(04-18-2025 10:07 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (04-18-2025 08:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: (04-17-2025 09:09 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (04-17-2025 07:31 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (04-17-2025 05:59 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: But the Biden administration who broke the law thousands and thousands of times of day was ok with you? They literally oversaw the world’s largest human smuggling operation in the history of the world. And helped cartels find a new line of business that has endangered hundreds of thousands of more lives. The number of people killed, raped, or had every penny they owned extorted from them is unbearable for me to even think about. You can’t be serious!
The Biden approach to the border was horrendous.
And I (and many others) have zero problem with a far stronger border policy, *and* having a far more active deportation regime for illegal aliens.
When it gets to denying due process in full, that is way beyond the line.
And no, your giant whadabout excuse simply is..... a giant whadabout that attempts to retionalize and normalize the Trump excess.
Sorry, there is no fing 'war' with Venezuela that allows deportation of Venezuelans with no due process -- which is precisely what happened with what appears two planeloads last week. I will grant you if there was a war with Venezuela, the Trump actions under the EAA would have been proper and legal. There isnt. And its not.
it looks like Abrego got caught up in the party that the Trump regime kicked off last week with the EAA. In his case, its a triple problem. In addition to the double problem of a blatant thin ass lie to rationalize insta-depoortations, and the insta-deportations under the EAA occurring with a lack of due process, Abrego has the added problem that he had a pre-existing hold, from a competent previous hearing, barring the actions that happened. That is, he had the results of his previous application of due process washed away automatically. Kind of fing grotesque.
Again -- do it correctly. If the detainees were processed in accordance with the standards of due process, thats great. From the record provided in Boasberg's court, that may not have happened.
From the record in Xinis's court, its pretty obvious that Abrego wasnt afforded *any* due process when his 'do not deport' order was violated from what appears to be on a whim.
Look, this isnt a defense of the Biden border policy. Its stupid to use that as the grand whadabout to justify and rationalize executive overreach and what appears to be a pretty stark violation of due process.
I guess the Republican stance should now be 'Fk due process, its not so great.'
And no, being a champion of due process should not be solely a liberal thing. Infortunately that seems to be the trajectory.
The Aliens Enemy Act doesn’t require an actual declaration of war. Just because it was previously used during war and that war is one of the predicates doesn’t mean war is the only use case. One of the use cases is predatory incursion. Ok, what is predatory incursion?
Please use the actual words, not a cherry picked subset.
The actual words that you speak of in the Act are "invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government"
Quote:A "predatory incursion" refers to a form of attack or invasion, typically associated with military or political actions, that involves the aggressive and often harmful entry of one party into the territory or affairs of another. It's often used in contexts where an alien entity is deemed a threat, like a foreign government or a criminal gang.
And per the act, it is limited to those "by any foreign nation or government".
TdA is not a "foreign nation", nor is it a "foreign .... government".
Nor is it an agent of the above.
Quote:This is the context for the Trump adminstration’s use of the Act. The administration has determined that the Maduro regime intentionally emptied its prisons full of TdA members (a criminal gang and now an FTO) with the explicit intent of sowing chaos in the United States.
And it still doesnt meet the terms of the Act, let alone the 'intent' has pretty much zero basis from what I can see.
And yes, Ive read the EO. Did so a few weeks ago.
Quote:You can take umbrage with that if you want but a) you don’t have access to the classified intelligence used to make that determination
And if it there, it should be released. Otherwise it seems to be made up ****. Trump doesnt have a good record with truth telling if you havent noticed. And is seemingly starting a good record of simply making **** up on the fly to meet his own political ends.
So no, I really dont believe the conspiratorial link provided in the EO.
Quote:and b) it’s no different than Obama declaring ISIS fair game under the Authorization for Use of Military Force that was granted only for the war against al-Qa’ida.
I think it is, since the EAA wasnt invoked for the Obama stuff. I dont have a problem with Trump labeling TdA a terrorist organization -- to the extent I agree with the definition of Terrorist Organization in Bush's EO that is the basis for naming.
That definition is amazingly broad, to the extent it potentially covers any criminal conspiracy for any violent act and has any political bent. In that context, one should designate the Proud Boys as a such an organization. (Which for the record, I dont think would be proper..)
And when designated -- again the EO places the 'members' into the class to be removable. Which implicates some level of due process to remove them.
Quote:The executive branch in both cases determined that it was necessary and applicable to use these authorities to address a threat to the United States and American way of life. But you won’t here this from media that’s become nothing but a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party.
Almost no one supports allowing real alien gangbangers and real alien shitbirds to stay in the United States. And application of due process is a fundamental construct of the foundation of this republic.
No problems getting rid of them -- but do it the right way.
I dont know how alarmed I should be hearing a 20 year veteran of a rather well respected LE arm seemingly accepting, and promoting, a system of summary justice.
Want to add -- thank you for the very informative conversations.
So Trump should release classified information because you don't believe it. This is the most absurd argument I've ever heard. I'm sure they'll get right on that.
The correlation of the Maduro regime to TdA is pretty well established in open source. That's why it meets the definition, so you really don't even need the classified. But I assure you there's more.
"correlation" now means 'by a foreign state or government'? Lol.
Ive seen some doozy stretches in my career, and this is a good one.
Id suggest reading the statutory history of the EAA. Its purpose is startingly clear.
When a government declares war -- invoked.
When a government invades without a declaration of war -- invoked.
When a government or state makes a predatory incursion -- invoked.
Not when a government or state may or may not, perhaps could have a some correlation or random relationship with another group of people.
Its not when a group of people that might have some ties with a government or state 'declare war', its not when a group of people that might have some ties with a government or state perform an actual invasion, its not when a group of people that might have some ties with a government or state might be acting bad ---
The entire predicate is that *a state* or *a government* has performed those acts.
If one wants to invoke a piece of legislation that has amazingly onerous implications to bypassing the typical Constitutional protections -- yeah, they should have to back that. Abso-fing-lutely.
Criminy, next thing using that logic and explanation is that Venezualan members of various law firms should be deported, because their work created a 'correlation' with the current Venezuelan government. Sounds fun.
Three, the implications *of* the EAA is massive. Its one of the very few times that a President may directly detain and remove people on his own authority , and bypassing both legislative protections *and* much of the embedded due process protections.
And a 'correlation' is good enough for you for that. Hey, you are more than free to think that and have that calculus. I think it stupid.
The only other time it was invoked in the modern era, the deportees were *actually* afforded due process. And with *much* better basis to simply ship them out -- as a full blown world wide war had been declared, and was still not ended.
Here, you want to rely on 'hey, Trump doesnt have to show beans' to invoke one of the most powerful impositions on the idea of due process, and you want to foist it off on 'correlations'. Cool cool. Not my cup of tea.
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