if Russia's economy is cratering, it still has one resource it can use to keep the war going: Men. That is, soldiers. We saw it during World War II when the Soviet Union was ruled by Stalin. It kept throwing millions of soldiers at Germany and ultimately helped the Allies win. (And the unforgiving winters helped cripple Germany's eastern front.) My point is this: Putin would love nothing more to keep the war going by throwing more troops at Ukraine, regardless of how Russia's economy is doing. But it looks like Putin's tired of the bloodshed, too. (Despite the drone strike in Kharkiv earlier today, of course.) As for China, I realize you didn't mean the ChiComs would take all of Russia. I was just saying I don't see how that would happen if they did want to take it all.

I think one factor that is making Putin more ready to compromise is Ukraines long range drone campaign has shifted back to hitting their refineries. Shortages and fuel rationing are being forced on some limited Russian areas. I think Putin realizes it wont be long before a bigger supply of domestically built cruise missiles and ballistic missiles with substantially longer ranges and MUCH larger warheads are going to vastly increase the potential damage level to his infrastructure from these attacks. These longer range missiles have already been tested and are in now serial production. It wont be long until the Ukrainians are able to place a 500 pound to one-ton warhead as much as 1000 miles deep into Russian territory. The Russians are simply incapable of defending that much territory from jet powered cruise missiles or rocket powered ballistic missiles.

(08-18-2025 01:23 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:17 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:14 PM)Claw Wrote:  I think the "something else" is the mass unpopularity of this war by the people in both countries. That wasn't the case early on, but this has drug on so long the people want it over.

I would like to see some provisions and funding for people to move freely across the new borders to where they want to live. It's needed for long-term stability.

Agreed. Those who feel more Russian can move to the Russian-occupied areas and those who feel more Ukrainian can move out of those areas. And yes, there should definitely be some reimbursement for those people who choose to do so. That is if that ends up being part of any peace agreement that's reached.

Agree. The areas currently occupied by Russia have always had a large ethnic Russian population. In some areas, a huge majority. The sad part of all of this is that it should have all been drawn when Ukraine broke from the USSR but obviously, it wasn't. They stuck with the borders they had as a Soviet Republic. Since then, the populations have shifted considerably. Heck, a few decades ago, Crimea was primarily Crimean Tartars. Now its primarily Russian.

Crimea was mostly Russian. The two southern regions had few Russians. Luhansk in the NE and Donetsk in the SE were about 60% Ukrainian/35% Russian with the cities heavier Russian and the rural areas more Ukrainian. Russia pretty much took the Russian areas in 2014.

(08-18-2025 02:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 02:07 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 01:07 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:56 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2025 12:49 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Oh, I know! How dare Trump try to end the damn war, right?

As the Canadians would say, take off!

Huh? You saying I can’t have an opinion? I would think Trump would understand Putin now. He has to. So there must be something else going on here. Maybe the defense department has info that China will move on a weakened Russia if Putin is eliminated. There has to be something else here.
Trump has not stopped Putin from doing anything yet. Am I wrong?

Would you rather Trump not even try? I'm being serious here. Trump is the only world leader trying -- actively trying, really -- to bring an end to this damn thing since he returned to the White House, much less at all. Nobody else since the start of this damn war (February 2022) has been willing to step up to the plate and even try, as far as I can tell.

Sure, Putin's an @$shole. I completely agree with you. But the fact remains the two countries will not return to pre-2022 borders, much less pre-2014 borders. I think Zelenskyy realizes that he's going to have to make some land concessions. (That is, giving up territory that Russia already controls.) The map is going to be redrawn, plain and simple.

As to your other point (the one about the PRC), it's a possibility, but Russia is the largest country on the planet in terms of land area. I don't see the ChiComs taking over all of that land. Maybe some of it if Putin is indeed weaker than we laypeople think. But all of it? I'm sorry, but I don't see it at all.

I am all for Trump trying to end this war. I am just highly against rewarding in any way this type of aggression. Putin should have some responsibility for the loss of life and destruction he has caused. I’m not sure what that is. Russia is in dire economic distress. More pressure from the US sanctions wise and Ukraine striking inside Russia could very easily win the war.

I never said the PRC had designs on all of Russia, but there was a plan laid out by a PRC party leader that tried to defect to Russia. They had planned on the possibility of the land east of the Caucasus should Russia crumble. China and Russia have had territorial disputes for centuries and Russia took a lot of land from China during the opium wars. There is no doubting they want that energy rich land back.

In a perfect world---I agree. But this is not a perfect world. Its time to accept the realities on the ground and deal in the art of the possible. If a "land for security" compromise peace deal can be crafted that both sides can live with---then that is the best option for everyone at this point and is far better than fighting on for several more years before realizing the only way to end this is via negotiated settlement. This is a stalemate and its never going to be solved to the complete satisfaction of either party on the battlefield. The killing needs to end sooner rather than later---even if the solution is less than ideal and involves compromise.

The current lines of battle are not real defensible over the long term. It creates a really long boundary. Crimea's boundary is mostly water, so that's easy. Luhansk in the NE being Russian shortens lines. Part of Donetsk is ok. But the two southern oblasts make for a lot longer boundary to defend. Ukraine needs to get those back as part of recognizing Russia's control over Crimea and areas in the east.

(08-18-2025 02:44 PM)Claw Wrote:  ChiComs don't want Russia. They want Taiwan. They might decide to do that now since the U.S. arms reserves are at all time low.

They also want the Russian Far East with its oil. Part of it was taken from China in the 1850s.

That tank with the American and Russian flags looks fake. They're not flapping alike, it must be AI.